Getting an AE90 to work on a standard phone line

[fluffy]

Hi, I've recently acquired an Automatic Electric 90 (unmodified), and am having trouble getting it to work.  From the wiring diagrams on the TCI Library, this seems to be the AE90PC (although a couple of the terminals have different numbers on them than on the diagram), and from other threads on here I have figured out that it has a "frequency ringer" (as opposed to a straight-line ringer).  As best as I can tell, the wiring diagram indicates that I should wire tip/+ to terminal 8 and ring/- to terminal 10 (and those two screws were already loose when I got the phone, which strongly implies that those were what the line was wired to before).

The thing is that the phone never captures the line; I don't hear a dial tone or any loopback audio, and even with the phone off the hook, if I call in on my cellphone, the other phones still ring.  The ringer in the phone also doesn't seem to be getting quite enough current, as the clapper vibrates but not enough to make contact with the bells.  I suspect that this may just be an issue with the ringer itself though.

Regarding the line capture, is there anything in particular I should look at and try?  The mechanical switch that is connected to the handset hook seems like it might be slightly bent out of shape, although I don't know what shape it's supposed to be in and I'm afraid of breaking or damaging it.  Or are there any other mechanical faults I should look for, or is there just a complete difference between a modern phone line and the bygone era of a phone being a hard-wired natural extension of the line itself?

I'm pretty handy with electronics in general, and have a multimeter if there's anything that I should specifically check out.  I just don't quite know where to start with this.

Thanks.

[GG]

The wiring in AE 80s and 90s can be highly variable depending on exactly when it was made.  I can get them working quickly but it's difficult to teach particularly online.  Finding & following the correct schematics helps a lot. 

If the clapper in your ringer is vibrating between the gongs, that's a good sign: very often when you get one that has a frequency ringer (those were used on party lines and the different frequencies of ringing current made them selective), it won't budge.   So do this:

Loosen the screw in the center of each bell, and rotate the bell such as to reduce the distance between the bell and the clapper.  Then tighten up the screw firmly but gently to hold each bell in its new position.  This may enable the phone to ring quietly.  If that isn't sufficient, then look for a very small set-screw on the clapper weight itself, loosen that, and slide the clapper weight along the rod it is on, further out away from the bell coils, and then tighten that screw again and see if that does it.  Experiment with the position of the clapper on the rod to find a position that maximizes the movement of the clapper when the phone rings.   If that isn't enough to get it to ring even quietly, then you might look at replacing the ringer.  Occasionally AE ringers come up as spare parts, more often the newer type with the slide lever as a volume control. 

[LarryInMichigan]

fluffy,

It is possible that your hook switch is not closing properly when.  If you can post good pictures of the hook switch and other internals here, someone should be able to help with your problem.  We have some members who are very knowledgeable about AE90s.

Larry

[fluffy]

Here's some video of the mechanism in action.

And I've attached pictures, two of the ringer and one of the hook mechanism in its closed state.

[fluffy]

Thanks for the tips on adjusting the ringer - just by turning the bells I got it producing a wonderful chime, which the microphone in my camera doesn't do justice.  I might just have to record it with my studio equipment and use it as my cellphone ringtone (sacrilege, I know, but the irony of this project is I never use the phone anyway).

Now I just need to get the hook mechanism working!

[dsk]

It looks like straighten out no 1 will make  no 2 hitting no 3 so all the contacts move as they should.  Be Careful to not break it.

Good luck

dsk

[fluffy]

Straightening it out didn't help, but while poking around I found that it was capturing the line and getting a dial tone when the bottom-most "fronds" make contact.  So I think it's supposed to be bent, in such a way that 1 gets pushed *down* by 2.

I need to try to make sense of the wiring diagram to see what the circuit is supposed to do.

[dsk]

If you look at the wiring diagram, the switch has 3+2 wipers.
Counted from bottom and up.

No 2 switches between 1 (on hook) and 3 (off hook)
No 4 and 5 closes at offhook position, and opens at on hook position.

The timing of this will affect the click in the receiver, but not the function.

dsk

[fluffy]

That makes sense with what I was seeing when I got the dialtone, but there doesn't seem to be anything in the mechanism that would allow that to happen.  What's supposed to make #2 move?

Also, where did you get that wiring diagram?  I'm consulting ae90pc_tl.pdf from TCI.  That wiring diagram does also mention a wiring change to make in hooklatch operation - is that something I should try?  I haven't fully traced the wires just yet but all the ones I have looked at do match up the original wiring diagram.

As far as the wipers, here is what I have:

There are 7 "fronds" in all. There are little rubber nubs on 7 and 4, facing downward. 1 and 2 are always making contact.

When the hook is in the on-hook position, 4 contacts 3, and 7 contacts 6.

In the off-hook position, the hook pushes 4 up into 7, and 4 contacts 5, and 7 contacts nothing.  In that position, if I push 3 into 2, the line gets captured and I hear a dial tone. (This is how it is since straightening #4 out.)

[fluffy]

Hooklatch didn't make any difference, so I rewired it back to the standard configuration. Oh well.

[dsk]

I used this diagram:
http://sc.infc.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=1871&Itemid=31
This may not be accurate, but the basics should be there.

#2 changes the capacitor between the ringer (#1), and a filter at the dial (#3).
# 4 and #5 is the switch connecting the speech circuit in and out.

dsk

[fluffy]

Thanks, I'll try to make sense of this.

Do you happen to know of any photos of a properly-assembled/working hook switch for this model?  That might be more useful than all the circuit diagrams in the world, in this case.

[dsk]

Sorry, i do not have an AE90 myselves.

Looking closer to that photo of yours, does it have 5 contacts (4 wires) or is it a newer version with 7 contacts (7 wires) or even the 3rd version with 7 contacts (6 wires)?

I'm more insecure now, after watching the video several times, could you please take a look.

dsk

[fluffy]

7 contacts, 7 wires. One of those wires bridges the two contacts.  Hopefully these pictures will help.

[dsk]

Looks like this is the closest diagram: http://sc.infc.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=265&Itemid=31
Look at the last ae90 diagram.

The colors do not match.
At your telephone it looks like Whit ends at L2 and Red ends at 2
Black should end at L1 and yellow should end at 11
Orange gos to 3 and has no function.
Green should end at 13.

The upper contact (Green - Brown) shorts the receiver in on-hook position.
If this not working, just remove the green from 13, and tape the end.

The Red and White should close in off-hook position and open in on-hook position.
The same for Yellow and Black.
If only one of these works, just strap the other.

dsk