Converting a SC 1202 to work with a subset help needed...

[RotoTech99]

From: RotoTech99:

Dear Group:

I have a SC 1202 that had a bad induction coil and condenser that was removed from it I received a couple month's back... I would like to set it up with a subset... The subset would most likely be a WE 581A or a "repurposed 500 base changed to a subset with network and ringer", or a 685A type subset.

My question is: What connections do I need to make to the 1202's terminals for the handset, and then to connect the base to my subset? Can someone please assist me with this?

I know the 1197 and at least one other SC deskstand WITHOUT the internal coil and condenser can hook up to a SC subset, but as I am working with a WE 581A, or a equivalent of a 685A subset, I need some advice on the connections I could make to either of these to "bring life" to my SC 1202?

All assistance appreciated, and Thank You.
RotoTech99

[dsk]

Something like whats discussed here? http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12931.0

dsk

[RotoTech99]

Yes, something similar, but my 1202 has no dial. its a manual set.

It originally had a induction coil/condenser internally. Those were removed as they were defective.

So, what I want to do is use either a 581A subset, or something similar to a 685A subset, and use the 1202 as a manual deskstand with subset.

As I already have a 581A subset, I think it would be easiest to use.

can you please give me an idea on connecting the SC 1202 to the 581A as to the internal connections inside the 1202, then the interconnecting cable to the 581A subset. REMEMBER, the SC 1202 is a manual set. 

All assistance appreciated, and Thank You.
RotoTech99

[unbeldi]

A 581A was not really just a subset, but the guts of the Design Line set, so BELL could own the internals, while the customer could use any third-party shell.
So, that makes it much easier to complete the telephone.  Simply connect the receiver and the transmitter in place of the T1 transmitter and U1 receiver, on the R, GN, and B terminals of the network.  You'll have to be somewhat inventive in placing the switches.

The 581A is really designed to have the remaining components in close proximity, i.e. in the same enclosure, rather than in a separate apparatus box or handset mounting.   A potentially better or less involved approach to making this telephone work again, might be to use a small mini-network, such as the AE N-205.  This can be mounted directly in the base of the desk set.  The draw-back is the lack of ringer, of course, but external ringers are cheap.

But here is what you need to replicate when using the 581A. Ringer is omitted.

[poplar1]

                          581A Tel Set Base                                                               S-C 1202                        Handset
Green line (tip)->L1
Red Line (ring--->L2<----------------------------------------------------------->F-------X---------E
                                            C<-------------------------------------------------------------------^

                                            GN<-------------------------------------------->A--------X--------B<----------receiver (green)

                                            B<------------------------------------------------------------------D<----------transmitter (yellow)

                                            R<------------------------------------------------------------------G<----------common (red)


X represents hookswitch contacts in phone.

Modifications in the 581A:
Disconnect the (brown) hookswitch lead that is on C on the network
Move the (white) hookswitch lead from F to RR.

[poplar1]

The 581A is really designed to have the remaining components in close proximity, i.e. in the same enclosure, rather than in a separate apparatus box or handset mounting.

That's usually true. However, for the early "Candlestick" model, the 581A was mounted externally with the "cover" provided by the customer. A 6-conductor (D6AA) cord was used between the phone and the 581A, so that the dial filter (F-RR) could be included in the circuit. See Fig. 6 and Fig. 13:
http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/782-503-100-120-i3-jan74-581a-tel-set-bases (TCI Library)

[RotoTech99]

Dear Poplar1:

When I connect the 1202 and 581A, I planned to remove the hookswitch from the 581A base entirely, and treat the 581A as a subset, and utilize the hook switch connections inside the 1202 to connect my handset and interconnect cable to the 581A.

I think this would be similar to how the early Deco-Tel candlesticks were set up as desk stands with the 581A, except in this case the 1202 has its own hookswitch with terminals.

Can you revise the wiring you suggested, and tell me, please what connections to make using the 1202's hookswitch, and the 581A less its hookswitch?

Thank you for replying, the advice is useful, but I think I should've been a bit more specific on my part.

Please let me know,
RotoTech99

BTW: I can figure out the ringer hookup easily enough

[poplar1]

                          581A Tel Set Base                                                               S-C 1202                        Handset
Green line (tip)->L1 RR
Red Line (ring--->L2<----------------------------------------------------------->F-------X---------E
                                            C <__________________________________________/
                                       

                                            GN<-------------------------------------------->A--------X--------B<----------receiver (green)

                                            B<------------------------------------------------------------------D<----------transmitter (yellow)

                                            R<-----------------------------------------------------------------H-G<----------common (red)


X represents hookswitch contacts in phone.


Modifications in the 581A:
Disconnect the (brown) hookswitch lead that is on C on the network
Move the (white) hookswitch lead from F to RR.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Poplar1:

I saw the revised wiring info I asked for you sent, Thank You.

I think you mentioned the possibility of using a AE mini-network from a AE StyleLine phone as well.. I have some HB-1021
mini-networks on hand... Is that the mini-network you mentioned?

If I chose to use that  mini-network, how would I connect it to my SC 1202?

I've included a picture of my 1202's terminals with this reply. Note that there is a strap between "G" and "F" terminals on the hookswitch assembly.

If you weren't the one who mentioned the mini-network, I saw a couple other replies that might be the ones that did.

Please let me know.
RotoTech99

I ask because I am considering that as a option... I see where it would mount with double-sided foam tape on the baseplate.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Unbeldi:

In regards to my inquiry about converting my SC 1202 to use with a subset...

I do have a couple AE HB-1025 mini networks I could use to convert my SC 1202... Is this the mini-network you referred to, it has wires in the following colors: black, blue, green, red, pink, white, and maybe a brown one; I couldn't tell for sure, but I know there are about six leads on it.

I'd need to know how to wire it in; I've included a photo of my terminal layout in my 1202 to assist in giving me the wiring
information.... Note that I have marked a strap that is present between terminals "f" and "g" on the photo.

Please let me know, and all assistance is appreciated

[unbeldi]

Here is a thread that discusses these mini networks:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16639.0
Also: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4951.0


I am not in detail familiar with the HB-1025, I don't think, but I do think that most of these types of mini-networks are very similar and often have the same colors for the leads.  As far as I know, they were all compatible with the basic 500-set circuit.

[RotoTech99]

Dear Unbeldi:

Thanks for replying, I found a picture of the N-205 mini network. It is the same mini-network I have. (the HB 1021 as I called it...) I compared the drawing to mine, and they match up.

Can you tell me how to wire it into my SC-1202 set? I have attached the AE N-205 diagram I located, plus the photo of my SC1202's terminal layout, wit5h the strap between the "G" and "F" terminals.

Please Remember, My set is manual, and does not have a dial.

Please let me know,
RotoTech99

[RotoTech99]

Dear Poplar1:

You show a connection going from C on the 581A tel. set base that looks like its supposed to connect to "E" in the SC1202 base, is that right? (I am guessing that is from my interconnect cable)

You also show the red line from L2 connected to "F" in the SC 1202 to "E" in the SC 1202... Do I need a strap to do that, or is that a "empty" handset connection?Can you please clarify these wiring questions, I am a little confused.

I apologize for the confusion, I am having a little difficulty following your diagram is why I am asking for clarification.

Thank you for your replies, I'm making progress, but still a bit confused.

Thank You,
RotoTech99

[dsk]

This is a tough one, at least to explain how to do this. 
I would have started with a pretty simple circuit.   The 3 handset wires to the subset, with one common for receiver and transmitter.
Then 2 wires connected to a random set of contacts in the hook sw.  as long as it breaks when going on-hook.
(that i s 5 wires to the subset.)  The 2 last should just break the line in to the subset when going on hook. (E.g. F and L1 on the subset)
If you do not put on a dial strap F and RR
Connect the line to L1 and C
If you are using the ringer Connect ringer between G and K, strap A and C   and strap G and L1

It should work.

dsk

[RotoTech99]

Dear dsk:

If you look at Reply #8 (posted yesterday by Poplar1 at 02:45:59 PM) in this topic, you'll note that I am using a WE 581A subset with my SC 1202[/b]... Poplar1 has given me some connection information, but my usually sharp technical mind is having a little trouble "digesting" it.

I am attaching my photo of my 1202's terminals, and how they are designated, including a strap going from Term. "F" to Term. "G".

I think I understand most of what he's telling me; (the handset connections and line hookup) but there is a little that I don't get the grasp of...

For example, he's showing a connection from "C" on the 581A to what I believe to be "E in the 1202 indicated by a "^".. Above it he shows the Red line going to "F" inside the 1202, and the Green line to "RR". The connection from "C" to "E" is the main thing confusing me.

Please look at the wiring he provides in that and my photo provided and see if you can clarify what he's telling me.

Thank You & Best Regards,
RotoTech99