Markings on ITT 500.

[Stephen Furley]

The main shell of My aqua 500 is marked 'Kellogg ITT', while the handset is marked 'ITT Kellogg'; is there any significance in the two different versions?  When did 'Kellogg' disappear and they became just 'ITT'?

Underneath it is marked 'C/D'.  I have seen this on other 500s, what does it mean?

Underneath it is marked 'Made in Canada', as is the transmitter.  Did ITT have a factory in Canada, or were these made for ITT by Northern Electric?

[LarryInMichigan]

I have a couple of ITT Kellogg phones with the same marking, though neither say Made in Canada.  I assume that ITT had a factory in Canada like many other North American companies.  ITT bought Kellogg in 1951, and the division was called ITT Kellogg for a number of years.

The "C/D" is part of the model number.  Paul F's website (http://paul-f.com/we500typ.htm) has information about the model numbers.

Larry

[rdelius]

Your set is refurbished. Most likely a Northern electric with ITT-Kellogg plastics.Nothing wrong with that
Robby

[Stephen Furley]

I think you're right about it being refurbished.  As I mentioned in another thread there are three dates hand written in graphite pencil inside - 9-19-62, 5-25-65 and 10-16-67.  On the base is printed '-62' between the 'LOUD'  and 'C/D'; is this the original build date, there is no month or day?  It would tie up with the first date written inside.  It has the round plastic brown feet with the embossed pattern on them which I think are an older type than those on my 1970 red 500.  When did these feet replace the triangular type?

The dial is also of a different type to those fitted to my other 500s, clear plastic finger wheel, but without the solid centre which the others have; the dial label is fitted in a recess in the centre of the finger wheel, covered with an acetate disk, and it seems to be slightly smaller than on later types.

The cords also seem to be of an even thicker type than those on the 1970 model, and therefore probably older.  The handset cord is badly tangled, which is unusual for these thick cords.  the handset cord seems to be very soft, almost to the point of feeling sticky.

The shell and handset are ABS hard plastic and both are only slightly discoloured.  This can be seen where there has been a label stuck on the side at some time, and since removed.  Does it seem likely that this set was refurbished in both 1965 and 1967 when it was just three and five years old, but never again since then?  Do you think that the 'Kellogg/ITT shell was fitted at refurb?  If so, then presumably the aqua handset and cords would have been fitted at the same time.  It seems to be unusual that the individual parts of a 500 set do not have dates printed on them.

Both caps on the handset are unfaded, so possibly these have been replaced at some time.

It's still a nice 'phone; just needs the coiled handset cord re-set, probably a bit of peroxide treatment, and a polish.  It came with a four prong plug, but the restraint inside the plug was the wrong type, and was broken, and there was a large amount of tape wrapped around the cord to keep it in place.  I've removed this and fitted the correct type of restraint.

It still seems odd to me to have a telephone in a pastel colour; other than ivory ones telephones of this vintage here were usually black or a dark colour.  The pink telephones, which seem to be popular over there, and which I don't have one of, look like toys to me; sort of Barbie and Ken 'My first telephone'  Even odder were the ITI models based on the Bakelite 332 model of the 1930s, which they made in several pastel hues.

[rdelius]

the set might have been black and refurbished in color. Rebuild kits were sold for this. We had a refurbisher in Sanford nc that would get the turned in sets and rebuild them whatever colors the telephone co wanted.Colors such as pink and lime green were not wanted in the 1980s so they might be rebuilt to ugly brown or dull ivory. SC would even rebuild WE or ITT-Kellogg 500 sets .
Robby

[Eman]

can you post a picture of the bottom? I have a few 500s that were made by ITT in Canada.

[Adam]

It will be interesting to see the pic, but I can tell you, an ITT 500 base would not have been marked C/D.  It really sounds to me as rdelius said, ITT plastics on an NE 500 base.

[Stephen Furley]

Did Northern Electric identify their bases, either with a punch struck into the metal, or by printing onto the metal?  It seems a bit odd that there's no makers identification at all.  If it had been struck in then it would still be there.  If it had been printed on then it may have been removed by cleaning during refurbishment, but in that case it's odd that the other markings, LOUD, C/D, 500 and -62 are still there.  Of course, it's possible that these are new marks applied during refurb.  The three handwritten dates, in 1962, 1965 and 1967 are also a bit odd.  Does anybody know between which dates the round plastic feet with the embossed patern, were used?  Also, when was hard plastic introduced?  What about the fingerwheel, when was that type replaced by the solid centre type?

The slight discolouration seems to be cleaning up quite nicely.

[Adam]

Northern Electric stamped "Made In Canada" into the metal of the base, and printed its other markings.  But your printed markings make it sound like it's a Western Electric base.

Pictures would really help solve this mystery!

[Adam]

From my collection of pics stolen borrowed from eBay, here is a pic of the markings on a typical Northern Electric 500 set.

[Stephen Furley]

Northern Electric stamped "Made In Canada" into the metal of the base, and printed its other markings.  But your printed markings make it sound like it's a Western Electric base.

Pictures would really help solve this mystery!

I haven't taken any pictures yet, but there is a picture of the base on Ebay:

http://tinyurl.com/3w2wcdl


It wasn't ultra cheap, but I think it's a fair price; it's in good condition except for a bit of dirt, it has the correct cords and plug, and is a relatively uncommon colour.  Most of the ones on Ebay seem to be beige for some reason.

[AE_Collector]

ITT did have a plant in Canada although I can't say where it was.

Another tip for those who don't know, in Adam's picture of the base where there are 3 dashes in a verticle stack with 73 to the right of it...this indicates 3rd quarter (because there are three dashes) of 1973. I know most of you know that but some may not.

Terry

[Wallphone]

As Larry said earlier, ITT bought Kellogg in 1951. I have a panel phone from that era. I heard it from a very reliable source (Roger C.) on the TCI List that for the first year Kellogg was called an associate of ITT.
Here are a couple of pics of my phone with the "Associate" label.
Doug Pav

[Eman]

for your consideration are two itt phones made in canada

(large pix warning)
http://goput.it/mv7.jpg
http://goput.it/mkj.jpg

as you can see they are stamped ITTC, which i assume means ITT Canada

[Stephen Furley]

I'm pretty sure mine is a NE set that's been refurbished with a new Kellogg ITT shell, but if that's the case then it was done a long time ago.  It's different in several ways to my other 500 sets, including the earlier type open centre finger wheel, and the finger stop, which is in a different position.  It's even higher than it is on other WE type dials.  On the others the slot for the finger stop ends just about level with the 'R' of operator, whereas on this one there's a gap of about 7mm between them, which brings the finger stop almost horizontal, which brings it next to the edge of the '0' hole, despite the mounting point being higher up; what type of dial would this be?

I've replaced the dirty, scratched acetate disk over the dial card with a new one.  The card says :

AREA CODE 309

342 - 0 7 6 0

Does anybody know where this was from?

I've untangled the handset cord, and cleaned it, but it still needs a bit more work.  The case also needs a bit of peroxide treatment; should be a nice looking 'phone then.

The Leichs haven't arrived yet, and no card left to say that they tried to deliver them  I'll take some pictures of all of the new 'phones once those arrive.