Dial Plate vs Dial Plate Overlay

[winkydink]

I have several phones that need to have the porcelin dial plate replaced due to the numbers rubbing off (mostly the "1").  Some phones are probably keepers, while others I would just like to make look nicer.

In general what are peoples opinion regarding dial overlays such as the one listed in this link

http://tinyurl.com/oldphoneworks-No5

I have some #5h dials and a #6 dial.

I know that replacing the dial plate is the most desirable way to go.  Old Phoneworks has them for sale for about $20.00.  The dial overlay is about $2.50.  Is this an OK way to go, to cut costs until the "right" phone comes along, thats worth spending the money on ?

Additionally, how hard is it to either replace the old dial plate, or put on a dial overlay ?  Are there some threads on the current web site that show how hard or easy this is.

How does one remove a dial plate ?  I have removed the dial from the shell of a 302 and a 354, but thats it.  What is involved in removing the plate ?

Thanks in advance (as always)

WD


Edit....

My bad - the website link has installation instructions.  Is it really as easy/hard as that ?  I would still be interested in peoples opinions.  Thanks

[Dan/Panther]

I considered buying the overlays, then decided it was a quick foix and a bandaid.
I think they are great for people refurbishing phones and selling them, but true collectors I doubt would have them on rare phones for permanent display.

D/P

[Dennis Markham]

W.D. those overlays don't look too bad.  I have a couple of dials that I bought with the overlays already in place.  It's a good way to have a decent looking dial plate until a porcelain one comes along.  I've never installed the overlay myself so I can't tell you how difficult it is.  The instructions make it look simple enough.

Removing the dial plate is pretty simple.  Remove the dial card retainer ring, then the nut and star washer that hold on the finger wheel.  Underneath the finger wheel is the three prong clip.  Just pry up the clip and the dial plate will come off.

There is an illustration on page 6 of this document.

http://tinyurl.com/ajoxzt

[benhutcherson]

Dial plates are super easy to change.

You first remove the fingerwheel, which is just held on by a single nut in the center(hidden under the card retainer).

Once you have the fingerwheel off, you have access to a retaining ring that hold the plate on. On #4 and #5 dials, this ring is held in place by a couple of springy metal tabs, so it just pops right off with a little bit of effort. On a #6 dial, there are three screws that hold the retainer ring in place.

When the retainer ring is out, you just need to jiggle and rotate the plate a little bit, and it lifts right off.

It took me longer to type all of this out than it does to actually change one.

As far as overlays-I've never used one, although I've considered it. My experience has been that often the really nice phones I want to display already have a nice plate anyway.

I'll probably end up installing them on some of my crummier phones just to make them look a little bit better for not much money.

I'm really tempted to install one one of my 5302s. This particular one, for some reason along the way, had the original dot plate replaced with a standard number plate, along with the numbers on the number ring having been painted over. I fortunately was able to sand the black paint off, but am still left with the incorrect number plate. Since the number plate on it is pretty bad, I'll probably just use an overlay.

[BDM]

I agree, those dial overlays are nice. I have one plate with an overlay. Looks original, just new. On my rare phones, I either kept the original, or hunted a nice original down. Other than that, I have no issue with an overlay. Saves the plate.

[winkydink]

As far as overlays-I've never used one, although I've considered it. My experience has been that often the really nice phones I want to display already have a nice plate anyway.

I'll probably end up installing them on some of my crummier phones just to make them look a little bit better for not much money.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback.

I am new to the game and was not very selective in choosing my first few phones (two 302's and a 354) to refurbish.

(My first phone, a 202 I purchased in already refurbished condition and my candlestick I was more selective and is in great shape, except for a few paint drips.  Both have excellent dial plates)

At this point I have a little more experience and some hindsight, so my next purchases will be phones that are in better shape with better dial plates on them.  However, I am left with a few phones that have lousy dial plates with numbers and letters missing.  My quandry is to spend the money on a dial plate on a phone that might not be a keeper vs spend a little, make the phone look nice and be on the lookout for a better candidate phone.

I considered buying the overlays, then decided it was a quick foix and a bandaid.
I think they are great for people refurbishing phones and selling them, but true collectors I doubt would have them on rare phones for permanent display.

D/P

Dan, you nailed it on the head.  I don't think that the phones that I am working on now are rare.  I am going to make them look as nice as possible and use them (or eventually even give some away as gifts).  One exception might be my matching dates 1947 302.  I will have to think about that one....


After viewing the various responses, I see that it will do no harm to purchase a few dial overlays and use them, as I can always replace them with a dial plate that is in better shape when and if I come into a motherload of dial plates.  I will probably as be on the lookout for dial plates by themselves or just purchase one when I order the overlays.

One last question:  Is oldphoneworks.com the same company as HouseOfTelephones.com ?  If not, which place should I purchase some replacement handset and line cords ?  Their products look nearly identical.  Is there some difference ?

[winkydink]

Removing the dial plate is pretty simple.  Remove the dial card retainer ring, then the nut and star washer that hold on the finger wheel.  Underneath the finger wheel is the three prong clip.  Just pry up the clip and the dial plate will come off.

There is an illustration on page 6 of this document.

http://tinyurl.com/ajoxzt

Dennis, that is an absolutly fabulous document.  Thank you !

Ben, Thank you also for your description.

[Dennis Markham]

The document I sent you, WinkyDink is from the TCI technical library.  There is a ton of good stuff there.  Here is the main page:

http://telephonecollectors.org/library/

Don Woodbury, owner of Oldphoneworks, purchased House of Telephones from Odis LeVrier last summer.  They two companies are now one in the same.

[rp2813]

So on page 3 of the document, figure 9, the item referred to as the "card support" is the later type?  I have some 302's that have that type and others that don't.  Which type of card support is the correct type for the various vintage phones from candlesticks to 500's?  Most of mine are not the type shown in figure 9.

Ralph

[Dennis Markham]

Ralph, that card retainer clip (card support) shown in figure 9 is one of the later ones.  I usually find those on model 500's from maybe the late 50's through the end of the metal finger wheel run.  Earlier phones have the two piece support---a smooth disc and a clip that goes on top of that.  I can find a photo if you'd like one, but I think you know what I'm referring to.  Those were pretty much standard on the early dials up to the #5 and #6 may even have those.  But the one shown in figure 9 to me is a later part.

[Perry]

Hmmm...does everyone use the "445A dial card holder tool" that is mentioned in that document, or is there a simple substitute for it?

[bingster]

I've never actually seen the tool, myself, except in the manuals.  They're completely unnecessary, anyway.  Most of them can be removed by just hooking your fingernails under the top and pulling outward.  Stubborn ones can be pried off with a small flat blade screwdriver.  If you're worried about scratching, they can also often be popped off by pushing the upper tab up from the underside of the fingerwheel.

[rp2813]

Perry, I can usually get the dial card holder assembly off simply with my fingers.  That's the first I've seen that there was a special tool for it but am not surprised that the meticulous minds at WE/Ma Bell came up with one.

Dennis, yes, I know the other type of card holder you mentioned.  Trying to describe it without a photo would have been a job but there's no need for you to post a picture here.  At least now I now which phones should have the later holder.   I was fairly sure that the earlier style was exactly that, as I have at least one that appears to be all brass parts rather than aluminum.  Still, the later style holders have an old look to them so I had always wondered.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Ralph

[Dan/Panther]

Funny you should mention odd dial card  rings. I received a 1948 302 today with a dial card holder ring that is about twice as high as normal, and I see no way that it clips on?
Any ideas.
D/P

[Dan/Panther]

Here is a photo of the ring....
D/P