...I'm new in town, currently working on restoring a WE 334A subset. Previous owner did a so-so job at painting the cover and might have fooled around a little on the inside, so I have no moral problems with really getting into the innards and doing a total restoration. First question is about wiring schematics: I'm missing the original schematic from subset that would have been pasted to the inside of the subset cover. Most of the other labels that would have been present I can reproduce, but I'm wondering if anyone out there has a good image or scan of the original schematic 334A document, and knows the dimensions? I'd be happy to clean it up in photoshop, make a vector file and post it for future use.
My second question is about the wiring of the induction coil to the block. Is there a schematic of the wiring of a #20 induction coil to the block anywhere out there I can consult, in case I decide to try replacing the wiring (the connection between it and the condenser was very fragile, at some point in the past someone may have fooled around with it). I poked around the boards but didn't find one (at least nothing I recognized as such).
With luck, I may be posting some images in the near future, though this project is one of those only-when -I-have-spare-time projects. Thanks for the help!
jeff
Welcome to the forum, the best place in the world to get old phone information.
Can you take a few photos of your subset and post them to this topic?
This link will help you with posting them. Remember to keep their size down to under 2Mbytes for schematic type files and 500K for photos. If you try to upload a photo bigger than 2 Mbytes, it may lock up the topic in which you are posting the phone - an experience shared by several members, including me.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=84.0
Someone out there with knowledge of the 334 will answer the questions in your post.
And, again, welcome to the forum.
Here's a few pix: an overall before disassembly, a closer-up of condenser and coil, and the induction coil. Upon removing them from the bracket, one of the wires (marked black, but green now that I look at it) broke off at the solder point to the condenser. The ringer had spade terminals, so I was able to remove it without breaking anything. Hopefully I'm posting the right images, and not my vacation pictures.
jeff
The 334A is wired identically to the wooden 295A.
Here is a link on this forum to the 295A diagram. It should work for you.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11379.0
connect:
Ringer red to L1
Ringer black to C
Induction coil 1 to L1
Induction coil 2 to R
Induction coil 3 to C
Induction coil 4 to GN
L2 to Y
one side of the condenser to L2
Other side of the condenser to C
Phone line connects one side to L1 and the other to L2
Sidetone phone connects:
Red wire to R
Green wire to GN
Yellow wire to L2/Y
Thanks, I saw that thread earlier, good to have the confirmation that that schematic will work. Looks like I'm wanting to use the earlier version if I'm not mistaken. Any special order to wire color? I see what looks like white, black and green (looking at the photos, I don't have the coil in front of me), but don't know what time might have done to the wire colors, and whether they were standardized or not.
Induction coil wires I think tended not to be color coded. Usually black I think. I might be able to find my 334 A.
Here is the diagram from the inside front cover of my 334A. I took it with my iphone. Hopefully it is in good enough detail.
A couple more
Thanks folks, this is all great. I'll have to check my photos, but it looks like there is some sort of consistency in the colors of the wires between the block and the coil, just don't know if it was ever formalized into a code. The photos of the schematic look great! I had a photo of it I found on an ebay auction, but it was a little fuzzy and I couldn't sharpen it. I'll see what I can do with it . I'll probably have more questions (and more photos) in the next few days, but what you've given me so far is very useful.
jeff
Yeah, it is hard to get a good picture inside the cover, and get decent light. It is not the best sharpness to begin with. It looks like some of the wires are green and some black. They are also bound in a harness, which makes it harder to visually trace without an ohm meter.
Here's what I think the diagram shows:
Induction
Coil|: Wire Color: to Terminal:
1----------Black------------L1
2----------Red--------------R
3----------Black------------C
4---------Green------------GN
Condenser:
Red--------------C
Green------------L2
I agree
The No. 20 induction coil was the forerunner of the No.46 induction coil for common battery talking applications. They are interchangeable where space permits.
The primary winding (transmitter circuit) is on terminals 1 and 2, and the secondary (receiver) is on terminals 3 and 4.
Similarly, the 120 is the anti-sidetone version, just like the 146.
The diagram does look like it reflects the colors of the wiring on my coil, though those colors are faded: my black looks more like a grey, and the red looks more like a white. Here are some pdf files: the schematic, and the list of patent dates (taken from an image on ebay). Dimensions are probably off, and not sure if that list of dates would be the same in the 334A, as it came from the wood version.
I usually take the condenser and coil out in one piece, as you've learned those old wires can be brittle. I spray them with contact cleaner and use an old toothbrush to scrub away the grime
Still not sure what I'll do with the coil, but I did completely take apart the bell. It will look pretty brand-spanking new once I'm done and it's back together, might even be way cleaner than any bell that would have originally been used. I just had to do it... curiosity might have killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back. Pictures to follow. Did finally prime and repaint the condenser. I had painted it a glossy black, but didn't look right to me. Stripped it again, re-primed and re-painted it a flat black. Looks much better. Pictures included. Hopefully, it will work. Started painting the case cover and mounting bracket with 1-shot enamel, and boy, is that stuff glossy. I'll need a better quality brush for the final coat once I get there.
I got a little carried away, but so far I'm liking the results. Curiosity about how things work and how they were assembled. I need to clean up the soldering, but otherwise it looks good and I have continuity across all connections. Nobody is ever going to see the results, as they will be inside the case, but I'll know. I like a challenge. Of course, i'll only know if the results are as good as they look once i put everything back together and wire it up to my 102, then plug it in and take a call.
Does it matter if the line-in green goes on L1 and red on L2Y or can you swap them?
What does everyone else do with the yellow and black conductors?
there is no practical difference anymore w/r/t to the polarity of your line cord, since we are all using bridged ringing these days. Back then, the ringing was provided via a grounded circuit over either the ring or tip side of the loop.
You can store the yellow and black by isolating them from each other and tucking them aways somewhere. Isolating them makes sure that they don't short any second line being installed in the house wiring.
That is now about the prettiest 21D I have seen.
It's true that it will work either way. However, originally for bridged ringers (non-party lines), the ring side of the line (red) connected to L1 and the tip side (green) connected to Y-L2 in Western Electric apparatus. Also, for bridged ringers, the red ringer wire connected to L1 and the black ringer wire to K.
(Note: For some unknown reason, WE swapped the L1 and L2 designations for the 500 and later sets.)
A ground connection was not necessary for bridged ringers on individual lines. Connecting the ringer circuit to tip and ground, or ring and ground, was necessary only for divided ringing on party lines.
There were some independent companies that used grounded ringers even on individual lines. That way, if the ground connection was disconnected at the protector, the subscriber would call in a trouble because the phones would no longer ring. However, this was not the way individual line ringers were usually wired.
You might consider connecting the yellow line cord conductor to the GND terminal inside the subset, even though it won't serve any purpose. Originally, GND was the ground connection. Still, tape up the black lead.
I wired this as it was originally wired when it came to me, reproducing what was there very carefully. I bought inventory tags when I realized I was going to replace the wiring, just so I could mark every wire. Then I mapped everything out on paper, assembled the replacement wiring (yes, using green waxed cord like the original), and then marked all those with inventory tags as well so that there was no guessing when I installed the new wire. For several days I had two bundles of wiring with something like 20 inventory tags each dangling from them... I lived in mortal fear that if I did not mark everything, something would be spilled, and I'd end up with a very frustrating collection of unknown wires on the floor. I wasn't shooting for that just-manufactured look, there were plenty of gouges and dings in the wood still visible that I left, but it came out looking so nice I just had to show it off. Jeez I hope it all works.
The case will be painted this weekend (my enamelling keeps leaving steaks, but I'm almost there), and sometime soon I should be getting back the bell gongs and hinges re-nickeled. I noticed a lot of surface rust on the steel screws, so most may get replaced with new screws. Also a lot of rust at the ends of the induction coil's iron core where it was visible in the induction coil end blocks... I was tempted to grind them down to get rid of the rust, but I let them be. Might tread the with Ospho, though I fear soaking the wood blocks and having them split. This subset must have lived in a damp environment with all the rust I found.
A follow-up question: I'm going to be reproducing the wiring schematic sheet for the inside of the subset cover, and the list of patents dates. How were these pasted into the covers? Pasted all the way in, pasted at the corners, or did it vary?
Subset schematics are usually mounted in the center, wall phone schematics mounted off-set to make room for the transmitter.
For the rusty coil there is a product called Workshop Hero Metal Rescue available through Home Depot. Mine does not carry it but I do a free ship-to-store and it arrives in a week or so. You need to heat it but is removes surface rust from a lot of (but not all) surfaces without removing paint or damaging wires etc. You can dip one end at a time. It is great for rusty screws, but so is cider vinegar.
Thanks for the information, been away a while. Might be assembling the subset this weekend. Hope to print out all my paperwork and glue it in. The only documentation in there was the paper identifying it as a 334A. That was on the wall-facing side of the bracket the condenser and induction coil are mounted to. I seem to remember a 334A tag elsewhere in a photo, but can't find that photo. I'm printing out extras in case I find it. Now I just have to hope I have the correct cords to wire up my 102... it's been a while since I had the phone wired to anything.
Stuck everything in a box, traveled to a family gathering, and took some time before dinner to put everything together. forgot the hinges, so the lid is not attached to the base yet, but all the major components are done. Next i need to wire it to the telephone (which still needs some work) and then test it on a land line.
Repeated one picture in the last post... here are the last few.