Hello:
I came into possession of an AE40. Looks good overall, dials out, receives calls, a bit "crackly" so might need a bit of contact cleaning. One problem right off the bat though - it won't ring.
As stated before, I am new to this, so question to the forum - what should I start looking at first? I have took a picture of the ringer (stamped 440C at the base) - is this by any chance the dreaded "frequency tuned" ringer? If so - what are my options? Are there other ringers available for it?
Advice and pointers appreciated.
Dmitri
That's a 33.3 Hz frequency ringer.
It's stated on the enclosed wiring diagram and the physical parts of the ringer (plate attached to a reed, large hammer and coil label marked 33.3 Hz) confirm that.
This is a 33.3~ (Hertz) ringer. You may want to look for a Straight Line ringer.
Darn... Thank you, this is what I suspected :-\ ... Quick search on eBay did not yield any matches, but I will keep looking.
Searching the forum, found an older post by you, poplar1 - is this the type I have to look for? Or are there any alternatives?
Quote from: Fennec on August 21, 2017, 09:34:32 PM
Darn... Thank you, this is what I suspected :-\ ... Quick search on eBay did not yield any matches, but I will keep looking.
Searching the forum, found an older post by you, poplar1 - is this the type I have to look for? Or are there any alternatives?
Yes, most old straight line ringers have that bias spring.
Frequency ringers never have that spring.
Also note that the straight line ringer clapper wire is attached to a plate held by a pivot point. The AC moves the plate, pivots on the pivot point moving the clapper to strike the gongs.
Frequency ringers have that large plate attached to a thin but wide metal reed to do the "pivoting" and the plate with the reed and the clapper size and position create the frequency at which the clapper rings the gongs.
Might have the wrong terms for the parts here but the idea is a plate attached to a metal reed vs a pivot point when looking at a ringer.
Since the frequency of that ringer isn't terribly far off from the normal 20 Hz ringing frequency, you can probably make the ringer work to some extent by adjusting the position of the clapper and rotating the gongs so that they are closer to the clapper. Otherwise, finding a replacement AE ringer should not be very difficult. Steve Hilsz (http://navysalvage.com/ (http://navysalvage.com/)) likely has some.
Larry
Yes you might be able to get it to ring a little bit by misadjusting it. Otherwise the choices are to replace it with a Straight Line ringer, note the one posted above has S.L. where yours has 33.3~.
One other option is to keep it original, disconnect your frequency ringer and use a separate SL extension ringer. This way you can have as many frequency ringer equipped phones as you want and still hear the phone ringing.
Terry
Why did this particular model of AE, seem to have a very high level of Frequency ringers.
D/P
Quote from: Dan/Panther on August 22, 2017, 12:37:12 PM
Why did this particular model of AE, seem to have a very high level of Frequency ringers.
D/P
Considering when the AE40 and 50 were produced, from about 1939 to 1955, that was an era of tremendous phone growth in America, especially the postwar years. I know that's when my parents and grandparents first got a phone and they were both on party lines as were my aunt and uncle across the road from where I live now. I still have my aunt's phone with the frequency ringer. Almost everyone in my community had a party line phone except for the Clerk of Court who lived across the road, who needed a private line for privacy reasons. He also hosted the neighborhood phone company junction box on his property across the road from where I grew up, next to a small access road. That's where all our phone lines joined up to the central office. Phone company trucks were out there all the time.
With the great expansion happening, the party line only used one central office phone line shared between four people, so fewer line pairs were used on the trunk line to the CO. Only the frequency that applied to the called party was sent when their number was dialed and the corresponding phone rang. There were no extension phones in our houses during that time. Just the one black phone. My parents were very frugal and kept the party line until they did away with them, about 1983 or so, when the push was on to buy your own phone, which required a private line.
I also remember the way we called each other on that party line, with a special four-digit number. It would ring our phone and then the other party's phone in alternating style until they picked up. I could hear my grandmother's phone next door on summer days with the windows open and it rang alternately with ours when we called her, and vice-versa.
That's why you'll find many AE40s, 50s, 80s and 90s with frequency ringers. They were often located in rural areas served by independent telcos and party lines were very common in the 1950s and 60s until supply (as in phone lines) caught up with demand.
OK, per recommendation, have ordered a replacement S.L. ringer from Steve Hilsz (thank you Larry for the pointer). This should cure the problem, thank you everyone for the input.
- Dmitri
I remember our neighbor was our party line. You could hear them periodically when you were on the phone.
My question about frequency ringers on many AE phones, why didn't the WE phones have them as common also ?
D/P
I do have an Working AE40 Straight line ringer on its base if anyone is interested PM me....Doug
As soon as you sell it....you will need it!
Benny...you know that's true ::)...Doug
Quote from: Dan/Panther on August 23, 2017, 11:47:33 AM
My question about frequency ringers on many AE phones, why didn't the WE phones have them as common also ?
WE did it a different way than AE. My maternal grandmother was on a Southern Bell two-party line and her number card said "Answer _2_ Rings." One ring meant the other party next door and she didn't answer. Both parties used regular straight line ringers and they could also have extension phones. It was a variation on the old magneto system, which is what they had previous to the 500 sets, as to different parties having different numbers of rings. I don't know what the limit was on the numbers of rings, but would guess 3 or 4 at the most.
Then there was the 501 with the tube in it, used in the 1950s and the tip and ring parties and all that "semiselective" mumbo-jumbo that luckily we don't have to understand today. Here is a good explanation of 306 and 5306 party line WE phones by Unbeldi. All those phones used standard ringers, or most of them did, and achieved the ringing by selective means.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12416.msg130835#msg130835
There were also the WE phones made for independent telcos, the WE591 and 593, made without a ringer. They often have frequency ringers installed. But they don't say "Bell System" on the phone anywhere if the original plastics are present since they were installed on non-Bell lines. ITT-Kellogg also made them.
Quote from: jsowers on August 23, 2017, 04:57:21 PM
WE did it a different way than AE. My maternal grandmother was on a Southern Bell two-party line and her number card said "Answer _2_ Rings." One ring meant the other party next door and she didn't answer. Both parties used regular straight line ringers and they could also have extension phones. It was a variation on the old magneto system, which is what they had previous to the 500 sets, as to different parties having different numbers of rings. I don't know what the limit was on the numbers of rings, but would guess 3 or 4 at the most.
Those "answer 2 rings" and "answer 1 ring" cards were usually on lines designed for 4 (or more) parties, even if there were fewer
than 4 assigned at any given time.
Southern Bell "2-party selective" lines on dial c.o. did not require ringing codes: one party's ringers were wired tip to ground, and the other party's ringers were wired ring to ground.
Southern Bell "semi-selective" 4-party lines, did require coded ringing. These did not have tubes. The 2 tip parties rang together, and the 2 ring parties rang together. So one long ring or two short rings on tip to ground, or one long or two shorts on the ring side to ground.
From my understanding, party lines in general were much less common in Bell System territory than in areas served by independent telcos. By the time dial service was becoming standard Bell was already phasing out party line service. That's why party line selective ringers are so much less common in WE dial equipment.
Quote from: mentalstampede on August 24, 2017, 09:01:33 AM
From my understanding, party lines in general were much less common in Bell System territory than in areas served by independent telcos. By the time dial service was becoming standard Bell was already phasing out party line service. That's why party line selective ringers are so much less common in WE dial equipment.
And that Bell had most of the large metropolitan areas where as Telco's that used AE and other non Bell manufacturers equipment were primarily the smaller more rural areas that were easier to serve by use of party lines.
Terry
Quote from: mentalstampede on August 24, 2017, 09:01:33 AM
From my understanding, party lines in general were much less common in Bell System territory than in areas served by independent telcos. By the time dial service was becoming standard Bell was already phasing out party line service. That's why party line selective ringers are so much less common in WE dial equipment.
All that is certainly not true.
The Bell System had just as many party line customers, if not more than the independents. After WW-II, and well into the 1950s, most newly installed stations probably were party line installations, as the build-out of the outside plant lagged behind demand for telephone service. The AT&T archive site has nice documentary/educational films online about party line service.
Western Electric used different selective ringing systems than the independents telcos. The Bell SYstem abandoned harmonic ringing at least by the 1910s in favor of other systems. The frequency ringers in the WECo catalogs are for sale to independents.
Even with dial systems standard equipment, many customers were still on party lines.