Correct WE Dials on Color Sets

[poplar1]

Summary--please correct if it's not consistent with your own observations:

1928--B1 handset mounting introduced. B1 handset mounting equipped with 2H dial and E1B handset is coded B1B.

--1929 Catalog #7: Color B1 Handset Mountings and Color E1B handsets...Colors for 2H dials not mentioned--may have had finger wheels and cases painted the same color as phone.

1930--D1 handset mounting and 4H dial introduced. "Internally mounted finger stop."

--1935 Catalog #9: Color 202s with D1 Mounting  have 4H dials. Dial cases and finger wheels painted same color as phone. Color must be specified when ordering dials (4HB-5 for gray, for example).

--4J dials appear by 1937. They have white cases and stainless steel (unpainted) finger wheels.   On 4J-type dials "the finger wheel, finger stop and card holder are of stainless steel...and the dial casing is white enameled." (BSP Section C34.101, Issue 3, 3-15-37. Station dials, 2,4 and 5 Types, Description and Use.  "Reissued to include the 4J type and 5 type dials.")

--5H and 5E dials introduced by 1937. (C34.101 Issue 3)

--#10 Catalog (1939): 5J dials with white enamel cases and stainless steel "finger wheels, finger stops and card holder frames" are shown  for ivory, pekin red, gray green, dark blue and old rose 302s.  302s in old brass, statuary bronze, oxidized silver and dark gold continue to have 5H dials with painted finger wheels.

--1941 BSP shows that the thermoplastic color 302s in ivory, pekin red, gray green, dark blue and old rose now have 5J dials with transparent finger wheels. C30.011, Issue 4, 1-2-41, "Colored Station Sets" shows parts in Table 1. The 1941-1942 color thermoplastic sets all used the P-298941 transparent finger wheel. The parts for painted sets have different part numbers for the dial finger wheels; this seems to indicate 5H dials with the finger wheels still painted to match the painted telephone: P-219932 for old brass, P-219931 for oxidized silver, etc.

It should be noted that the introduction of thermoplastic 302s in ivory, old rose, dark blue, gray green and pekin red meant that "these sets will be furnished in place of the corresponding 'painted' sets, parts of which are listed in Table 1 (b) for maintenance purposes only." However, painted 302s in the metallic colors were still  available until at least 1953. Hand Telephone Sets (202s, 211s) in color were available only on special order as of this issue 4.

WR-C30.011, Issue 1, 8-5-42 indicates that "the manufacture of colored station sets has been discontinued." However, there were still factory stocks including 5H-type in colors -6 (old brass). -7 (statuary bronze), -8 (oxidized silver) and -12 (dark gold). 5J-type dials also remained in stock.

--Production resumes c. 1946 c.1949: 5J dials by 1947, with a new P-372629 transparent finger wheel.                (BSP Addendum C30.011, Issue 1, 12-15-47). Production of plastic color 302s resumes late 1948 for Jan. 1949 issue.     



>--C. 1951: introduction of the new P-344837 finger wheel for 5J dials. This was the first to have a small hole between the 9 and 0 positions. It could be used as a replacement on 4J and 5J dials, by also changing the finger wheel clamp.

--6D dials with white cases and transparent finger wheels appear on color 302s c. 1953-1954. In Dec. 1953, plastic 302s (ivory, old rose, dark-blue, gray-green, and pekin red) as well as painted 302s (oxidized silver, statuary bronze, old brass, and dark gold) are still available. "The 6D dial, which supersedes the 5JB, should be used for replacement purposes on plastic and painted sets except those in the 500 series." C30.011 Issue 6, Dec. 1953

Early 6Ds had P-344837 finger wheels. By IV 54, the P-19B524 finger wheel was introduced for both 6D and 7C dials.

--7C dial with P-19B524 transparent finger wheel c.1954-1965 for 500-series phones. As of Dec. 1953, only ivory, green, brown and beige sets were to have matching dials. (Production of 500 sets in brown, beige, yellow and blue started in 1954.)

--Continentals in 302 colors and Imperials are made from used 202s c. 1955. They have 4J or 5J dials, with either stainless steel or transparent finger wheels; or 6D dials with transparent finger wheels.

--9C dial 1965-1973 (color code no longer shown after 1968?)

--9CA dial 1973-1986

[JimH]

I have a 1937 factory painted Ivory 202 with an E1 handset.  Mine has a #4 dial with a clear finger wheel.  I've seen others (I believe Dennis has one) with an aluminum or stainless finger wheel.  I'm assuming mine was replaced later with a clear one.

[poplar1]

Is your dial a 4J or 4H? Are all the parts dated 1937?

[Sargeguy]

I have a green Continental from 1955.   They painted the #6 housing white instead of using a 6J.  The spider for the fingerwheel is the type used for closed plastic fingerwheels.  Apparently updated when the original dial went kablooey.

[unbeldi]

I have a green Continental from 1955.   They painted the #6 housing white instead of using a 6J.  The spider for the fingerwheel is the type used for closed plastic fingerwheels.  Apparently updated when the original dial went kablooey.

The upgrade from a 5J to No.6 dials for the color sets is a 6D.  The 6D had the housing painted white.

There is a 6J, but for other purposes, with a different switch arrangement.
There is also a black 6D-3 used for hangup type mountings, also -41 and -61 exist.

[Sargeguy]

Actually under the magnifying glass it does appear to be a D.  The 6A is blacked out and it was re-designated 6D.  The white paint is chipping off revealing black underneath.

I was also wrong about the spider, which matches one on another 6D, although a third 6D has the earlier style found on the 5J.

[JimH]

Is your dial a 4J or 4H? Are all the parts dated 1937?

All of the parts are dated first quarter, 1937, it is a 4H dial (I had to open it up to look), and the handset is a brown bakelite E1 painted ivory.

[poplar1]

This certainly doesn't follow the script: the dial is stamped 4H yet it has a white case like a 4J. The finger wheel, however, may have been added later since it has the pin hole between 9 and 0. This is actually the third generation transparent finger wheel, introduced sometime after 1950.

(1941) The P-298941 transparent finger wheels found on early 302s (5J dials after 1940) are thicker and have a cross-shaped finger wheel clamp. The number card has to be inserted with the finger wheel in place.

(1946-1952) The  P-372629 transparent finger wheels found on most 5J dials resemble yours, except that there is no  hole for removing the finger wheel. Rather, a flat tool is placed between the finger wheel and number plate. .

(1952?) P-344837 has a hole between the 9 and 0. (The kit including finger wheel and other piece parts is coded P-43A212.)

1953-1965) The P-19B524 finger wheel on your dial is the same one was used on 6D and 7C dials. It also fits 4-type and 5-type dials when installed with the correct adapter.

(1959-1986) P-11E007 --used on 8A Princess dial from 1959 and on 9C dials (500, 554)  from 1964 or 1965.


Edited with additional information from Addendum C30.011, Issue A, NYTel, 5/31/54.

[Dennis Markham]

This phone I purchased from long-time collector Bob Loeser a number of years ago.  It appears to be all from the 2nd quarter of 1937.  These are "file photos".  I'd have to open everything up to match dates, but I'm sure it's all consistent.  The bottom is Ivory suede.  The celluloid is in rough shape, but original.  The dial is a 4J.  The handset is painted brown Bakelite.

A couple of photos.........

[JimH]

Thanks, Dennis, for the pictures.  I purchased mine from Bob Loeser also, around the same time.  I remember the auction for yours.  Your finger wheel on this looks stainless (opposed to aluminum), can you tell?

[Dennis Markham]

Jim, I'm pretty sure it is stainless steel.

[poplar1]

This 4J dial has a stainless steel finger wheel.
D1 II 37
4J  IV 37--white case and unpainted stainless steel finger wheel; stainless card holder; 149B number plate
E1E Brown Bakelite
F1 transmitter 4/37
H3C-4  handset cord I 49
D4U-4  mounting cord 48

The phone was apparently refurbished or repaired in 1949.