https://youtu.be/wf0UoGo1kpo
I came across this a few years ago, and found it very interesting. With some research this is something that could be built for controlling a single slot phone.
Or even adapted to use for a three slot.
Some of the methods are to me a bit stone age and could be changed to work by other methods.
I have been wanting to do a simpler version for my single slot. Just have not really got anything going yet.
But this if just to give others ideas to explore in payphone coin relays.
Years back I had one that used 40 volts to control the coin relay. I just had to stretch the spring a tad for it to work.
And it did so flawlessly.
All fine... I already made a controller that works with a "C" series ground start coin first phone. Also works with 3 slot phones. Working on refining it further.
Here is an article by Stan showing how to build a simple controller:
https://atcaonline.com/controller.html
Jim S.
Text from article:
Unlike the first model, I'm not building these for sale or trade. This design must be simple enough for any collector to build.
The new design has the following criteria.
1- It must be as simple as possible to build.
2- It must be as inexpensive as possible to build.
3- It must be as small as possible so it will fit inside the payphone.
4- It must be powered by tip and ring voltage. No connection to the AC line.
5- It must be built with parts that are readily available.
6- It must make the payphone 'coin first'. No dial tone until the initial deposit is made. Like in the 'good old days'.
7- It will only return or collect the initial deposit. One or the other, not both! Your choice.
8- To meet the first three criteria a coin must be deposited in order to answer an incoming call. The coin will be treated like an initial deposit for an outgoing call when the phone is hung up.
9- It must work with Western, Northern and Automatic Electric payphones as long as they have a single coil coin relay.
10- If the payphone already has a single coil coin relay the only wiring changes will be the connections to the controller.
11- Modification of the coin relay is OK, as long as its original appearance isn't changed.
12- The main purpose of this controller is to animate the payphone's coin mechanism. Really making the phone into - A PAY PHONE!
Hi Jim Stettler,
thanks for sharing. I got some ideas.
thanks
VB
Quote from: Key2871 on December 23, 2018, 04:48:27 PM
I remember that article well. But it was all the modification to the coin relay that I didn't like. So I just went with my own design. Also using the 48volt line power to operate the relay.
Only thing I did to insure operation was a plug a small blade flat screw driver in the center of the spring that aided the reset of the relay. Just a simple small twist to open the coil a little, and it worked like a charm. My out of pocket expense was a buck for the board fifty cents for the transistors used in the timer circuit. The other parts I got from scrap electronics including two dip relays. But I hadn't tried a timer chip as Stan did. But basically the same circuit. But I didn't have to modify the relay at all, every thing was the same original as installed. The circuit was just slightly larger to have room for the dip relays. It all fit right in the top next to the coin relay. Even with the upper removed, it was hardly noticeable.
I understand what you mean regarding the coin relay, I would buy a spare relay to modify if that was an issue in my application
.
The nice thing about this design is it is a complete design along with a parts list and board layout. The fact that Stan designed it to meet the stated objectives helps keep it easy.
There are several "free" controller circuit design that have been shared over the years. Most/all of these have included parts list and a breadboard or PC layout. There were a few kits offered as well.
Jim S.
Most seem to use a capacitor to "kick" the coin relay
It would not be 'VoIP' that has low-voltage it would be your ATA. Some are better then others,
I am currently selling a whole asterisk PBX and a good ATA for $35 you can see my thread about that in 'Classifieds' (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=21604.0)
This is not the BEST ATA I have but it does have High ring voltage and supports pulse dialing.
I do have an ATA that I can throw anything at it and it just works. That is the Cable Companies ATA/"EMTA"
It has 5 REN, Supports Pulse dialing, Works with all of my vintage telephone equipment, It's just an amazing ATA I love it! I just wish you could buy it standalone not locked to the Cable Companies Digital Landline service. But I do also have a GXW-4008 and a Cisco "Voice Gateway" That does everything the Cable Companies ATA is.
Basically, if you have an expensive ATA stuff is a lot easier.
Well I'm currently not spending money on c net anything.
I am aware that you are looking for people who have the desire to join your group, or what ever.
I'm not interested. Or I would have contacted you before.
I don't see any negative comments to your schematic. I was looking forward to seeing more on it. Sorry if you got some bad responses.
I have been quietly reading this thread too. Was hoping to see photos as it progressed and see if it might work on a Bell phone in the UK. :)
Thanks. I am always interested in finding new things & learning about them.
I will post updates : update, I just got closer to a CF DTF circuit tonight. So this is looking better everyday.
And the relay will not have to be modified to operate.
Hang in there it's getting closer now.
OK guys and gals, it came to me the other day, when I was back at my desk thinking about this control circuit that it's been a long time since I was doing mine. And a lot of dust was all over those memories of design and build. Well it also came to mind that some may be thinking that I am going to design a circuit board for my newest and most likely last circuit.
Because, like Stan became to realise, this is work, and a lot of it. So I am very close with finalizing my design, and on paper it's going to operate very much like Stan's high test model. But the thing is, you have to build it from scratch.
Yes, I will provide a schematic diagram for it, but that's all.
So for those who don't want to try it, run now. It really isn't that hard, but for those who don't do this,even for fun hobby they will not be very happy with it. And keep in mind to design a circuit board would be even worse, mostly for me.
I did it once before, when in the ATCA, I made and designed a circuit board for a network that would fit in the very top of the payphone, a three slot. This was back when I was brand new to these, and didn't know where to find the correct subset. So the terminal board in the back board was copied to make a network so you pick up the handset and talk or call out. Stan wanted me to make him twenty five of them, I said not likely because I was working full time and parts came from an ITT427 PC network, and removing parts from their board was hard enough, but to do twenty five? Yikes.
And this is before I made a control circuit to operate the relay, and other functions. Anyway, I'll provide a place to find the parts required, but you get to solder then to what's called a perf board, called that because it is, full of holes with copper spots on the back to solder components onto, then small wires have to be run to connect the dots so to speak.
So if this is not your cup of tea, sorry, this is the best I can do.
But keep this in mind, the circuit will not provide dial tone until a coin is deposited, that in turn starts a timer circuit.
Then after about 57 seconds, the collect turns on so when the receiver goes on hook, the coin is collected. If the handset is returned before the time is up for collect, it will return the coin. No modification is required to the coin relay.
When the phone remceves an incoming call, pick the handset up as the phone is ringing so you can talk. Just as it is with Stan's control, that others are making. The phone will not have to be changed at all. Only for phones with single coil relays though.
And can work with single slot sets as well, the only change is the relay, needs to be changed to a three slot coin relay.
This needs to be done so the contacts that are on those can operate the circuit.
So far I can't do anything about that otherwise.
But a hook switch contact may be needed for the circuit control, to operate the power to the circuit. I am still looking for another option to do this. Other than adding another switch to the hook switch to operate when the handset is removed or returned. If anyone has another way, please let me know. But other than those couple things, the phones stays the same. The circuit will provide the Power to operate the coin relay, collect or return. I'm still in the process of getting everything on paper and laid out in easy to understand terms. It may sound difficult, but if you're a hobbyist this would be considered moderate and not hard.
The circuit would fit in side any payphone, and quad wire using Red & Green wires for ring and tip, with yellow and black wires used for powering the circuit.
I'm on a tight financial situation, so I get parts as I can.
Any questions about this please ask. Thanks, Ken
Thanks Ken. I have no idea how to design a circuit so my hat's off to you. If it was easy we would not even be having this discussion, everyone would do it. I appreciate the effort. I have not done anything with a circuit board since I was in the Navy, approximately 40 years ago! I look forward to figuring out how it works and the challenge of building it. If there is anything I can do to help, just let me know. Thanks again!
Ken
I only have one question. Who are you?
For 40 years I owned an electronics manufacturing and design business. My main customer was Federal law enforcement.
I had a dark room and the ability to manufacture printed circuit boards from a taping to a drilled and populated board in 2 hours all done on my premises. Depending on how many employees I put to work I could have 25 of any board used as a telephone network built in a matter of minutes.
I have a feeling you are confusing me with a guy from California who sold 3-slots on Ebay. Mostly junk AEs! He approached me to build networks for him. My answer to him was the same that I gave anyone who wanted me to do work for them. "The only products I sell are from my product line". I don't design or manufacture for anyone else and I only sell my products. I don't represent other manufacturers.
So once again I ask the question. Who are you?
Stan
Hey Harry, I just wanted everyone to know what is going on, and know my progress.
Stan, I have not had a conversation with you for years. Last one was thirty plus ago, about the controller I was offering in the club. I was a member for a long time. #2633 and the first time I heard from you was after my article about the network circuit I made for my NE 233 and you wanted to know if I would make some for you. I declined because I was working full time, but I did want to let others know what was needed, I even made trace drawings for it. After I made my own circuit board and etched it, drilled etc.
You told me about your controller, the first one in the tan box. I was talking to you about how I used a power supply that put out 45 VDC, and transistor circuit and relays to change the polarity on the coin relay. I didn't know that much about electronics, still don't. But I like tinkering and trying to make what I did, better. It's been a long time since I was doing that, and as mentioned, a lot of dust was on those memories.
I thought I could do some things, but I later realised it wouldn't work that way. But you were in NY, had your own electronics business, that's when you came into doing controllers and things like that. Long time, a lot of years past. I'm still tinkering because it helps keep boredom down.
Quote from: Key2871 on January 02, 2019, 11:12:54 AM
...if this is not your cup of tea, sorry, this is the best I can do...
Well, for me the mud is clearing a little. I used to C.A.D. PCBs in a previous life and have the boards printed up. Before the days of surface mount I was taught to read components etc and solder, and made up many a board. Still something I love to do although I don't have a to need to these days.
I'm finding this a very interesting thread. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Using CAD sounds fun, but I'm sure you really have to know what it is your doing. If I were to design a PCB for my controller, that could take a while, but the board is apt to be much larger than what I have in mind.
Doing it on a perf board it will be a lot easier to stash in a pay phone. In my three slot, I had three stand offs that bolted into the bucket next to the relay, so it was pretty much out of sight even with the upper off.
And I like doing things that help other people out, gives me a good feeling to do that.
And I enjoy doing something durring the winter.
It's way better, and safer than slipping on ice in my yard.
Did that yesterday, cleaning off my truck... Not fun.
Ken
Also working on one to basically make a candlestick with a gray coin collector operate, simple design, insert coin, get dialtone dial.
found using off the shelf parts and some wireing can make this happen for around 100.00. Since the gray station on the candlestick has no relay to fire period, that eliminates that problem of collect or return its always collected, coin first call. Incomming totally allowed.
Inside the coin collector, i chose a 4 channel relay specifically so it would actually allow it to work with stans controller as well, hence puts 1000 ohms on yellow and tip wire once coin deposited (simulating the totalizer)
Parts:
Viking LDB-3
UCTRONICS DC 12V Programmable Multifunction Time Delay Relay Module with Segment LEDs Display & H/L Level Trigger for Smart Home, Automatic Control
LM YN DC 5V 4-Channel Relay Control Module 4CH Relay Module Low Level Trigger With Red and Blue Indicators for Arduino
CHENBO TCRT5000 Infrared Reflective IR Photoelectric Switch Barrier Line Track Sensor Module for Arduino Smart Car w/Cable 3.3V-5V (2 needed)
TMR 1221
Very cool!
If i could get help it should be fairly easy to add another UCTRONICS DC 12V Programmable Multifunction Time Delay Relay Module with Segment LEDs Display & H/L Level Trigger for Smart Home, Automatic Control to control the collect / return, but my biggest issue is the circuit for the coin relay, as said thos this set dont have this issue.
Looks cool Robert, a coin operation circuit can be added along with a timer circuit that kicks a reversing relay when time empires, then a switch needs to trigger the circuit when going on hook.
I had the voltage doubling circuit up at one point, I'll see if I can pull that back up. But depending on the input voltage, the output is much higher, and potentially dangerous.
As I said in my PM to you, I have yet to sit down and draw my diagram for the circuit. Because my kids just went back to school last week, and it's hard to find a quiet place to sit down and draw. Plus it's winter, wet snow falling and oh man that's hard to move. So I hope to feel better enough soon to sit at my desk and do the schematic diagram.
It's not easy getting old... It shucks.
Yeap I know - Im in same boat been working on the 151al with the gray coin collector for months as I only have time here and their.
Picture of initially completed may go for sale now but will not be cheap :)
I'm hoping my circuit will fit into any phone, but without building a prototype it's hard to say. Because this is a lot more complicated than my board years ago..
But I've found taking time to do something, actually makes it better.
Quote from: robert_m on January 09, 2019, 07:56:36 PM
Picture of initially completed may go for sale now but will not be cheap :)
Hi Robert
$$$$$ ? :)
This is it. Volts in 24VAC output 68 VDC.
This is only a half wave DC signal, but it should work, adding a full wave rectifier at the output it will most definitely work.
Remember this is DC VOLTAGE, DO NOT TOUCH ENERGIZED CIRCUITS !! THE RESULTING SHOCK CAN BE LEATHAL.
So exercise extreme care when working with this circuit.
Ken
Well, it's summer again... But the bills keep coming in, need a new AC for the house, but I haven't forgotten about the circuit for the payphone control I still want to complete.
So many distractions kept me away for a long time, again. But I'm going to start my diagram very soon, order parts and build it. That way if there's something that doesn't make the grade I can hopefully fix that then post my results..
Oh, to be young again, just for the energy would be nice...
More to come, hopefully soon.
Yep I have read for years about the coming payphone controllers for years yet here we sit with still only one. Stans
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 06, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
Yep I have read for years about the coming payphone controllers for years yet here we sit with still only one. Stans
You are right Jim, lots of talk and very little action. Stan's works just fine, why try to reinvent the wheel?
Yea, for the first time in months someone has actually responded to my post.
Sorry, but I've been quite busy around home and haven't even given this thought because I posed a couple questions but I never got a responce. So I figured nobody was interested. Time and money is always a problem. It's still freking winter around here, once and a while we're have temps above 50.
I'm still working on fefinments and getting closer.
Yea it's taking forever but again I thought nobody was interested.
You have to understand how it works to build it, and it is clear to me that most don't understand how it works. I have yet to read even the most simple explanation of how a payphone collects a coin or returns it. Or how it detects coin presence. I hope this conversation is dropped because it is a endless circle of nothing. If you are going to build one build it. If not let's not talk about it anymore it's boring.
Well I have explained how it would work, etc etc.
But as far as I'm concerned the rest of you won't.
Done.
It will be mine and mine only. I know it's been a while, but my life is really crazy right now with two kids out of school and I'm trying to keep ahead of too many things.
You know Jim, from the very first time I was told by Paul Vaverchak to give you a call and talk with you about a couple things I had questions about, you were nothing short of rude. I made the remark I know you do this all day and your probably tired and don't want to talk about it.. You came back and said I love what I do.
I do it because I like what I do.
So why the attitude? I have never talked to you before that day and we never had any run ins. Nor have I talked with you since. Because your not a nice person.
You came across to me like I was a little pea and I'm wasting your time.
At that point I had a working controler for my three slot. And it worked great.
But you kept telling me that I couldn't because I needed a central office to make the phone work.
But since then a lot of people have made their payphone work with out a central office.
And it wasn't anythanks to you.
I have no clue why you are still so arrogant towards me, but I've had my fill I will not ever offer anything here again.
Even when I was part of the ATCA I had a few people such as you to try to run me over with their bus. Well I left there, and I can do it here as well.
All I have ever wanted to do is offer up my experience nothing like yours Mr Engle, but none the less I have.
Only to meet up with some of the more arrogant folks here.
I just have one thing to say... What did I ever do to you guys?
See ya. Delete this whole thread.
Quote from: Payphone installer on May 17, 2020, 08:37:20 PM.
...I hope this conversation is dropped because it is a endless circle of nothing. If you are going to build one build it. If not let's not talk about it anymore it's boring.
In my opinion any developments are to be encouraged, whether on this topic or another.
Positive results or not - either way it helps others to move forward in their experiments.
Besides the learning process, and the fun/interest of experimenting, we are not all in a position - for whatever reason - to purchase another which may be available.
Let's keep on caring and sharing.
:)
Great that someone with more knowhow about electronics still are working on this. So far my own one are working on my AE120B
Working like this:
-You cant dial before you have inserted one coin.
When you hang up it will collect or return depending on if the party answered.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11987.msg127999#msg127999
dsk
As explained before, my controller will give dial tone in one of two ways, first, but won't dial out unless a coin is present. Or after the coin is present.
In CF mode it will allow you to dial a number and after a short time if the receiver is hung up the coin will return. If off hook for a longer period and the coin will be collected.
I have a proto type working fine, and I'm still working when I get the chance, to refine things a bit better.
And answer on an in coming call.
But the impatient ones have now ticked me off to the point that I wont try to offer my help here.
They just want to point fingers and make snide remarks about what I post or say or don't.
It's unfortunate that there has to be such people as that in this hobby. But it's been that way for years. Some have up and left, others still remain.
As I've said before I just wanted to offer up some help.
But I see that some are still suffering from cranial rectosa. So I'm done.
Let the "experts prevail".
I am sorry if what I wrote did offend you, that was far from my intention. Please keep on the good work. If some of us rush a little, others should not suffer from that.
dsk
No I didn't, the post that broke my back was from pay phone installer.
Nobody knows what I'm going through right now.
I'm stretched to the max, and I'm supposed to be retired. But it seems no matter how hard I try to get things accomplished, I can't make anyone happy.
But since last night I've got several PMs that are positive and help me feel a little better.
So you're post was in no way offensive.