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The 500 model number. Why?

Started by bingster, June 16, 2009, 03:43:12 PM

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bingster

I got to thinking last night about how odd it seems that the 500 is called the 500.  What I mean is, the preceding standard configurations were the 102, then the 202, then the 302.  Wouldn't it make sense for the next phone to be the 502?  Anybody know what was behind the numbering decision for the 500?
= DARRIN =



Dan/Panther

What's even weirder, what happened to 402 ? Maybe 402 was a skipped because they felt (the 500)  was such an advancement in technology, that it was a step ahead.
However, they did make a 502A, and a 502B.

Is weird an exception to the I before E rule ? Or are we pronouncing the word wrong, and it's really wayerd ?

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

bingster

The 400 series was the key version of the 300 series phones.  I've always wondered why they didn't use 300 series numbers for them.  Maybe there just weren't enough numbers between 300 and 399?

The Princess is another that breaks the mold.  There were 702s, but there was also a 701. 
= DARRIN =



Sargeguy

If I recall correctly, 102 and 202 were names that collectors assigned those phones based upon the "302"'s name: "If this one is a 302, than the one before it is a 202 and the one before that is a 102".  They have no real model numbers, B1 and D1 referring to the wiring.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Dennis Markham

Sarge, I don't know who named them or if 102 and 202 are legitimate model numbers, but the designation B1 and D1 are shape designation.  The 102 and 202 designation relates to the wiring.  A  B1 (round body) wired with a 4 conductor desk stand cord for anti side-tone is considered to be a 202 despite its shape.  If a D1 is wired with a 3 conductor desk stand cord (the cord from the phone to the subset) it is considered to be a 102 despite its oval shape.  So to call every round based B1 a 102 would be incorrect.  It depends on how it's wired.  That's my understanding.

bingster

Exactly.  102 is Bell System lingo for sidetone wiring, 202 means anti-sidetone wiring.  It makes no difference that the wiring might be in a B or D mount. 

Sargeguy, you might be thinking of the "A1" designation.  That seems to have been applied to the original WE desk telephone by collectors by working their way backward past the B mount.
= DARRIN =



benhutcherson

BSP wiring diagrams use the designations 102 and 202, so they're not just things that collectors made up.

I too think it's interesting that Bell dispensed with the "2" at the end of the 500, but later reinstated it for the Princess series.

Sargeguy

QuoteSargeguy, you might be thinking of the "A1" designation.  That seems to have been applied to the original WE desk telephone by collectors by working their way backward past the B mount.

Yeah, I think that's what happened.  

My next theory: "Western Electric 500" sounds much cooler than "Western Electric 502" and they were promoting it pretty heavily at the time.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

rp2813

Re: the word weird, that's how I'd describe this whole thread, since I was thinking the exact same thing just yesterday.  And don't even ask me why.  I wasn't anywhere near a phone when the thought occurred to me.  Clearly, I need professional help.

I also arrived at some of the same conclusions that have shown up here.  I agree that "500" sounded revolutionary, and this model certainly was that.

My dad grew up in Berwyn, IL, the next town over from WECo in Cicero.  He and some of his family members worked there.  He always referred to oval base phone sets as 202's.  I think it was an official model number but can't cite any particular document or quote to back that up.

Ralph
Ralph

Phonesrfun

Now if you had been looking at another phone forum, you'd be amazed at the amount of energy that has been used in designating the difference between the round base, the oval base, and the 102 versus 202 numbers.

Now for the e-bay urban ledgend.  On e-bay, it seems that all round base cradle phones are 102's and that all oval base phones are 202's.  Generally this might be true, but it is technically incorrect.

Now for the politically correct version:

The round based phones are a "B" handset mount.  The oval based phones are a "D" handset mount.  And, by the way, the phone that is commonly referred to as a 302 or a "Lucy" phone is an "H" handset mount.

Well, what about the 102,202, and 302 stuff??

OK, here goes:

The 102 is a sidetone phone that basically used the same circuit as a sidetone candlestick, but it is made for the handset style phone.  Technically, this arrangement was used on both the round B1 mount and the oval D1 mount.  The 202 is the antisidetone version of the same thing, and required a different coil, more contacts in the hookswitch and dial, and one more conductor in the line cord.  Supposedly this arrangement was used in both the B1 and D1 mounts also.  So, the difference between the 102 and 202 designation is the actual circuit used, and not the style of the base.  That having been said, I gather from other information that the massive changeover at the Bell System from sidetone to antisidetone happened about the same time they were making the base oval to keep it from sliding around the table while dialing.

A discussion of the differences between sidetone and antisidetone is another discussion entirely, but the antisidetone was an improvement that made it so the person using the phone did not hear their own voice as much.  This encouraged the user to speak up, and also was a benefit in an environment where there is a noisy background.  Not as much of the background noise comes back into your own ear.

The 302 is a slightly different circuit yet than the 202, which was for a phone that was self contained and did not need a separate subset.  As far as I know, the 302 circuitry was only used in the H mount, and so there is a correlation between the 300 series phones and its associated mount, so the 3XX numbers are used to describe that series of phones far more often than the HX body designation. 

You will notice that if you take the cover off a 302, you will most likely see H1 in vermillion ink along the front edge of the body on the inside of the cover.

-Bill
-Bill G

Dennis Markham

Bill, thank you for taking the time to give us that detailed description in the differences of the models with the proper terminology.  With regard to the inside designation, it seems that I mostly find the H designation on the 302's on the back (inside), near the mounting cord opening.  Do these vary?

Sargeguy

I have found that metal bodied 300-series phones (or 250-466 series phones) don't have the mounting designation printed on them about half the time, especially if they are models/wiring schemes other than a 302.  These phones will often have the model # printed on the bottom of the base.  Some early 302s had the H1 on the outside near the line cord, similar to "B1" and "D1" markings in older models.

Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409