Cutting out vault door on 1D?

[dayoff]

Thanks to the help on the forum, I was able to get a key for the upper half of my 1D phone and open it up... Unfortunately, the bottom vault door with the 30D lock is still an issue.  After going through a lot of attempts of using titanium bits and making nearly no progress (literally...nothing) with my drill press on the lock, I decided I'm probably better off destroying the front vault door to get inside...then finding a new lock and vault door.

Is there a preferred method to do this, to hopefully minimize the damage to the non-door parts of the housing?  I saw some posts saying people used rotozip's and opening it up in 20 minutes...but that seems a bit optimistic.  I can see 4 latches on the side of the vault door, but wouldn't cutting those 4 bits still leave the vault door intact, since there are 'tabs' under the vault door that will still be intact? (I'm thinking I would have to drill through the vault door itself, at top/bottom/left/right sides, perhaps about an inch away from the vault door edges.?

Any tips are appreciated...thanks!
Pete

[AE_Collector]

If this vault door is similar to AE types, besides the 4 locking levers there is another lever that is engaged by the actual lock which prevents the whole mechanism from being turned with a T Key until the lock is unlocked.

One cut in the right place through the vault door will cut this lever allowing a T Key to turn the mechanism in the normal manner removing the door.

Others will have to provide more detailed info though it is likely covered here somewhere!

Terry

[Ktownphoneco]

Pete   ....    Could you post a picture of the vault door.     I have a method in mind, but I'd like to see the door first to see if it's feasible.

Thanks.

Jeff Lamb
 

   

[dsk]

It should be possible to drill out the existing lock, less work and smaller risk to destroy the housing.
Could you please post pictures of the vault door, and the lock. 

If the lock looks like this, you should try to drill a hole filling the yellow circle. Do not drill more than the length of the key, probably some less.  When you have got out all the pins, just turn the drum withe a screwdriver, and maybe some force.  Then use the T key on the vault door.   

dsk

[Ktownphoneco]

Pete / DSK   .....     Ok, scratch my idea.       I take it that's an inner vault door which has an outer door over it.     If the lock in question is a Medeco, there are 2 main problems you'll encounter if your trying to drill the lock.       Medeco use round hardened steel pins in both the face of the plug ( the plug is the part you insert the key into ), and in the face of the cylinder ( the part that surrounds the plug ).    The hardened pins are directly in front of the bottom pins located in the plug, and in front of the top pins located in the cylinder.       That pretty much prevents drilling, as it causes the drill bit to slide off to either side of the locking pins ( bottom and top ).       The second problem, involves a secondary locking device that Medeco incorporate into their locks, and that's called a "side bar".      The side bar has it's own set of pins which keep it securely in place unless the proper key is inserted in the plug.    Side bars are usually "V" shaped, and extends along the axis of the lock, front to back.    The side bar sits in a groove along the axis of the plug, and the "V" shaped face of the side bar sits in a "V" shaped groove running the length of the cylinder.
Even if the top and bottom pins are successfully destroyed with a drill, the side bar will continue to keep the lock securely locked.
Under other circumstances, I've managed to grind the upper face off the plug, and the face of the cylinder with a high speed grinder, but if the lock face is recessed, or other otherwise surrounded by the metal outer door, there's no way to grind the face off the plug or the cylinder.     
See attached picture fro a better idea of what I'm talking about.     The scanned picture is a cam lock, but it best shows the anti drill pins and side bar.    The lock in you picture is most likely either a mortise lock, or what called a rim cylinder type of lock.

If Pete's lock "is not" a Medeco, then drilling in the yellow circle shown by "DSK" in his picture, is the best bet.    As a side note, drilling any type of lock is best accomplished using  "GOOD" quality Cobalt drill bits.

Jeff Lamb

[dayoff]

I may have to review some of the posts once I'm on a non mobile browser... I have a modeco which has been resistant to like every high end bit I've tried on it...

Trying to drill the front vault door right now but not getting very far...

Pete

[ESalter]

If your phone is a WE and had a 29A type upper lock, chances are it has a WE 30C vault lock, which is nearly impossible to drill and even if somehow you do drill a hole all the way through the lock, that won't help you get it open.  I have a vault door that someone at the TelCo made marks on showing where to cut, but I don't have it handy to take a photo for you.  If you make an incision with a cutoff wheel just to the outside of where you have the line drawn, you should hit the face of the lock bolt and be able to cut it away gradually.  When that is gone, you can then just remove the vault door with a T key.  I'll take apart the phone I have in the living room and take some photos with measurements for you in just a sec.

---Eric

[ESalter]

Ok, I was wrong about where to cut.  It looks like if you stick a wedge between the vault door and the frame of the phone on the side opposite the coin return and stick a cutoff wheel in the space you created with the wedge, that is where you will be able to cut the face of the lock bolt.  I attached several pictures of both the vault door and inside the vault.  I hope you're able to get it open!

---Eric

[dayoff]

Eric, thank you very much!  I got it open....basically wasn't haven't a lot of luck, so I went around the entire outside frame and popped the center off.  Used a harbor freight cutting wheel (the el-cheapo one they have for like $9)...and that got a hole started on the line, then I used a metal blade on a sawzall to cut the rest of the way down the line (and through anything in it's way.  It rubbbed against the coin box a bit, but I got it out.. Will send some pics...

Pete

[dayoff]

Here's a couple pics...

[DavePEI]

Pete / DSK   .....     Ok, scratch my idea.       I take it that's an inner vault door which has an outer door over it.     If the lock in question is a Medeco, there are 2 main problems you'll encounter if your trying to drill the lock.       Medeco use round hardened steel pins in both the face of the plug ( the plug is the part you insert the key into ), and in the face of the cylinder ( the part that surrounds the plug ).    The hardened pins are directly in front of the bottom pins located in the plug, and in front of the top pins located in the cylinder.       That pretty much prevents drilling, as it causes the drill bit to slide off to either side of the locking pins ( bottom and top ).       The second problem, involves a secondary locking device that Medeco incorporate into their locks, and that's called a "side bar".      The side bar has it's own set of pins which keep it securely in place unless the proper key is inserted in the plug.    Side bars are usually "V" shaped, and extends along the axis of the lock, front to back.    The side bar sits in a groove along the axis of the plug, and the "V" shaped face of the side bar sits in a "V" shaped groove running the length of the cylinder.
Even if the top and bottom pins are successfully destroyed with a drill, the side bar will continue to keep the lock securely locked.
Under other circumstances, I've managed to grind the upper face off the plug, and the face of the cylinder with a high speed grinder, but if the lock face is recessed, or other otherwise surrounded by the metal outer door, there's no way to grind the face off the plug or the cylinder.     
See attached picture fro a better idea of what I'm talking about.     The scanned picture is a cam lock, but it best shows the anti drill pins and side bar.    The lock in you picture is most likely either a mortise lock, or what called a rim cylinder type of lock.

If Pete's lock "is not" a Medeco, then drilling in the yellow circle shown by "DSK" in his picture, is the best bet.    As a side note, drilling any type of lock is best accomplished using  "GOOD" quality Cobalt drill bits.

Jeff Lamb

That being said, I have successfully drilled Medeco locks including those on my wall Millennium. Don't even dream of trying unless you have tons of time, and multiple titanium drill bits of different sizes.

I started out with a very small drill in the "sweet spot", got it in as far as I could, then gradually increased the sizes of drill. It literally took a dozen different bits, as the SS guard bars will break and dull bits to no end. But I persisted in multiple sessions over a spell of two days, and finally got through it.

Then came the job of carefully disassembling the phone and getting all the little metal filings out of the phone and off the circuit boards - a very important step is working on a microprocessor controlled phone.

So, while it isn't impossible, it is a job I wouldn't want to tackle again. However, I got it opened and changed its locks, and hopefully, I will never lose its keys :-)

Dave

[G-Man]

The Medeco locks are far from impregnable!

The easiest method that the pro coin guys employ is the use of a hammer-drill and hardened bits. In some cases the lock's mounting screws may even back-out enough for you to gain entry.

That way you can save your vault door and only have to replace an inexpensive lock.

[DavePEI]

The Medeco locks are far from impregnable!

The easiest method that the pro coin guys employ is the use of a hammer-drill and hardened bits. In some cases the lock's mounting screws may even back-out enough for you to gain entry.

That way you can save your vault door and only have to replace an inexpensive lock.

If that is so, I would love to know their secret. I had heard this too, and I have tried to do the same on many occasions, it used to be my first line of assault, and I have NEVER had it work. The screws never budge. I even went out and bought a hammer drill especially for that purpose. In fact, it was the hammer drill I used on the Millennium Medeco lock, and while I eventually got it open, it took two days of drilling in multiple spells and at least a dozen titanium bits, and believe me, all four screws on the lock were still firmly in place..

You can drill them with great difficulty, but don't hope for the screws to drop out. I even tried an air chisel on one phone using it to set up vibrations - never budged the lock screws. I ended up drilling it after.

Dave

[G-Man]

Dave, I did not mean to imply that it happens all the time, instead, it should be considered as a bonus when it does, so please let me reword that sentence:

In some cases [If lucky], the lock's mounting screws may even back-out enough for you to gain entry.

The coin pros do this much more often than the rest of us so they are apt to come across it occasionally. I suspect it would have to do just how much the original installer torqued the screws to begin with.

When the proper technique is employed it does not take them several days to open an upper-housing or vault door.

[G-Man]

Here is a post from the TCI list archives from an expert payphone collector who has success with the hammer-drill method:

Re: [TCI] Opening Locked Vault Doors Sans Key
Mike Magnus
Nov 9, 2006

I have a single-slot that was removed during remodeling at a school where a relative works. It came complete with lag screws, plaster and other bits of wall. After numerous calls to Ameritech/SBC with no action, the school forcibly removed the phone from the wall and put it in storage. After more than a year of waiting for a response from the phone company they finally relented and gave it to me.

The phone was opened using the hammer drill method to shake the locks loose. In the coin box I found  $1.00 in change.

Stuffed in the coin return I found several teacher's notes to parents that never made it to their intended recipients...

-Mike

I confess that the cutting-wheel option also works quite well when the hammer-drill doesn't achieve the desired results.