News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

Soft Plastic 302 Shell?

Started by liteamorn, December 01, 2011, 08:40:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

TelePlay

Quote from: Doug Rose on December 03, 2011, 08:03:32 AM
Quote from: GG on December 03, 2011, 12:08:21 AM


Doug and Paul F are major experts on WE 302, so it'll be very interesting to see what they say when they see your pictures. 
Paul has forgot more than I will ever know, he is the true expert. I am just along for the ride. I am anxious to see this shell. The soft plastic 302s I have seen have been color with painted handsets to match as WE could not satisfy the demand for color sets. I have a Red, had a Green and a Ivory and have heard the rumors of a blue, although I have never seen one. I have never seen a black one, this could be very cool. My guess, a 302 this late in the game, if it was softplastic, came with a WE plastic handset....Doug

Okay, I received a black 302 similar to that which started this thread. Upon opening, it seemed the shell was quite light in weight. It is also quite flexible and the exterior is worn and scraped unlike I've seen with a Bakelite shell. It seems I could easily put a scratch in the shell with a fingernail. My other 302's have heavier shells that are not as flexible and do not show the surface defects I've found on this phone.

Near the back shell post are two separate red H-1's right next to each other (like a double stamp but not overlapping), the front shell lip is marked 8-27-49-1 in yellow paint. The base plate has a red 9-49, the ringer is dated 9-49, the network is III-49, the dial is a 5H dated 11-7-46, the F1 transmitter is dated 4-46, the HA1 receiver is dated 8-20-49. It is a Western Electric F-1 handset. It has a straight line and receiver cord.

The inside looks like the North Electric phone picture posted in this link except for the dial. There is no manufacture information anywhere on the phone base, only the WE handset.

So, what do I have here? Seems like a '49 with a black soft plastic but from what I've read, that is not possible. Any ideas?

I will post any pictures requested.

AE_Collector

We have another problem in this thread where something is making it too wide and that causes problems for those of us using Internet Explorer.

The first page of posts is too wide but the reply button at the bottom is still accesable. that is how I am able to post this.

Page two is even wider making none of the buttons on the bottom visible.

Since no scroll bar shows up there is no way for IE users to properly read the posts or reply.

It might be Liteamorn's posts on page two with pictures side by side but I don't know why page 1 is also wider than normal.

Dennis has fixed this in the past I believe.

Terry

liteamorn

I thought the problem was my failed attempt to post my pictures. I tried to go back and edit them but i cannot access the edit button. Sorry folks.

AE_Collector

Don't worry about it Liteamorn. You aren't the first one that this has happened to. I am not certain what causes it.

Posts can be made here by using the reply button on the bottom of the first page.

I'll PM Dennis to see if he can fix it.

Terry

AE_Collector

Okay, Dennis is workin on it. Page 1 is proper now but page two is still in trouble. Dennis figures the long link in post 14 started the problem and once he shortened it page 1 is back to normal. I think the long link allowed the pictures in post 15 (top of page 2) to go side by side and they are now keeping page 2 way too wide for proper viewing.

Terry

AE_Collector

Liteamorn:

I guess you can't edit your post 15 with the pictures in it can you. I was going to say try deleting the last or maybe all 3 pictures and then post them again.

Maybe Dennis can delete your 3rd picture. I think it landed beside the 3nd picture since there was room due to the previous extra wide link in post 14.

Terry

AE_Collector

Okay, Dennis removed the pictures which has fixed it for us IE users. You should be okay to add the pictures back Liteamorn. It is the super long links that seem to cause this problem here.

Thanks Dennis..

Terry

liteamorn

#22
Yikes, I'll try again :)




liteamorn

Whew,
It seems to have worked, as you can see (or not see, the pic is kind of blurry )my 302 shell has a date of 4 2 59 stamped on it. It appears, by sound and smell and flexability, to be soft plastic. I wonder how rare this is? Could it be a Northern Electric shell?

GG



Here's a hypothesis for you:

The phone was owned by an independent (non-Bell) operating company, and they had a lot of non-Bell WE 302s in service including a decent number they bought during the 40s and early 50s. 

These phones still had the potential of staying in service for another decade, into the 1960s and perhaps early 70s.  In any case, various government loans and suchlike (REA, etc.), and private bonds, and other private capital, were predicated on long terms of repayment, for example 20 years.

The telco did what many do, and ran its own refurb shop to process phones removed from service.  At some point in the 50s WE stopped making replacement housings for these, and switched over to making 5302 housings (which would be more costly since they also required replacing the dial numberplate and adding the extended number ring).  But Northern Electric continued making 302 housings, for Canadian telcos to use.  Our hypothetical American independent telco bought the replacement housings from Northern Electric, at least through 1959, possibly even longer.  And that's what you have there.  An originally WE 302 with a Northern Electric replacement housing dated 1959.

What would support this hypothesis:

1)  If the handset was not marked Bell System, but only had the usual non-Bell version of the Western Electric F1 markings.   This would support that the phone was owned by a non-Bell independent telco.

2)  If there has never been a sighting of a Northern Electric 5302 (Northern Electric markings on a 5302 housing).  This would support that Northern Electric continued making 302 housings rather than switching over to making 5302 housings. 

3)  If the phone came from an area in the northern USA, particularly a state that has a border with Canada, the logistics of getting Northern Electric parts would have been simpler & less-costly than if the phone came from the southern USA where the added freight charges would begin to bring the cost of the Canadian housings closer to that of WE 5302 housings.  If you got the phone from a northern state, that would support this item about supply logistics. 

If all three of these items are correct, I'd say they add up to a pretty strong case.

TelePlay

#25
Quote from: Doug Rose on December 03, 2011, 08:03:32 AM
Quote from: GG on December 03, 2011, 12:08:21 AM


I am anxious to see this shell. The soft plastic 302s I have seen have been color with painted handsets to match as WE could not satisfy the demand for color sets. I have a Red, had a Green and a Ivory and have heard the rumors of a blue, although I have never seen one. I have never seen a black one, this could be very cool. My guess, a 302 this late in the game, if it was softplastic, came with a WE plastic handset....Doug

My original post got lost in the formating problems that were posted in this thread right after my post. Anyway, everything I wrote is still as I received the phone except today I opened it up and did the hot needle test on an inside support. The needle went into the black shell like a hot knife into butter. It's not Bakelite and it's not metal. So, does this means I have a black soft plastic 302 case dated 8-27-49 inside the front lip? If so, is that of any importance or significance?

The exterior of the shell is quite dinged up on the sharp edges as is one ear. I was planning on using the base as a subset for a 202 since the shell is not in the best shape and the 5H dial dated 1946 needs work at Steve's shop.