Wanted, Wiring info for Western Electric 50AL candlestick to 634BA Sub

[Jf510]

I have a 50AL candlestick with a 4H dial wired to a 634BA sub-box. It dials out and rings ok but when I dial the ringer rings and it makes a loud popping sound. I have tried to wire it a few different ways from past info I've seen on this blog but same results. It worked ok with a 5H dial but I wanted to exchange it with a 4H dial. I am stumped. I am a beginner in wiring telephones so can someone give me a simple diagram or wiring explanation on what wire goes to what terminal. My candlestick does not have that small terminal in the bottom just the dial. There is a strap on the back of the candlestick that runs from the W to BB. I removed it but still no difference.  I did strap the R to BB on the dial which I read in the blog but no difference. I have another 50AL that's exact to this one that I wanted to replace the 5H dial with a 2H dial and same situation. I must be doing something wrong. I am however pretty sure I have the sub-box wired correctly.  I did remove all the wires before taking the picture. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[G-Man]

Have you reversed the ringer leads?
Here are schematic diagrams from the TCI Library, for your subset and deskstand.

   
• http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2741-502-200-400-i3-subscriber-sets-634a-ba-c-684a-ba-c-tl
• http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/3483-c63-373-i2-desk-stand-connections-cb

[Jf510]

I will switch the ringer leads and give it a try as for that schematic on the second link I have no clue on what's going on on the left side to be honest.

[G-Man]

I'm not sure what the "left side" is but you should reference the addendum on what wires in the sidetone deskstand's cord are connected to your antisidetone subset.  In this case the following connections should be made:
Deskstand Cord             -              Subset
         Yellow                    to               "L2Y"          
          Red                         to               "R"
         Green                     to              "GN"

[Jf510]

My subset is wired that way. I believe the wiring on my 634 is ok. My problem is the 50AL. I am not convinced the wiring is correct there.

[G-Man]

Forgot to mention, as shown in the addendum, the subset has terminal "BK" strapped to terminal "L2Y."

I'm not sure what the "left side" is but you should reference the addendum on what wires in the sidetone deskstand's cord are connected to your antisidetone subset.  In this case the following connections should be made:
Deskstand Cord             -              Subset
         Yellow                    to               "L2Y"          
          Red                         to               "R"
         Green                     to              "GN"

[G-Man]

My subset is wired that way. I believe the wiring on my 634 is ok. My problem is the 50AL. I am not convinced the wiring is correct there.

Have your reversed the ringer's wiring yet or checked the bias spring adjustment?

[G-Man]

OK, just reread your post. It seemed that you were saying that the ringer was making a "loud popping sound" but I now understand that you meant it to be loud clicks are coming from the receiver while dialing. That would indicate that the dial's shunt-springs are not wired correctly. Follow the schematic for the 50Al as shown in the practice that was linked in my previous reply.

[Jack Ryan]

I don't want to interrupt a fault finding session but I have one question: When you dial "0" to you get 1-or-two loud pops or 10+ loud pops?

The latter might indicate that the dial is not wired properly - in particular, the receiver shunt.

Jack

[G-Man]

I don't want to interrupt a fault finding session but I have one question: When you dial "0" to you get 1-or-two loud pops or 10+ loud pops?

The latter might indicate that the dial is not wired properly - in particular, the receiver shunt.

Jack

Jack, with your level of expertise, you are more than welcome to interrupt. It's always better to have two (or more) heads to determine the best course of action to pursue.

[poplar1]

The W-BB strap on the back side of the rack (opposite side from the switchhook contacts) should be removed when a dial is used. Otherwise, the normally closed contacts on the dial -- which are also W and BB -- are in effect shorted even when they dial has opened them, thus allowing the dial pulses to be hear in the receiver.

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2120-desk-stands-50-tl


Also, when a 2H, 4H, 5H or 6A dial is used rather than a 2A, then BB and R dial terminals should be strapped. If your phone works with one type dial, then it should equally work with any of the others listed.

As stated in the addendum referenced by G-man, this arrangement -- a sidetone desk stand (such as 50AL) connected to an antisidetone subset (such as 634A) should be used only where there are no extensions, i.e., only one phone on the line.

[Jf510]

I will give those suggestions a try in the morning. I am curious on why it did not ring when dialing on the 5 dials but the 4H and 2H both did. I have two sets of candlesticks I am working on. I got these older dials and wanted to put the older ones in my candlestick and thanks for the additional info. I will remove that back strap on the 50AL and I did strap the dial. I didn't know about having extensions causing a problem on a 50AL.

[poplar1]

The restriction on additional extensions is not limited to the 50AL, but, in fact, applies to any sidetone desk stand being used with an anti-sidetone subset, using the diagram referenced. That's because strapping BK and L2-Y in the subset, connects the black capacitor wire (BK terminal in the subset) to L2-Y, which creates a permanent connection that ordinarily would happen only when a desk stand (151-AL) or hand telephone set (202) is off-hook. There just aren't enough contacts in the hookswitch o a 50AL, 51AL, 20AL, or 40AL -- all sidetone -- to be used properly with a 634A.

There is another (WR) method of connecting a sidetone desk stand to an Antisidetone subset, but it doesn't seem to have gained any followers here. Perhaps it's unpopular because it results in a sidetone circuit, rather than the antisidetone circuit -- albeit restricted to no extensions -- shown in the addendum quoted by G-man. However, IMO, the obscure "Wartime Restriction" circuit is better because it does not restrict the number of extensions.

Sidetone subsets (295A, 334A, 534A, 584A) are IMO underrated. One advantage over anti-sidetone subsets is that several phones can be connected to ONE subset, using triple (red, green, yellow) wire to each desk stand or hand telephone set.

Another feature is that anti-sidetone telephones can be used with sidetone subsets, by taping and storing the 4th lead (black) in the mounting cord. The reverse (connecting a sidetone phone to an AST subset, is not as easy), and there are few examples available of the 151-R, 215, etc. sets that were designed specifically for connecting more than one telephone to an AST subset.

[poplar1]

Here is a better 50AL diagram that G-man posted from TCI library:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=13670.msg142966#msg142966

It is shown with a 534A subset.

[Jf510]

Thanks for your help. I followed the 50AL wiring diagram you sent. I also removed the strap on the back of the 50AL from BB to W, I strapped the dial BB to R and strapped the BK to L2Y on the 634. It dials fine with no popping or ringing but now the 634BA won't ring. It did before. This is what I have on the 634: I have the black ringer to BK along with the BK coil, , red ringer to L2Y along with the yellow to 50 AL, yellow of the coil, red line cord lead and strap that goes to BK. The tan coil lead sits by it's self. Not sure if that's correct. What am I now doing wrong?