Auction 226: WE Ivory 302 with cloth cords - Ended 09-11-16

[TelePlay]

New forum members are very welcome and encouraged to take a guess. After all, there are no wrong guesses, just one lucky one. No one knows the winning bid on any auction until it ends. However, it is important to get your guess in before someone else grabs your guess.

Listed about 8 hours ago in a 7 day auction with no reserve and starting at $4.99 is a very nice Ivory 302 with cloth cords. It is a bit of a project. From the photos, can't tell if the handset is ivory or painted that way - painted seems to be the forum consensus. Don't know because the seller did not provided internal photos. The phone photos show no cracks and two cosmetic stickers. No phone internal photos were posted either. Since listed, the auction attracted one bid from one buyer. I'm sure it will go higher so, once again, who best knows what this item will sell for when the auction ends?

NOTE: we will use a $5 gap rule between guesses again to prevent crowding. As such, keep your guess at least $5 away from prior guesses for this contest.

The seller listed it as a "Vintage Western Electric Bell System F1 Telephone For Parts/restoration" with the item condition as "used" and " - - - " and with the auction listing description saying simply "The phone has wear. For parts or restoration. The phone would go great in a collection. As Is."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222240086498

It's another chance to move up a rung or to get onto the CRPF -> Contest Standings <- list,

     . . . for as twocvbloke said,   ---> "You gotta be in it to win it !!!" "

If you want to see the phones of past Auction Contests, click -> HERE <-


S C O R E B O A R D

$     70.00 - WEBellSystemChristian  ( 7 )
$     80.00 - Jim S.  ( 4 )
$   101.00 - Kenton K  ( 3 )  -> WINNER - Final Selling Price $112.50
$   125.00 - JimH  ( 2 )
$   133.00 - wds  ( 5 )
$   143.00 - Fabius  ( 1 )
$   155.00 - skyrider  ( 6 )
$   165.00 - 19and41  ( 8 )
$   199.99 - TelePlay  ( 9 )


Early Morning Auction Status

09-04-16      Listed        $      4.99
09-05-16       1 bids       $      4.99   ( 1 Bidder )
09-06-16       2 bids       $      6.50   ( 2 Bidders )
09-07-16       2 bids       $      6.50
09-08-16       2 bids       $      6.50
09-09-16       5 bids       $    22.00   ( 4 Bidders )
09-10-16       5 bids       $    22.00
09-11-16     13 bids       $    31.00   ( 5 Bidders )
09-11-16     10 bidders, 18 bids $112.50  Ended at 16:54:46 PDT

[unbeldi]

Did anyone notice how special this set is ?

[Fabius]

To my igorant eyes I see npthing unusual. Looks to me that the handset is painted.

$143

[JimH]

I have an Ivory 354 that came with a (badly chipped) painted-ivory handset, which I replaced with an ivory plastic handset.  I'm guessing this would be less desirable, unless you are going for rarity (I hate that word....let's call it "not usual").  It's nice to see an example, though, of how some of the sets were originally issued.

Put me down for $125

[Kenton K]

Is it not not normal?
For a normal set w/op roper handset, maybe $101?

Kk

[Jim Stettler]

$80.00

[wds]

$133

[Pourme]

$125.00

[skyrider]

$155 Please

[Fabius]

Did anyone notice how special this set is ?

I wait with bated breath to find out what's special.

[TelePlay]

I wait with bated breath to find out what's special.

I took that as a factitious comment. To me, it shouted contest phone because it started low to its final price, no reserve, no BIN and it has inconsistencies that will affect its final price - the inconsistencies make it hard for anyone to "know" what it will sell for and the low price allowed a wide range of guesses (15-20 with a $5 gap), a good "guess the price" phone.

[unbeldi]

Well...   hold your breath no longer... LOL.

Color plastic 300-type sets always used a same-plastic hollow handset when they came out of the factory.
But this one does not have one. It has a painted Bakelite F1 handset that was originally standard black.

A question arises then, about when this handset was paired with the rest of the phone.
Was it just painted and placed on the set by one of the after-market refurbishers, like so many sets that we see with painted fingerwheels and painted housings ?

I think the answer is no.
I think this was assembled this way by a Western Electric shop.

A Bakelite handset, painted or not, could not be placed on a standard colored-plastic 302, because those set have a different switchhook assembly than the black 302s which were designed to carry a black Bakelite handset.  The assembly in colored sets had a special spring installed to adjust the plunger tension so that much lighter plastic handset operated the switchhook reliably.  Technicians were instructed not to mix and match heavy handsets with telephone sets not so modified.  To easily identify sets that had the modification, the mounting code H1, H3, etc., was suffixed with a large dot, a filled circle of red ink, almost the same size as the H marking. The image to the right shows a variety of such markings. When looking closely at the visible marks on the advertised set, I concluded that it did not have a circle/dot. I think it shows H1 -'triple bar'.  H1 is separated from the triple bar symbol by what looks to me like a hyphen, not the typical big dot.  The use of a hyphen is also rather unique, not factory standard.

So, if that is all true up to this point, then one has to conclude that the housing of this set should have the standard switchhook assembly of a black 302 to match the weight of the Bakelite handset.  And it means that this pairing was created in a WECo shop, and is therefore authentic, not an after-market job by whomever, refurbisher or collector, as they wouldn't change the marking.

So, when was this refurbishment or remanufacture performed?
The only sets that I have observed that have this kind of handset, painted Bakelite, on a plastic housing were made in 1955, when the 302 was briefly issued in the 500-set colors using Tenite Butyrate (CAB) plastics. But this set, I think, clearly uses the old Tenite Acetate housing in ivory dashcode 4.  Inspection of the set on the inside might yield more clues possibly dates.

The base plate was made in 1952, it seems, probably mid-year or later, not very early, judging by the 5 holes for the ringer bracket, using the new style.  The dial face plate is II 52 also, so it appears that the set was only refitted with a new handset.  Notice the tightly coiled handset cord, by my observations, most of these with the tight coil were made for the Continentals and Imperials in 1955. On earlier sets, the spring cords had a slightly wider coil diameter.

The handset color is what I would expect on a 1955 Continental or Imperial 202.  That ivory color only matched the base of the ivory Continentals, and did not quite match any of the other ivory hues of the time, at least not when compared today.  Perhaps it did match one of the them when the paint and all sets were new.  Paints and the different substrates can certainly age in rather different ways, which we cannot re-examine now.  The handset and base of the ivory Continentals still look the same color today, by my observations.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I doubt it's a later -50 housing.

The plastic seems lighter and slightly translucent, like -4 Ivory. Unbeldi's -50 set also has a painted Ivory handset, but the plastic seemed much darker than the handset. This set seems to have both colors as the same shade, but the handset looks more opaque than the housing.

I'll guess $70.

[unbeldi]

The plastic seems lighter and slightly translucent, like -4 Ivory.

I believe that is exactly what I stated:

... clearly uses the old Tenite Acetate housing in ivory dashcode 4. 

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I believe that is exactly what I stated:

... clearly uses the old Tenite Acetate housing in ivory dashcode 4. 

Sorry, I scanned through your post too quickly, I thought you were in favor of it being -50.