Bought an AE34 for $65 plus shipping. Arrived, no ringer assembly! Not mentioned. Body is nice.
Wow, you got a great deal!! I haven't seen a single AE34 sell for under $100! The ringer and any other internal parts are probably very easily replaceable. Does that have gold or bare brass trim?
Nice phone!
How would you tell?
Seems like a good deal to me. Nice phone!
Nick
Quote from: Jrs1958 on January 05, 2017, 08:42:56 PM
Arrived, no ringer assembly!
An AE 34 without a ringer doesn't ring a bell but it looks like it never had one.
Nice buy.
Jack
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on January 05, 2017, 08:46:41 PM
Does that have gold or bare brass trim?
It has black trim. Did I miss something?
Jack
Jrs1958,
That's not a bad price for your phone . It has the updated capsule transmitter adapter kit for the 38 handset. It has the different mouthpiece, to accommodate the 41 transmitter capsule , and conversion springs . Great find !! stub
Excuse my ignorance, are those "upgrades" a good thing or does it take away its originality?
Quote from: Jrs1958 on January 05, 2017, 09:36:22 PM
Excuse my ignorance, are those "upgrades" a good thing or does it take away its originality?
It's not a bad thing and it means that the sound quality might be good. Be careful with the springs though, they break.
Jack
It is not uncommon for AE34s to be missing their ringers, and the ringers are hard to find. Nevertheless, you got a very good deal.
Larry
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on January 05, 2017, 09:48:09 PM
It is not uncommon for AE34s to be missing their ringers, and the ringers are hard to find. Nevertheless, you got a very good deal.
Larry
Is it? I have seen a lot with the wrong ringer that someone has fitted to replace a frequency ringer.
This one doesn't look like it ever had one and I can't see any loose wires.
Jack
Is it possible it never had a ringer? Did AE34s come that way?
It has very clear marking on the bottom. Would that indicate anything?
Jrs1958,
Here's mine with original ringer . If you decide to get one ,the hardest part will be finding the angle bracket that holds the ringer. stub
Bottom is stamped AL 220 AQ or A0. Also stamped FA3
Jrs1958,
Here's a pic of the bottom of your phone . It looks like it had screws in at one time and the capacitor has leads soldered on it . The ringer leads go on the induction coil at 5 and 10 and capacitor connects to 4 and 10. stub
left click on pic to enlarge it
Jrs1958,
Some of the 34's came with a ringer laying down flat also as shown (pic ) yours will need the bracket . stub
So now the magic question, does anybody have one they want to sell?
Welcome. Nice phone for a great price. No one mentioned the fingerwheel yet, nice find. That is a cut away fingerwheel, also called easy clean and a couple of other names I can't recall right now. You can always add an electronic ringer in the meantime until you find the correct replacement. It may have been removed to use as an illegal extension.
Yes the missing ringer with that special angle on the mounting frame to fit into the case is the problem. But, $65 is a good deal none the less!
Terry
Quote from: Jrs1958 on January 05, 2017, 10:20:05 PM
Bottom is stamped AL 220 AQ or A0. Also stamped FA3
L-220 is one of the first catalog numbers for the 34A3, found in 1934 when the set was introduced. We still don't know what the difference was between L–series and AL–. It was the standard set for induction coil service and metallic ringing, meaning it had a two-conductor cord with ringing signal applied across tip and ring. So, yes it did have a ringer installed. I am not aware that there was a model without ringer, but it is quite possible of course that the installer removed it and connected the set to an existing subscriber set, simply replacing a candlestick perhaps. I don't know how common that practice was at the time, perhaps it is more likely it got lost much later.
A0 (A zero) stands for having a dial installed. At that time it would have been a Type 24 dial.
There is a thread about putting a mini ringer into an AE phone.
I think you got a deal. I do not think the seller knew it was missing a ringer. I have seen small donut size signal corps ringers in a AE34. They are easy to find and install. I know I have one somewhere :-[......nice phone at a great price....Doug
Remember if someone has a bad SL ringer or a freq ringer with the proper mounting bracket,you can use parts from the larger ringer out of a tyoe 40 set.Watch the impedence of the coils if salvaged from a freq ringer.Parts will interchange between the brackets.I rebuilt many otherwise bad or useless this way.
The patent label on the bottom of your phone tells me that your set is a very early issue. It was manufactured no later than August 1934.
Here are the patents listed on the label:
US1615311 1927 1923 Obergfell AE--Impulse-sending device
US1642822 1927 1924 Obergfell AE--Calling Device
US1689598 1928 1925 Pye AEL--Telephone Substation Circuits
US1719992 1929 1925 Obergfell AEL--Calling Device
US1738919 1929 1927 Obergfell AEL--Telephone Desk Set
US1878800 1932 1931 Obergfell AEL--Electromagnetic Device (induction coil)
USD86263 1932 1931 Obergfell AEL--Design for a Telephone Desk Stand
The label does not contain the following patent for the handset, which was not issued until late in August 1934:
US1971499 1934 1932 Obergfell AEL--Telephone Handset
AE was quite vigilant in updating these labels, some of them came in dozens of issues,[PS: or so it appears] so it provides a good way to estimate the vintage of a set.
Terrific find! To put it in perspective, Western Electric did not come out with a combined telephone until three years later. Your set was quite the innovation at the time, and came in a package of Art Deco styling that endured until the early 1960s (in the AE Type 40). It was designed in a period of extreme hardship in American business, 1931 to 1933. Western Electric of course was also designing and planning the 300-series already, but the recession likely slowed the process down as it had to deal with the burden of a huge enterprise in a shrinking market, while AE only manufactured equipment.
Great! Thank you for all the information!
I have long wondered how close the various patent number labels could possibly narrow down the manufacture date of various AE phones from this era. I already have lists the patent numbers on quite a few combinations of these labels from the AE sets. So what we need is as complete of a list of different labels along with all the patent numbers found on each label, look the dates up associated with each patent number and then make up a cross reference indicating the likely manufacture date range if you have "this" particular patent label.
Terry
Quote from: AE_Collector on January 06, 2017, 11:54:54 PM
I have long wondered how close the various patent number labels could possibly narrow down the manufacture date of various AE phones from this era. I already have lists the patent numbers on quite a few combinations of these labels from the AE sets. So what we need is as complete of a list of different labels along with all the patent numbers found on each label, look the dates up associated with each patent number and then make up a cross reference indicating the likely manufacture date range if you have "this" particular patent label.
Terry
I use a list of probably close to 50 patents, and haven't encountered a new one missing for some time. I also keep a database of patent label images.
This is a work in progress, for sure. The most frequent patent labels are a collection of only about a half dozen, despite that the issue numbers of the D-780504-A labels are numbered up to 41 in a time span of only a decade or so. Perhaps the issue numbers were not simply incremented by unity, but it appears so based on -A29 and -A30, both of ~1942. But it is odd that A30 (later than A29 ?) is lacking the AE40 circuit patent which was assigned in 1940 already. I think we should assume that they were numbered monotonically, at least. Perhaps someone made a mistake.
For the AE40 sets I don't have any labels recorded between A30 and A41 currently.
As we would expect, there were periods when fewer patent awards were recorded, and some types of patented work 'bunch up" around model release times, also to be expected. But even finer adjustments in technology do show up in the patent record on these labels. An example is the quiet pulse pawl of dial no. 51, as all sets made starting 1952, until Northlake, show the patent listed (US2581648 1952 1949 Gienger AEL--Silent Pawl and Ratchet).
The patent is a sure way to spot sets made between 1952 and 1957, at least in Chicago.
Quote from: AE_Collector on January 06, 2017, 11:54:54 PM
I have long wondered how close the various patent number labels could possibly narrow down the manufacture date of various AE phones from this era. I already have lists the patent numbers on quite a few combinations of these labels from the AE sets. So what we need is as complete of a list of different labels along with all the patent numbers found on each label, look the dates up associated with each patent number and then make up a cross reference indicating the likely manufacture date range if you have "this" particular patent label.
Terry
But to answer your question, the granularity is not great in year assignment when going by patent labels alone, but it sure helps. I think in the case of this 34A3, we are lucky that the handset patent award was delayed by two years. The only other explanation would be that the person in charge of labeling made a mistake. Does anyone else have a set that is clearly older than this one ?
Yes it is possible. Do you have it or any other pictures of it? If it is the newer model with type 41 handset it might not have the type of ringer you need either.
Check this topic.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=14802.0
Terry
That's a very nice and early set. But the handset has been replaced, and I am wondering whether the housing has been replaced too to accommodate the newer handset. AE made a special housing for that purpose, the 34A3B.
The ordering number L-220 A0 (on the wiring label) is the first catalog number of these in the catalog of 1934. The set was intended for individual line service with metallic ringing with a two-conductor cord.
ok, rereading history of this topic... you were missing a ringer in your first set ?
I would swap the entire base.
What does the new one look like on the bottom ?
Wow, with gold trim. The black sets were indeed available with satin gold trim, just like the color sets. You have to keep that dial with the handset.
Personally, I like to keep sets the way they were found, unless I have good reason to believe they were already mixed up by someone other than the telephone company.
From previous discussions on this Forum we learned that the housings for those sets with the Type 41 handset were slightly different in the geometry of the cradle, and the 1940 catalog warns of that too.
Don't understand how the "insides look like they are from a WE302". What does it look like ?
Or did someone simply brass out the black painted parts ? Looking at the details of the finger wheel, it almost seems like it.
Quote from: Jrs1958 on January 18, 2017, 09:54:14 PM
Inside of other 302
Oh, it is an AE or ITT (?) transmission unit and an AE high impedance ringer.
That should work pretty well, technically.
But indeed, not authentic, I might indeed be tempted to swap it out.
Quote from: Jrs1958 on January 18, 2017, 09:55:34 PM
Ae34
That is an interesting hook switch modification. No doubt it was constructed to support the functionality of a 'modern' hook switch.
Someone took care of the technical aspects.
Perhaps it was done at a commercial refurbisher, such as COT. Our member rdelius might want to chime in.
Are you planning on actually using one of the sets, or are you collecting for historic accuracy?
For using, this set that with new internals would likely work best.
You have so many parts now, you can choose what to do. A set for use and another for accuracy.
In the end you still have one set without ringer. This is a common problem when buying extra sets to get parts, it may be hard to decide which combination is best.
Wow, so you have 3 - 34 sets now?! Where have you been getting them from...eBay?
I assume the 2nd one is brassed out but as Unbeldi says, black with Gold Matte trim was an option just like the more commonly seen combination of black with Chrome trim.
The 3rd one has AE80 network and ringer. That switch hook is something else! Amazing the work that went into it. Too bad it didn't have the proper ringer in it as then you would have everything needed to make two complete original sets.
Check to see if #2 handset sits completely down in the cradle. That newer handset is slightly wider and if it is the old original Bakelite housing tge newer handset fits awkwardly, not sitting completely down in the cradle in some positions (moving it side to side).
So to summarize:
#1 - proper except no ringer.
#2 - proper except has newer type 41 handset
#3 - correct outside except brassed out metal but not even close inside. Likely a better "daily driver".
Not knowing where you want to get to, as Unbeldi suggested use the 3rd one as a not correct daily driver. You could move the handsets between #1 & #2 so that #2 is correct leaving #1 with wrong handset and no ringer. Then eBay it as is, keep it around as spare parts, make it work and sell it to someone who wants a working old desk phone and isnt concerned about originality.
Terry
The conversion was not COT.Why replace the old hookswitch when it could be reused ?.lots of extra work
Yes that hook switch is interesting. Maybe someone really messed to original one up. Anyone (like COT) who had loads of AE 40's on hand would have just got a replacement from an otherwise busted up old 40.
Terry
Jrs:
How are you doing at figuring out what to do with your three AE34 sets?
Can you post some more pictures of the inside of your first 34? Showing any labels and writing on the dial, condenser etc. Also a couple of pictures of the underside of the handset and inside the handset showing any markings on transmitter and receiver if you can open it. I think the only pictures of the first AE34 are in your initial post, correct?
Thanks,
Terry
Terry, I will get you more photos later today.
More pics
Pics
Pics
Thanks for the additional pictures.
That's quite a collection of AE 34's you have there!
Terry