This is an odd one. I haven't been collecting long , but I have NEVER seen anything like this. How about you guys? Paul-F, this may be a good one to add to your site. Feel free to post a picture from this auction.
http://tinyurl.com/6t5cynk
Dan.....this is a really great phone!!
Bingster...this would be a great Name that Price....Doug
Notice the IV 32 date. Fourth Quarter 1932!! How cool is this phone!!!....Doug
It's interesting that there was a 4-5 year gap between this phone and the official release of the 302. It sure is an interesting phone. I would love to have pockets deep enough for this :)
Larry
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on November 17, 2011, 11:20:38 AM
It's interesting that there was a 4-5 year gap between this phone and the official release of the 302. It sure is an interesting phone. I would love to have pockets deep enough for this :)
Larry
There are two bidders that seldom lose. This will be 5 figures!....Doug
Paul F. has a picture of that on his website.
http://www.paul-f.com/weproto.html
Third picture down.
Never seen one like this before, but it looks like the AE40 has been inspired by this design.
The design is much more delicate then the 302, but probably less practical.
If I got one like that, I would never called it a prototype, rather a one from a pilot or test series.
It is obviously used money on expensive molding tools, I guess they had intentions of making a lot of them. They also made wiring diagrams.
Some states the 302 (and maybe this one) is inspired of the Norwegian designer Jean Heiberg s design for Elektrisk Bureau and L M Erisson. http://tinyurl.com/84aw5w5 (http://tinyurl.com/84aw5w5)
By some reason they did not make lots of this model. By my guess, to expensive molding.
dsk
Someone who's good at pictures ought to capture ALL of the pictures in that listing and post them here in this topic, for future reference. No copyright issues if it's not for profit but for critical review and similar purposes, or something like that.
I'm going to guess $24,000, based on the fact that one of the few surviving WE 300-series with pushbutton dialing (using plucked reeds to produce the tones) went for a little over $17,000 a few years ago. This 1932 prototype is quite a bit more rare than that, with only two examples known: the one on Paul's site and this one.
Let's hope that whoever ends up with that one is a member of the community rather than just someone with idle curiosity and deep pockets. That or 200 of us each chipping in a little over $100 ought to do it, and then put it in one of the public museums of telephony.
Interior view of the one on Paul's site is here:
http://www.paul-f.com/wep302.html#D95647
and interestingly for WE, they have pasted a schematic inside the housing.
From the Ebay pictures, there is no rear cord entry at all: so both cords must have entered through the single opening at the left. This is indicative of the WE design being inspired somewhat by the Norwegian Ericsson 1931 bakelite desk set that soon thereafter was adopted by GPO as the 332. Dreyfuss himself is quoted as saying that Bell approached him because they thought "the Swedish telephone" as it was known, would be a good starting place for the design of a new desk set for the US. (As with the Ericofon and the Trimline; history repeats itself.)
And lo & behold, WE's next pre-302 prototype has both cords exiting from a small hole at the center rear of the phone: just as with GPO 332.
Also notice about the 1932 prototype, it appears to have a leather pad under its entire surface, just as the B1 and D1 sets do.
To my eyes, the 1932 prototype looks a wee bit goofy, like the way a cat looks when it stretches out and relaxes on the rug, all flattened out but with its ears sticking up:-)
Probably, the only one that will prevent 195bdwy from getting that phone is nana011 who has yet to bid.
Chuck
Quote from: cihensley@aol.com on November 17, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
Probably, the only one that will prevent 195bdwy from getting that phone is nana011 who has yet to bid.
Chuck
Chuck ....Dean doesn't Lose many. Back in the old days when you could see who won auctions, I would follow his bidding. 195 Broadway and I'd just give up. Jon who just won the $600 Imperial was another. He was doing 10K a month on eBay Yes... a month I think this will go sky high...Doug
As you can see from the timeline on my site, this was one of the early attempts to build a "combined set."
It did go to field trial, and apparently got some constructive feedback. The weight and footprint were obvious issues. The capacitor was redesigned to save space, a handle was added and several later field trial sets were developed before the production design was finalized.
It is certainly a significant milestone in phone development. It's one of the few sets I'm aware of that use the A1 ringer. (Note the subtle differences between it and the B1.)
I know of several others in collections -- most without dials.
IMHO, this is nowhere close to the plucked-reed pushbutton set that sold in October 2008. Now that one was RARE! And it's internal components are downright strange. It was covered in the December 2008 Singing Wires.
Those that haven't read about it can view the article in the sample Singing Wires issue on the TCI site here:
http://www.telephonecollectors.org/singwire/samples/0812sw.pdf
Quote from: GG on November 17, 2011, 12:08:27 PM
To my eyes, the 1932 prototype looks a wee bit goofy, like the way a cat looks when it stretches out and relaxes on the rug, all flattened out but with its ears sticking up:-)
I think it looks pretty neat and streamlined, like the model spent time in wind tunnel tests. "A more aerodynamic telephone".
"A more aerodynamic telephone," dude you just got a nomination for "the quote of the year" with that one. Instant viral meme, as with "listen for tone, put fingers in holes and make little circles."
That said, look at the angle of the front of the housing. Compare to an A1 base, which was the same as used in WE desk stands. Compare to a production 302 and a production 500. Compare also to the GEC article about the GEC-1000.
The prototype has a much flatter angle for the dial than would be adopted on the production model. This says something about what the designers thought would be the most likely scenario for the user looking at the phone while dialing. Question is, what would that be?, and compared to what for the production 302?
And then, since the 500 mounted the dial at a flatter angle than the 302, what changed in the envisioned usage scenario?
I have a dim, possibly false, memory of one of these minus dial selling on e-bay last year. Or was it the year before that? I seem to recall that the price was surprisingly low, something like 2 or 3 grand.
Anyone else recall that and know the exact facts?
after seeing the pics, I'm glad it was a prototype! the final version is soooo much nicer... I perfer to 300 series to the 500 because its more compact. the 500 series just seems bulky compared to the 302... I love mine! and they work so well....
Quote from: McHeath on November 19, 2011, 02:19:15 AM
I have a dim, possibly false, memory of one of these minus dial selling on e-bay last year.
Me too. But I recall even less than you. I would say at least two years ago, possibly more.
Terry
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on November 17, 2011, 11:20:38 AM
It's interesting that there was a 4-5 year gap between this phone and the official release of the 302. Larry
$2600 now with just over 5 days to go. 8 bidders with a total of 29 bids so far.
I was thinking about the gap between this prototype and the release of the 302. The depression. Telco's were losing customers to disconnects so there wouldn't be much new equipment being purchased from Western Electric. Not much dial equipment or even manual switchboards and certainly not many new phones. WECo probably put the project on hold themselves to save some cash on their side as well.
Into 1932 things were really getting bad and it wasn't until 1936 that there was some light at the end of the tunnel.
What this one phone sells for on ebaY would have probably funded research on its develeopement for quite awhile back then!
Good luck to the forum member who is in the bidding war!
Terry
QuoteWhat this one phone sells for on ebaY would have probably funded research on its develeopement for quite awhile back then!
What the winner of this auction pays may very well exceed the original development cost of this phone :)
I doubt that the seller fully appreciated what he had.
Larry
Seller has been on eBay for some time dealing in high end telephones. He is selling some quality Paystations as well. He hasn't been around much this year. My guess is knew exactly what he had....but just a guess....Doug
I agree. He's also a former TCI member and was active in shows for many years.
This one just closed at $3,150.00. I don't have Terry's handles list, but I think the winner is one of the deep pocketed bidders that regularly wins this type of offering. It would look nice in my showcase, but that won't be happening anytime soon.
The winner is not one of the 2 usual high bidders but he is a member of ATCA.
Only $3,150? Given that an AE 40 in lilac/turquoise just went for $5k, that seems like whoever got this one got a heck of a deal. Especially since, unlike AE 40s, there are never going to be high-quality reproductions of these prototype sets (Ray or someone else), so the supply of these is very finite.
Quote from: GG on November 27, 2011, 04:48:19 AM
Given that an AE 40 in lilac/turquoise just went for $5k,
Orchid turned Turquoise/light blue & $3999.00 was final price.
Quote from: GG on November 27, 2011, 04:48:19 AM
that seems like whoever got this one got a heck of a deal.
Agreed!
Terry
That's a lot of money but it does seem like a reasonable amount for such a historic phone. Interesting that we have seen prototypes for both the 300 and 500 series come to light on E-Bay. This phone for one, and my dim memory of a dial less version on E-Bay some time ago, and then of course D/P's very sensational prototype 500 that he found on E-Bay as well.
Quote from: Jester on November 26, 2011, 09:21:08 PM
I don't have Terry's handles list, but I think the winner is one of the deep pocketed bidders that regularly wins this type of offering.
e***h 1148 has been moving up the rungs of the ladder of high bids lately. He is definitely collecting some nice phones.
Terry