D1 202 with 634BA-3 Subset Troubleshooting

[Haf]

In French, "je donne ma langue au chat" means "ok, I give up."
So, when John F. Kennedy visited Berlin, did he say "I'm a Berliner" or "I'm a jelly doughnut"?
("Ich bin ein Berliner." )

I'm aware of the meaning of that phrase  Historically it is possible a combination of two phrases, ,,jeter sa langue aux chiens" (like Charles Baudelaire wrote 1869 to his friend Asselineau: ,, Le mal persiste. Et le médecin a prononcé le grand mot : hystérie. En bon francais: je jette ma langue aux chiens." (Charles Baudelaire, Correspondance, Band 2, Calmann-Lèvy, 1878, S. 56-57) and ,,mettre quelque chose dans l'oreille du chat"- to put something into the cat's ear. I personally think it's way nicer to give it to the cat to keep it and give it back when needed than to give it to eat to the dog- how brutal.

And yes, no jelly donough. I've seen his original manuscript (or a facsimile) at the "Haus der Geschichte Bonn", German National Museum. He wrote it like he wanted to pronounce, see picture.

Sorry for off topic!

Haf

[poplar1]

OK, anyone else care to jump in?

PROC 2 was just a means to test the E1 handset with assumed good 101A IND, assumed good 195A capacitor....and with the D1 base, dial, mounting cord in another room!

So, do you have a working F1 or G1/G3 handset with a known good handset cord?

[GLadstone]

Hi poplar1,

PROC 2 was just a means to test the E1 handset with assumed good 101A IND, assumed good 195A capacitor....and with the D1 base, dial, mounting cord in another room!

Ah!

So, do you have a working F1 or G1/G3 handset with a known good handset cord?

I do!

And, I have good news to share:

The phone works as expected when all the mounting cord connections are bypassed!

I think we may have narrowed down the issue to something in the mounting cord and/or its modular plug connection in the subset.

(More details below.)

---

Quick follow-up question:

Is it recommended to replace all the cords (subset, handset, and line) at the same time, or just as needed?

(Looking at mazada_matt's Old Phone Works website, I see that subset cords can be purchased separately or as a package.)

---

Process:

Since we've previously found some success when we disconnected the red conductor in the mounting cord, I'd been wondering:

What would happen if all four mounting cord connections were bypassed-- Perhaps there is a weak link in the modular connection jack inside the subset?

As luck would have it, I recently changed the handset cord on my 554 wall phone, so I happen to have a four conductor cord that could be used to bypass the mounting cord.



And, with the phone set-up like this, everything works!

I can make & receive calls, as well as hear and be heard through the E1 handset!

And, I couldn't wait to share the good news with you!

Thank you again for all your assistance troubleshooting this phone!

Take care,
GLadstone

[poplar1]

The phone works as expected when all the mounting cord connections are bypassed!

I think we may have narrowed down the issue to something in the mounting cord and/or its modular plug connection in the subset.

---

Since we've previously found some success when we disconnected the red conductor in the mounting cord, I'd been wondering:

What would happen if all four mounting cord connections were bypassed-- Perhaps there is a weak link in the modular connection jack inside the subset?

As luck would have it, I recently changed the handset cord on my 554 wall phone, so I happen to have a four conductor cord that could be used to bypass the mounting cord.

I thought you already had 2 new cords (1/4 mod. line cord from subset to wall + spade-to-spade hardwired mounting cord from the D1 mounting to subset). I never saw (or imagined) the 623D modular connector lurking inside the subset so that a 1/4 mod. (spade to mod.) 4-conductor *line cord* could be used as a mounting cord! Why not use a 4-conductor spade to spade mounting cord?

Now that the 623D and the spade to modular cord are no longer connected, please plug the unused cord into the disconnected 623D and measure continuity of each conductor. Is there continuity, for example, yellow to yellow -- or is it rather yellow to black? Green to green, or is it green to red?

The 623D is designed for sets such as 510, 2511,etc., with full modular (mod to mod) cords, the plugs of which are mirror images. If a wall jack is BK-R-GN-Y, then the 623D is Y-GN-R-BK.

Say you want to keep using a 500D with color matching hard-wired cords.  If you install a biscuit jack on the end of the spade-tipped cord (so that a mod-to-mod cord can then be used between the biscuit jack and the wall), then you connect the red wire from the 500 to the green terminal in the biscuit jack, and the green (and yellow if the black ringer wire is still on G) to the red terminal.

[GLadstone]

Hi poplar1,

More good news to report:
It seems the 623D modular connector reversed the yellow and black connections in the mounting cord, so switching their locations in the subset results in a working phone!

(More details below.)

---

I thought you already had 2 new cords (1/4 mod. line cord from subset to wall + spade-to-spade hardwired mounting cord from the D1 mounting to subset). I never saw (or imagined) the 623D modular connector lurking inside the subset so that a 1/4 mod. (spade to mod.) 4-conductor *line cord* could be used as a mounting cord! Why not use a 4-conductor spade to spade mounting cord?

The phone was advertised as having replacement cords-- I do not know when they were replaced or why the mounting cord was connected through the 623D modular connector...

That said, I can imagine a couple reasons it may have been set-up this way:
-At the time the cords were replaced, these may have been the parts on hand.
-Or, perhaps a previous owner found it easier to be able to quickly separate the phone and subset for display or travel.

---

To answer your question:

Why not use a 4-conductor spade to spade mounting cord?

I would love to use a four conductor spade to spade mounting cord to more directly connect the phone and subset, but I do not currently have any extra four conductor line / mounting cords to use (so, I've added one to my wish list!).

---

Now that the 623D and the spade to modular cord are no longer connected, please plug the unused cord into the disconnected 623D and measure continuity of each conductor. Is there continuity, for example, yellow to yellow -- or is it rather yellow to black? Green to green, or is it green to red?

With the spade to modular mounting cord connected into the 623D modular connector (and all spade tips disconnected from the phone and subset), continuity exists as follows:

Yellow (Mounting Cord) --> Black (623D)
Black (Mounting Cord) --> Yellow (623D)
Green (Mounting Cord) --> Green (623D)
Red (Mounting Cord) --> Red (623D)

---

The 623D is designed for sets such as 510, 2511,etc., with full modular (mod to mod) cords, the plugs of which are mirror images. If a wall jack is BK-R-GN-Y, then the 623D is Y-GN-R-BK.

Say you want to keep using a 500D with color matching hard-wired cords.  If you install a biscuit jack on the end of the spade-tipped cord (so that a mod-to-mod cord can then be used between the biscuit jack and the wall), then you connect the red wire from the 500 to the green terminal in the biscuit jack, and the green (and yellow if the black ringer wire is still on G) to the red terminal.

Fascinating-- Thank you for this information!

Given this information and the results of the above continuity tests, I reversed the yellow and black wires from the 623D connector / mounting cord in the subset:

Original Locations:
Black --> BK (wood block)
Yellow --> L2Y (101A coil)

Moved To:
Yellow --> BK (wood block)
Black --> L2Y (101A coil)



With the phone set-up this way, everything works as expected:
I can make and receive calls as well as hear and be heard through the E1 handset!

---

As a double check, I re-connected the 623D / mounting cord wires back to their original positions:
Black --> BK (wood block)
Yellow --> L2Y (101A coil)

And, switched the red and green line cord connections on the 101A coil in the subset:

Original Locations:
Red --> L1 (101A coil)
Green --> L2Y (101A coil)

Moved To:
Green --> L1 (101A coil)
Red --> L2Y (101A coil)

With the phone set-up like this, the original symptoms were back (busy signal, etc.).

Re-connecting the red and green line cord back to their original positions and again switching the yellow and black 623D / mounting cord wires, the phone is once again working as expected!

---

It seems we can now mark this as "solved!"

For this particular phone, with the spade to modular mounting cord connected through the 623D modular connector in the subset, reversing the black and yellow 623D wires in the subset allows the phone to work as expected:



---

Thank you again for all your help troubleshooting this phone and restoring it back to working condition!

Take care,
GLadstone

[poplar1]

Swapping Red and Green of the line cord on L1 and L2 would not have any effect.
The idea was to swap red and green on R and GN output of 101A IND....

However, if your VOM indicates no reversal of the red and green (as measured continuity from red wire of the 4-conductor mtg. cord, thru its modular plug, to the red lead of the 623D), and the same for green (but not for yellow and black), then I don't know how this is possible unless someone moved the leads around inside the 623D.....but if so, why didn't he also move the yellow and black inside the 623D?

Just wondering why you swapped red and green on L1 and L2 in any case. This adds yet another variable (even if it has no effect) if you are trying to solve the original problem.

[Sargeguy]

This phone again! It was working right before Christmas on my Panasonic 308 or 616.  I had a working display at a holiday sale at my wife's jewelry studio.  It originally had a 584A, and I recall I was having trouble with that set up.  I did have to swap out the 584 for this subset, which I thought would be more reliable.  That seemed to solve the problem at the time. I boxed it up after the show and it was sitting in my basement until I sent it to you.  This would seem to indicate that it is an intermittent problem like a short rather than a wiring or component failure.  I think the most likely suspect is the bullet transmitter or the modular jack.

[poplar1]

At least one problem is the fact that someone used a 1\4 modular cord as a mounting cord, along with a 623D4 -- rather than  D4U spade-to-spade cord, but then did not compensate by transposing the yellow and black, and also the red and green, leads of the 623D4.

This would be the same as if you did use the correct D4U cord, but connected the mounting cord inside the subset as follows:

Red to GN on ind. coil
Green to R on induction coil

Black to L2 ind coil
Yellow to BK on terminal block with black capacitor wire.

In the future, please use a spade-,to-spade mounting cord, OR, rearrange the wires inside the 623D, unless you connect the red wire of the 623 to GN, green to R, yellow to BK, and black to L2, along with a note to the next poor guy explaining why all the wires seem to be going to the wrong place.

[poplar1]

Did you get a chance to reverify that the red and green of the 623D (not of the cord going to tne wall from L1 and L2-Y) are continuous with the red and green, respectively, inside the D1?

If yellow and black are reversed: PERM (permanent signal=can't hang up=line busy

If red and green (only) are reversed: excessive sidetone (hear yourself) AND noticeable click in your ear if you mash down the plunger slowly. (If wired correctly, there should be no audible click when hanging up a Western Electric 202, 102, 302, 20-AL, 50-AL, 51-AL, 151-AL, or 500!)

[GLadstone]

Hi poplar1,

I appreciate your thorough approach to troubleshooting!

Lots of information to share, so I'll break this up into two replies (#39 and #40).

---

Reply one of two (reply #39):

---

To answer your question in reply #35:

Just wondering why you swapped red and green on L1 and L2 in any case. This adds yet another variable (even if it has no effect) if you are trying to solve the original problem.

At the time, I wasn't only testing the 623D connector when reporting the results in reply #34.

I was taking an overview look at the phone and envisioning it as a straight line:

handset (+components) --> handset cord --> D1-202 Base (+components) --> mounting cord ---> 623D connector --> Subset (+ components) --> line cord --> wall jack

And, taking a closer look at this section of the "line" (i.e., testing relationships and/or interactions):
D1-202 Base  --> mounting cord ---> 623D connector --> Subset --> line cord

I thought it would be redundant / information overload to report the results of all the tests, so I shared the results as seen above.

---

In case you are curious, I'll include the results of the other tests here.

---

To summarize the results of the other tests:

The phone only works as expected when the yellow and black wires are reversed from the mounting cord (either in the subset from the 623D connector or in the D1 202 base from the mounting cord).

As long as the yellow and black wires are reversed from the mounting cord, it does not matter if the red and green wires are in the original locations or switched in the subset (either from the mounting cord / 623D connector or line cord).

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In the Subset:

623D Connector --> Subset:

With everything in the original locations inside the D1-202 base and subset, switching the locations of the yellow and black wires from the 623D connector results in a working phone.

With the yellow and black wires back in their original locations, switching the locations of the green and red wires from the 623D connector results in the same symptoms (busy signal, etc.).

Switching the locations of the yellow and black and green and red wires from the 623D connector results in a working phone.

---

In the Subset:

Subset --> Line Cord:

With all the mounting cord / 623D connections in the original locations inside the D1-202 base as well as in the subset, switching the locations of the green and red wires from the line cord results in the same symptoms (busy signal, etc.).

---

In the D1 202 Base:

D1 - 202 Base --> Mounting Cord:

With the 623D connector and line cord connections in the original locations inside the subset, switching the locations of the yellow and black wires from the mounting cord results in a working phone.

With the yellow and black wires back in their original locations, switching the locations of the green and red wires from the mounting cord results in the same symptoms (busy signal, etc.).

Switching the locations of the yellow and black and green and red wires from the mounting cord results in a working phone.

---

Out of curiosity, I additionally re-connected the phone as a manual set (Procedure 1 from reply #22):

Switching the locations of the yellow and black wires from the mounting cord results in a working (manual) phone.

With the yellow and black wires back in their original locations, switching the locations of the green and red wires from the mounting cord results in the same symptoms (busy signal, etc.).

Switching the locations of the yellow and black and green and red wires from the mounting cord results in a working (manual) phone.

The results were the same when all wires were back in their original locations inside the D1-202 base and the changes were made in the subset.

---

To be continued in reply #40 below...

Take care,
GLadstone

[GLadstone]

Hi poplar1 and Sargeguy,

Reply two of two (reply #40, continued from reply #39 above).

---

Since I still don't have a strap wrench to fully disassemble the E1 handset to investigate the bullet transmitter, I took a closer look at the modular connections, per these observations in replies #35 and #36 [bold emphasis added]:

However, if your VOM indicates no reversal of the red and green (as measured continuity from red wire of the 4-conductor mtg. cord, thru its modular plug, to the red lead of the 623D), and the same for green (but not for yellow and black), then I don't know how this is possible unless someone moved the leads around inside the 623D.....but if so, why didn't he also move the yellow and black inside the 623D?

This would seem to indicate that it is an intermittent problem like a short rather than a wiring or component failure.  I think the most likely suspect is the bullet transmitter or the modular jack.

"Individual" Continuity Tests:

Continuity exists as expected (yellow to yellow, etc.), when testing each of the following individually (i.e., disconnected from everything):

-Brown Cloth Mounting Cord (4 spade tip to modular plug):
-623D Connecting Jack (modular socket to 4 spade tip):
-White Vinyl Line Cord (4 spade tip to modular plug):

---

"Paired" Continuity Tests (i.e., testing spade tip to spade tip continuity across a modular plug to socket connection):

Brown Cloth Mounting Cord (4 spade tip to modular plug) connected to 623D Connecting Jack (modular socket to 4 spade tip):

(Same results as previously reported in reply #34 above.)

Yellow (Mounting Cord) --> Black (623D)
Black (Mounting Cord) --> Yellow (623D)
Green (Mounting Cord) --> Green (623D)
Red (Mounting Cord) --> Red (623D)

White Vinyl Line Cord (4 spade tip to modular plug) connected to 623D Connecting Jack (modular socket to 4 spade tip):

Yellow (Line Cord) --> Yellow (623D)
Black (Line Cord) --> Black (623D)
Green (Line Cord) --> Green (623D)
Red (Line Cord) --> Red (623D)

---

Based on the results of the continuity tests, I took closer look at the "order" of the wire colors in the modular plugs and socket:



As you can see in the above photo, it seems the yellow and black wires are reversed inside the brown cloth mounting cord modular plug.

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In the future, please use a spade-,to-spade mounting cord, OR, rearrange the wires inside the 623D, unless you connect the red wire of the 623 to GN, green to R, yellow to BK, and black to L2, along with a note to the next poor guy explaining why all the wires seem to be going to the wrong place.

A spade to spade mounting cord is on my wish list (along with a strap wrench).

And, I've written a note to myself about the yellow and black wires in the brown cloth modular plug.



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If yellow and black are reversed: PERM (permanent signal=can't hang up=line busy

If red and green (only) are reversed: excessive sidetone (hear yourself) AND noticeable click in your ear if you mash down the plunger slowly. (If wired correctly, there should be no audible click when hanging up a Western Electric 202, 102, 302, 20-AL, 50-AL, 51-AL, 151-AL, or 500!)

Currently, everything seems to be pointing to the arrangement of the yellow and black wires in the modular plug of the brown cloth cord as the source of the permanent signal symptoms.

I'll report back if / when I get the E1 handset fully disassembled...

---

Thank you all for sharing your time and knowledge to troubleshoot and find the problem!

Take care,
GLadstone

[poplar1]

Can someone please try this:

  On.a correctly wired 202 with 4-conductor cord between phone and subset: (1) when the phone is off-hook, and you press down the plunger slowly, do you hear a click.in the receiver or not? (2)now, reverse the red and green wires on R and GN terminals (NOT the wires on L1 and L2 ). When pushing the plunger slowly, do you.hear a.click or.not?

[poplar1]

Currently, everything seems to be pointing to the arrangement of the yellow and black wires in the modular plug of the brown cloth cord as the source of the permanent signal symptoms.

That is incorrect.

The red and green are reversed in the cloth covered cord (manufacture defect). The yellow and black are correct. This cord was made up for use on a 302, for example, from the telephone set to the RJ11 wall jack.

All 4 wires are reversed in the white cord if there is only one plug on this cord.


The 623D is correct, but only when used as designed: with a standard cord with plugs on each end, where one plug is BK-R-GN-Y and the other is the mirror image Y-GN-R-BK.

When the 623D is used in the "off-label" fashion, such as  with a properly wired 1\4 modular cord used as a mounting cord D1 to 623D in subset, you would have to swap yellow and black (i.e., yellow to BK terminal and black to L2) as well as red and green (i.e.., red to GN terminal and green to R).

So of the 8 wires in the 2 plugs, 6 are wrong. The 623D is correctly manufactured when used with a standard modular-to-modular cord.

The wall jack (not shown) is Left to Right W-BK-R-GN-Y-BL, BK-R-GN-Y, or R-GN depending on the number of wires.

[GLadstone]

Hi poplar1,

Thank you for all the information about modular plug wiring in reply #42!

---

So of the 8 wires in the 2 plugs, 6 are wrong.

Wow-- That is very eye-opening! 

---

I haven't had a lot of time to explore all the options / prices yet, but I hope to order replacement (spade to spade) cords soon!

Take care,
GLadstone

[GLadstone]

Hi Everyone,

A good news to report:

The line, subset, and handset cords have been replaced.

And, the D1 202 phone with 634BA-3 subset now works as expected when connected to:
-POTS landline service
-An Xlink BTTN (for "wifi" calling)

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Wiring:

D1-202:



634BA-3 Subset:



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Video clip of the phone ringing when connected to POTS (after cords were replaced) at YouTube:
https://youtu.be/2b8orIHFPMs

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Thank you again to everyone for your help troubleshooting this phone!

Take care,
GLadstone