Wiring AE-43 to Type 51 Dial

[Slal]

Wanted project phone, but didn't expect to get one with no wires connected to dial which is in pretty rough shape.

1.) What is this dial?  Looks more like a 51A (from a GTE pub. dated 1979) than a 24.

2.) Obviously like some help in connecting it to AE-43 to see if phone DoA.


thx

--Bruce

[stub]

Bruce,
         There are two different wiring diagrams. Can you trace out the wires on your induction coil and match it to one of the diagrams? Your dial is a 51 A with twin contact SATT springs (dial chart said it didn't come this way but there it is) and you can use it by removing the orange and red wires on your dial.  stub

[stub]

Bruce,
         I just noticed that your terminal connection strip is from a AE 83 (7 connections) . Your dial also matches the 83 diagram. AE 43's have 6 connections. The induction coil is from a 43. Here's a AE 83 diagram.  Who knows what you have there. Refurbished AE 43 ? Good luck.  stub

[G-Man]

Wanted project phone, but didn't expect to get one with no wires connected to dial which is in pretty rough shape.

1.) What is this dial?  Looks more like a 51A (from a GTE pub. dated 1979) than a 24.

2.) Obviously like some help in connecting it to AE-43 to see if phone DoA.


thx

--Bruce

A bit difficult to tell from your post but were the dial and telephone related to each other before you posted the photograph or did you end up with a manual (no-dial) telephone and want to install  a dial that you came across?

Does it have a standard handset or is it equipped for PTT? 

As indicated by Stub something seems to be non-standard about it. These sets were also used for purposes other than normal telephone service, especially by the railroads.   

[Slal]

Thanks for replies.  'Stub' in particular, thanks for taking the time to post photos.

This one's a puzzle which makes it fun.  Induction coil is marked "D283022a" -- according to Meyer's book this is from a local battery phone?

Wondering if this phone ever *had* a dial & someone just plopped a 51A into it so would sell better on the bay.  No wires look to have been cut or solder joints removed.  Dial just sitting there when it should have 2 connections in circuit: one to the hook switch & one to coil *before* anything else correct?

Will have a look at 83's diagram, but since already made a 'test' diagram will attach so you guys can see if looks good & proceed or need to revise.

In scanned diagram, the dial from Stub's diagram in "001.jpg" has been inserted & the terminals have been re-numbered to what is stamped on them.

Thinking it's better to use a diagram rather than "guess & hope" on phone itself.

Thanks for your time in helping me out here & enjoy weekend.

--Bruce

[Slal]

Might also need to add where Telco will come in. 

Had thought red would be on #1 & green on #2.  That would be 'mixing colors'-- something that just strikes me as odd or a 'no no.'   

Solve dial wiring first of course, but make sense to 'match' Telco colors?  i.e. green would be on #1 & red on #2.

Probably lost money on this e-bay 'gamble' but worth it as learning experience.

thx

--Bruce 

[G-Man]

Might also need to add where Telco will come in. 

Had thought red would be on #1 & green on #2.  That would be 'mixing colors'-- something that just strikes me as odd or a 'no no.'   

Solve dial wiring first of course, but make sense to 'match' Telco colors?  i.e. green would be on #1 & red on #2.

Probably lost money on this e-bay 'gamble' but worth it as learning experience.

thx

--Bruce 

If it has a local battery induction coil then it would point to being used for railroad or similar service as I previously stated. The diagram should be in the TCI library or in one of my AE Practices. You may have to "hack" the circuit or use two "D" cells for talking.

[G-Man]

A couple of years ago Phil McCarter purchased a large quantity of AECo induction coils at the TCI telephone show. I don't know what number they were and there intended use is but you may want to contact him in case they are useful for common battery service.

[G-Man]

I just noticed the local battery diagram you attempted to merge with Stub's so I'm a bit confused; did you have the wiring diagram for you set all along? If so then you have the answer. There will have to be modifications to it for common battery operation. As far as the connections you have shown for the dial, you are shorting out the line prior to the pulsing contacts.

[G-Man]

As I had inquired earlier, does it still have a P.T.T. handset or has it been changed to a standard handset?

[stub]

Bruce,
          I think someone added the dial .  stub

[Scotophor]

I thought:
Green = Tip = Positive = L1
Red = Ring = Negative = L2

Do I have this wrong?

[G-Man]

In this instance polarity doesn't matter.

[Slal]

Might be helpful to review & also attaching orig. diagram to avoid any confusion.  Diagram in 1st attachment is "homework" and a work in progress.  Goes without saying-- should *not* be used as a reference except for this exercise.

Quick question / quick answer.  Can this phone be wired to this dial?  Yes or no.

If no then skip the rest.

If yes...

Maybe a review about phone so far:

Atypical because:

I.) According to 'Stub' has terminal strip from an AE-83.  Coil = AE-43 & there is no rheostat in circuit that would be in an 83.   

II.)No evidence 51A dial was ever wired to this phone as demonstrated by solder on LH side of hook switch seeming untouched (complete with a few cobwebs.)  Solder on coil also appears untouched. 

III.) G-Man, phone is using a type 41 handset with "anti-noise" push-button switch. 

Receiver: "A.E. Co. Type 41 D5189-B - 11-54"
Transmitter: A.E. Co. 41 D-38309-A" & "F4"

Oddity: resistor in transmitter cup between Blk & Or =  75K ohm +/- 5%  (violet, green, orange gold.) Shouldn't this be 750 ohms?

So... Just more 2 more questions for now.

1.) Correct if mistaken.  White from pulsing springs to hook switch OK.  (AE-83 uses yellow but same connection.)

2.) Green is culprit in shorting out before pulsing springs?  (Red just goes to coil 6.)     

thx

--Bruce

[G-Man]

The short answer is, with modifications, it can be adapted to common battery dial service.

Both mine and Stub's earlier comments were made prior to your posting of the correct schematic for your telephone that shows it is not intended for standard common battery service. The terminal strip in your set is consistent with that wiring diagram.

Using unrelated wiring diagrams is not helpful and you should focus on adapting your set for use on common battery service.

Wiring the dial is not a problem but you may have to use a couple of dry-cells for talking current though a workaround may be possible.