In the course of writing another post, I was thinking about my son and wondering what thoughts people have about children and telephone collecting. My son is still too young to really engage in a hobby of this sort, but I can see a shared hobby as a way to spend time together doing something that is enjoyable and educational.
When I was growing up, my Dad and I got into coin collecting pretty heavily. As I recall, it is a very popular hobby with lots of well-funded state, local, and national clubs. Our state organization had a great show every year in Indianapolis, with lots of guest speakers, a huge sales floor, and a competition for kids to do an educational display on some aspect of collecting. Judges were officers of the state organization and experts visiting the show. I won some nice pieces for my collection, and one year I even won a scholarship to one of the national organization's conferences in Colorado. When I became a teenager and discovered girls, I got out of coin collecting, but I still cherish what I learned and the time spent with my Dad.
Do ATCA and/or TCI do anything with this aspect of the hobby? I have only been a member of each for a few months, so I am still a bit unfamiliar with what they have to offer. I know that in the case of the coin clubs, getting kids involved with the organizations was seen as a way to boost the membership, pass the hobby along to younger generations, and preserve the history it represented.
I can already tell that my son is a bit interested when I work on phones. He likes to watch me take them apart and explain what different things do. I use it as an opportunity to show him how to treat things carefully, fix them up as opposed to throwing them away, etc. Maybe I am just rambling here, but I just thought I would post some random things that were passing through my head.
IMHO neither club has mounted much of an organized effort such as you suggest. There have been many discussions over the years regarding the need for new member recruiting, but the clubs' efforts are clearly focused (and consumed) on producing several shows a year and their newsletters.
There is a real opportunity to provide some leadership in this area. If you or anyone on the forum would like to contribute time and effort, I'm sure it would be well received.
Both clubs have been offering "youth" memberships over the last few years.
There has also been a lot of discussion on getting new collectors and young people into the clubs.
At 48 I am probably in the lower 20-30% age bracket for the clubs.
While discussing the forum with other club/forum members, we have joked about how the clubs want to find a way to get "new blood" into the hobby,
and it turns out all the "new blood" has their own telephone forum.
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I beleive on the atca website are some educational projects for kids.
Jim
It just seems that if we as parents don't interest our kids in the hobby, it is a rare occurrence for youth to engage in vintage anything.
Kids seem remotely intrigued by vintage items, but for the most part when they see how lacking they are in bells and whistles, they soon loose interest.
My kids love to use the old phones, but Radios, T.V.'s, they just seem very bored with the simplistic way that work, no challenge so to speak, and nostalgic interest just seems to be missing. Most kids seem to be cooped up indoors all the time glued to the video screen.
We can interest our own kids because you know about thew acorn, but to recruit fresh blood will be extremely difficult. Parents aren't involved with what kids are doing as much now, as years ago. We have a hard time understanding there world, and they ours. The Tom's of the world are rare.
Listen to this song and it pretty much wraps it up.
This truly is a "Different World."
D/P
Most kids, other than some of my friends, just find the phones boring. I don't think there is that much we can do to make them like the phones, unless you are a parent, then you can "indoctrinate" them. True, we have Daniel, Kenny, Gusherb, and me on the forum, but we're not normal kids. Here is my friend's response:
"Okay people, rotary phones are just dumb old shitty things of the past. If you seriously love rotary phones -a) you have no life b) you will never get laid.. Now just think about it, THEY ARE F**KIN' phones! There are so much more interesting things in the world, than phones. Okay, so why are kids like me not interested in collecting them (like old perverts such as yourselves)? Well, they are a waste of money, and the only thing you can do with them is talk to some other idiot. But most of the time, the only thing that you will do with these pieces of **** is put them on some shelves and glance at them every once in a blue moon. There is so much more you can do with this money. How 'bout you actually put your greedy money towards helping starving african children, or the BP Crisis. But no, your money is best suited for buying old crap from the past. Why don't you people grow up and get with the 21st century, or take your just take your phone cord, build a nuce, and hang yourself . Thank you." -Eric
Obviously I don't agree or I wouldn't be on the forum to begin with, this is just his honest opinion and probably how most other kids think of rotary phones. If we want children to like the phones, we will have to change their negative perception.
Eric is your friend?
BSP;
I would be curious to know what kind of LIFE Eric has.
Can you tell us how he occupies HIS time ?
D/P
Basically video games and Xbox Live.
My kids play video games on my old school nintendo (1988 vintage).
Jim.
All things considered, I think there are more young people getting into the telephone hobby than ever before.
Jim
Quote from: bellsystemproperty on June 07, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Basically video games and Xbox Live.
Interesting, this guy spends all his time and money on something that is obsolete before he gets to use it, and we are the Dummies.
D/P
Quote from: Dan/Panther on June 08, 2010, 12:07:39 AM
Quote from: bellsystemproperty on June 07, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Basically video games and Xbox Live.
Interesting, this guy spends all his time and money on something that is obsolete before he gets to use it, and you are the Dummy.
D/P
I wonder if he will still be able to use his games when they are 60 years old?
Jim
That's what I asked him too. Will his Xbox work or be able to go online when you're old? Microsoft has already dropped online support for the original Xbox which came out in just late 2001. He was just quiet. A lot of them couldn't go six months without burning up. (sometimes literally). Even our old phones will still work because of touch-tone adapters and ATA's and cell phone adapters a LONG time from now. (my games are on the old school Sega Dreamcast ;))
I get responses like that from people, too. I get asked about why I waste my time and money on stuff that's obsolete and not as good as modern stuff all the time. Why do I need so many phones? Why don't I just get a cordless phone with Caller ID? They're so much better.
My Console TV's get people too, why do I sit here watching this 30" screen with no HD or anything?
My mom always says "Did you ever notice that some people just don't get it?"
I think that's so true.
Tom;
Most people "Just Don't Get it".
Whether I'm into someone Else's hobby or not, I try to show interest when someone takes the time to show me something they take pride in.
D/P
I once met a lady who collected plastic grocery bags.
was doing some work in her house and the topic of collecting came up.
She opened up a kitchen drawer and started showing me the bags she had neatly stored away.
These were the early plastic bags, some were really thick by todays standard, she had one that was the "new" biodegradable bag ect. You could see design "improvements" on the newer bags. She pointed out the subtle differences and progression of the plastic bag technology.
{Pretty much the same things we point out about phones}
She said, "I know people think it is crazy, but I like them".
At that point I realized that there is probably a collector for everything.
Jim
BTW She was very pleased to be able to show her collection to a polite audience. I did learn a bit about plastic bag technology that day.
I know what you mean D/P. I have a good friend who is really heavy into archery and has bows, arrows, etc up the wazoo. I couldn't care less about archery, but I am polite and show interest when he's showing me his stuff.
Quote from: Dan/Panther on June 08, 2010, 02:02:29 AM
Tom;
Most people "Don't Get it".
Whether I'm into someone Else's hobby or not, I try to show interest when someone takes the time to show me something they take pride in.
D/P
Tom;
Collecting for the most part, BEFORE the internet Forums, was a self fulfilling adventure. It was hard to get people to look at your collection, let alone show interest, or even harder to recruit a new collector.
Jim;
You can just imagine someone will come through and clean out all of her bags and call her an eccentric old miser, that didn't even throw away her grocery bags.
BTW, California's legislature pulled another fiasco. They have actually made plastic grocery bags illegal. After January 1, 2011, you can not use plastic grocery bags. Plastic shopping bags have to be the greatest improvement to shopping since the Mall.See how stupid they are, they come up with Plastic bags to save the trees, then turn around and ban the bags to save the landfills. Now what, back to paper ??? What about the trees?
D/P
Dan, here in Michigan, and probably elsewhere, they sell you a reusable bag. That way no paper and no plastic. You just remember to bring your bag with you each time you shop. They even give you a credit, I think it's a dime for every bag you bring with you and fill with groceries.
It's the same here too, except they don't give you any kind of credit for using one. We have some of the reusables but almost always forget to bring them.
Interesting, children are all different, my mates 10 year ol boy, was fascinated with all my dial phones, and my test sets which I had 2 wired up to speak on, even my field magneto phone and its ringing generator.
This lad has been into electrics since a toddler, if he takes it up he'll make a great electrician or electrical engineer.
Was funny the first time he tried the phones and pushed the digits on the dial before his dad "tought" him, was brilliant the look on his face when he figured out how to "move" the dial!
Now I have the PBX, I'm scared his dad is gonna kill me when he potters about with it and asks him for one for his room.
Moral of the story - not all kids are into the same stuff!
plastic bags:
Here in Colorado they sell the reusable ones different sizes and quality for .50- $4.00.
My mom buys the .50 walmart cheapies and uses them as gift bags for birthdays ect.
She used to use the $1 store gift bags for gifts, but decided the reusable shopping bags were cheaper, and also a bonus gift that helps cut down on landfill waste. My wife is pretty good about using re-usable bags, but I am not in the habit .
Over the last couple of years they started single stream* recycling and I do use it. I save about $1.00 a month , and recycle about 200-300 gallons of material a month.
Jim
* Single stream recycling is 1 container for all recyclables (no sorting).
We keep several heavy duty cotton tote bags in each car -- actually about 8 in the van, as we usually take it for grocery shopping. That way, when we forget to take them in, it's just a short walk to the parking lot.
We got most of the bags at yard sales (while looking for phones, of course). Many were in the "free" box, so are also repurposed.
A lot of interesting responses here. I think that it will always be difficult to sell the hobby to kids that don't have a parent, relative, or friend that is into it. However, it seems like a worthwhile venture to encourage kids that show an interest. For me, collecting isn't just about the phones, it is about preserving history. For kids that do have an interest, it can also be a vehicle for learning basic electronics skills, research, bargaining skills, conservation and restoration, and a lot of other important life skills along the way.
I am interested enough in this topic to think about ways that we could encourage young collectors in the hobby and further fuel their interest. One of the challenges of the collector societies is that they are not necessarily "local" organizations, so they don't meet and get personal interaction with the membership that often. I have gone to a couple of shows now and plan to go up to the ATCA national show in August, so maybe that will give me a better feel for what might work.
I'm not saying I want to even recruit people, frankly. More phones for us! I am slightly offended when I don't at least get that obligatory glance. You can't turn anywhere in my place without seeing antiques, a compliment shouldn't be that hard to get.
And the real thing is that I have a HUGE hatred for people who insult your hobby and what you do. It's bologna! I would never insult someone else's hobby, give me the same respect.
Quote from: Dan/Panther on June 08, 2010, 01:26:51 PM
Tom;
Collecting for the most part, BEFORE the internet Forums, was a self fulfilling adventure. It was hard to get people to look at your collection, let alone show interest, or even harder to recruit a new collector.
D/P
Quote from: bellsystemproperty on June 08, 2010, 03:55:02 PM
We have some of the reusables but almost always forget to bring them.
Just jamb a big bag full of previously used plastic shopping bags under the seat of each car and then when you forget to bring your reusable bags along you can get out the plastic bags and reuse them.
We have lots of reusable bags but since they go into the house full of the items you bought, sooner or later you are going to wind up out shopping without them. Thats when you REUSE the plastic bags which is virtually as environmentally responsible. The goal is to not use any more NEW plastic bags.
I see people hauling their groceries home in 10 or 20 shiny new plastic bags and wonder why they can't just bring them back with them next time and use them again if they don't want to buy reusables. No big deal...
Jim,
I think the best way to get kids interested in the hobby is to get teachers interested about old telephone technology.
The best way to get teachers interested would be a web site with some ready made curriculum and Kid related telephone projects.
If someone created and educator/student telephone site, it would be good to have curriclum guides for several age groups. Included should be a condensed telephone history and some good photos.
Their should be some kid related telephone projects, Links to some good telephone sites, museum sites and Fun phone videos.
I know there are some collectors who do talks at their local schools about telephones, you may be able to get some input on what seems to interest kids the most.
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I somtimes donate rotary phones to kindergarten and preschool classrooms. I also give away mod 500 sets to kids who like them.
An electrical box with batteries and a double jack for plugging in a rotary and a TT phone w/ talk battery between them. This is a fun "toy" for young kids and since it is interactive, they would probably remember it.
Just some thoughts,
Jim
Jim;
Could you draw up a quick diagram for the circuit using a wall wart for power.
D/P
D/P,
I can't draw on the computer and my scanner must be mad at the computer because they aren't currently talking.
It was long ago and I would like to construct and test the circuit before I post it. Using a wall wart should work, battery is nice due to clean DC . a transformer may cause noise. also it requires the use of a bit of "handiness" {drilling, soldering ect.}, a quality that many folks don't have (present company excepted)
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Ralph meyers book shows 9 volt DC in series with 2 phones for a simple intercom. Simply put the power between 1 tip and the other ring. Jumper the other tip and ring together.
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I guess the question is: do you want a collector/hobby circuit or a simple circuit that a teacher could rig up?
For a teacher set up I would say to try not to modify the phones, just set-up the battery in a dual jack box. I am thinking I went parallel and the talk path worked and you got side-tone and TT with 1 phone off hook. I think I had to reverse the feed to 1 jack.
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It has been close to 15 years since I played around with "telephone based toys".
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Ralph Meyers book has a lot of simple circuits for private intercom lines.
The simplest is a battery in series with the phones. Ralph shows a 9 volt battery between them. I think I was using "c" cells. I was only using 2-6' mod cords between the jacks.
With series you only get talk battery when both phones are off hook.
Ralph 's circuits are mainly using 6vdc lantern batteries.
There are a lot of ways you can convert telephones into interactive toys:
I rigged up 1 stand alone 500 with a pair of D cells in place of the ringer and installed a 3vdc buzzer inside. The buzzer was hooked to the battery and pulsing contacts from the dial, when you dialled the buzzer would pulse buzz.
on a 2500 (stand alone) I put the batteries in place of the ringer (stand alone) so that the TT would work.
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In Ralph's book he shows a test set made with a 2500 that uses batteries and is the power supply for an intercom, just plug your other phone into the back of the test set.. Keep in mind that this doesn't have signaling.
His set uses 4 AA cells. For connecting the fine wires of the isolation transformer I crimped a mod end on the transformer wires and used a 4 cond. mod jack. I had to convert a 3 cond mod jack by stealing a wire from a broken jack and adding it.
It did occur to me to add a buzzer to each phone and using the spare pair for signaling purposes, but I never tried to do it. With this case you would need some sort of signalling button or the pulsing contacts to signal the other phone. You may need to up the talk battery voltage to get good results.
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I did try to dope out a 2 phone 4 wire local battery circuit.(back in the day) Each phone had it's own battery that was additive for the talk circuit and the signalling used the spare pair. Each buzzer was powered by it's local battery, I had to switch one pos. and the other neg. I never tried it, but it appeared doable on paper.
Signal voltage was 1/2 of talk voltage.
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I think I pointed out enough things to get some forum folks playing around on creating "Interactive play phones".
Why don't folks play out some circuits and post them for everyone.
For experimental purposes you only need a toner or a battery holder for talk battery.
Jim
I'm not a kid anymore, I'm 23. Sure, still young, but I've matured more sense I was younger. Though, my friends, of which are usually older than me, always tell me how mature I am for my age.
But anyways, I LOVE old things. Without these things we wouldn't be where we are today. But I also love newer tech too, as some things I "have" to upgrade.
My old tech:
WE 302
WE 500
Atari 2600
NES, SNES, N64
Sega Genesis (almost all models of the system and it's hardware varients), Sega CD, Sega 32X
Commodore 64
IBM PS/2 Model 25 - An all-in-one XT system with a monochrome LCD, Intel 8086 CPU (replaced with an NEC V30) and 8087 co-CPU, and hacked with VGA graphics for 256 shades of grey and 16 shades of grey in 640x480
Betamax!
Old VHS deck (top loader style)
PlayStation (the original)
Fisher 800c Tube receiver
Pioneer LaserDisc Player and slightly large collection of discs
I'm sure I have a few more old things, but the oldest is the WE 302 phone, of which I LOVE..
Newer things that I have:
Samsung 40" 1080p LCD
Mac Pro 8x core, 32GB RAM
PS3 (Mainly for bluray and DVDs and networked media, not for games)
5.1 DTS/Dolby Digital receiver Sony
iPod Touch 2nd gen
Motorola Razr V3xx - European model (for it's 2 cameras) - not used usually, only for emergencies or texting friends because they don't believe in calling my home phone for some reason..
So yea, I'm not like others, but I do love collecting.. My biggest thing in collecting however is LaserDiscs, I collect the discs like the plaque. Even if I see a box, I buy the box.
Speaking of "Old Stuff" ..... is there an "old" collector out there who would like an RCA VFT650 Top loading VCR from 1981?
I can't bring myself to send it to electronic recycling since it is almost 30 years old. I asked on the TCI list awhile back but no one actually wanted me to send it to them.
It works but I haven't been able to locate the remote for it although I suspect it is around here somewhere. There is a flip open door on the front that broke off and hasn't been seen for awhile as well.
Terry
I'd love to have it, but without the door, that's a deal breaker for me. I like having a complete product.
Besides, shipping on that suckers gonna be high, cause it will be heavy, of which I can't spend any money since I'm saving up for a movie camera right now.
I have a new LG Bliss Cell phone and a Satellite Dish and a laptop.
My Console TV's are the next newest technology. Need I say more?
Brandon;
What type camera are you looking for. I have a Super 8MM Sound Bell & Howell, I'd be interested in making a deal, it's in Box as new.
D/P
Quote from: mmd on June 09, 2010, 11:43:58 PM
I'd love to have it, but without the door, that's a deal breaker for me.
Yeah I know, the little missing door/cover is too bad. The missing remote maybe isn't as bad.
Someone had the identical unit on ebay asking $49 and it doesn't work! I can't help thinking someone would like to get my working VFT650 and the complete non working VFT650 on ebay to make one good one.
And yeah, it weighs a few pounds all right.....about the same as a UNIVAC computer.
Anyway, I'll keep it around a bit longer so if somone stumbles onto this thread who just has to have it.......
Terry
I used to have a pioneer laser disc player (1994 vintage) with the optional sega pack. it was like new with all the packaging/ books ect. I watched less than 100 movies on it and our disc rental place closed down. I kept it until about 2006 then I finally donated it when I was cleaning up.
Originally it was special priced at $1,500 with the $350.00 sega pack as a free bonus.(+ 3 games and the special edition Fantasia) The company I worked for used to sell them as special order. Our competitor got stuck with 3 of them @ model change and offered them to my boss. He offered them to them to the employees at cost if we wanted them (he bought none for inventory).
My cost was $350.00 in 1994. They had a very impressive picture.
I may still have Fantasia and the Whoppie Goldberg movie "Telephone".
If I find the discs I will let you know.
Jim
Quote from: Dan/Panther on June 10, 2010, 01:33:10 AM
Brandon;
What type camera are you looking for. I have a Super 8MM Sound Bell & Howell, I'd be interested in making a deal, it's in Box as new.
D/P
Actually I'm going for a newer camera, so I can edit in Final Cut Pro.
It's a Panasonic AG-HMC40... I don't have the means of editing in film, or a system to even capture it to a medium to display online (since this movie is going to be a free internet movie).
Quote"Okay people, rotary phones are just dumb old poopty things of the past. If you seriously love rotary phones -a) you have no life b) you will never get laid.. Now just think about it, THEY ARE F**KIN' phones! There are so much more interesting things in the world, than phones. Okay, so why are kids like me not interested in collecting them (like old perverts such as yourselves)? Well, they are a waste of money, and the only thing you can do with them is talk to some other idiot. But most of the time, the only thing that you will do with these pieces of **** is put them on some shelves and glance at them every once in a blue moon. There is so much more you can do with this money. How 'bout you actually put your greedy money towards helping starving african children, or the BP Crisis. But no, your money is best suited for buying old crap from the past. Why don't you people grow up and get with the 21st century, or take your just take your phone cord, build a nuce, and hang yourself . Thank you." -Eric
Ah the joy of the Internet, freeing people from ordinary things like civility and kindness.
But that's another topic...
As our plastic bag collector story shows everything that can be collected is. Humans like to gather about them things that they find enjoyable, meaningful and just plain cool. Eric will probably figure this out as he ages, and hopefully lighten up, I'm sure we could find a collection of something at his place, be it video games, music, ball caps or who knows what.
I'm not sure that the classic era phones we collect will still find many takers in 50 more years. Most of us here have direct memories of using these phones as the only game in town, you wanted to call _________ and you had the use the 500 in the hall, or the 354 in the kitchen. Once those of us with a living connection to the phones are gone the only ones left will be people who understand and like the style and quality of them.
It's been talked about here of the fall off in interest for wooden wall phones of the late 19th and early 20th century. Speculation is that the loss of people with direct connections to that era drives the lowering interest.
My own son has a certain interest in the phones, he will look for them at yard sales for me if he's passing by, and he will occasionally watch me putter on one. But he's not interested in collecting them himself, though he certainly will one day have a large and instant old phone collection when I kick off! :D That's going to be a heckuva yard sale friends, better get there early! ;)
Eric used to be interested in phones, but lost interest. He even came to the San Jose phone show. A lot of my other friends are just neutral about the phones. They're just something that's there.
I dont know if this is the right thread, but look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkuirEweZvM
dsk
This thread looks like a very good match dsk. Good searching!
Terry