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Snagged my first Mercedes Dial on an AE 21 Candlestick off of eBay

Started by TelePlay, June 27, 2016, 09:37:29 PM

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TelePlay

Quote from: Jack Ryan on June 28, 2016, 10:20:29 PM
What is the shaft/handle made of? It could be steel or an aluminium alloy - maybe brass.

The hook, shaft and base are not brass. Too heavy for aluminum so that leaves steel or what ever they used.

=========

What is really sad upon removing the white paint is to look at what's under it. The cup, shaft and base once has a very tight, unchipped, nearly NOS japaned finish. It was horribly scratch almost down to the base metal with low grit sandpaper. As an example, here is the cup outside and inside. The inside is perfect, the outside speaks for itself. Yes, they needed to do that to get that white paint to stick but a black lamp phone would have looked so much better with the original, black, shiny japaned finish, IMHO, of course.

They even roughed up the mouthpiece but that's an easier fix.

poplar1

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

TelePlay

Quote from: poplar1 on July 02, 2016, 09:27:31 AM
Here are two receivers that I believe are AE:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautiful-Automatic-Electric-Candlestick-Telephone-Receiver-/152145112321

Thanks, poplar1,

With your two examples, AE_Collector started a new board that will be a good repository for receiver information, examples and photos of them. He put both of the above into that new board at

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16448.0


Now I know what the elusive AE receiver looks like. All of these receivers are pricey, some pricier than others. I saw that second on a eBay but thought the element was a newer version. I did find a the first one just now but at a higher price. As they say in theater, the fastest way to solve a problem is to throw money at it. I guess the prices are driven by availability. Only a few AEs versus many WE 144s. Anyway, will go with the first (magnetic) type which I hope is more authentic to an AE 21. Here's a picture of the one I found.

Thanks again for the help.


TelePlay

Quote from: Doug Rose on July 01, 2016, 06:19:19 PM
John....way too long....pictures of your refurb. This will be great!...Doug

Not the final product, just what it looks like today (all paint removed). Nice "texture" on the face plate. It's now clean and at the restoration rebuilding point. 

Borrowed a diaphragm and cap off of a WE 144 for these photos. You can see how badly the japaned finish was ruined to get the white paint to stick. There are no markings anywhere on this phone, except for the dial.

Does the base mounting screw go under the felt with only a hole to access the screw or is it on top of the felt as shown?

Doug Rose

Kidphone

AE_Collector

Yeah the receiver with the AE capsule would be AE as even the contacts inside the receiver are either identical or virtually identical to those in the type 41 handset used on the 40 and 50 sets. These capsules would have been designed and introduced very late 30's for the new AE40 set. So that AE receiver with capsule could have been used on late model AE21's but not your early model AE21.

I added the pictures of the two AE receivers (that poplar1 posted) to the "Telephone Component Identification - Receivers" child board to try to get some more info posted there about AE and all other receivers. Here is the post:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16448.0

Terry

rdelius

The capsule type rec assy and bakelite transmitter were type 42  .Used for upgrades and later sets.watch out for repro type 42 shells.Do not have the internal threads to hold the brass spider and the rec cap curves inward around the holes. Origional ones the holes are in an embossed circle and will have the AE logo inside

TelePlay

Plugged the perch lamp hole tonight. Only took about two hours but would really have been an hour and a half if I hadn't tried a tangential experiment to see how quickly a high speed dremel bit will cut skin.  ???

Anyway, turned out quite well. Not good enough to leave it brass but since the perch was black japan to begin with, will look just fine after painting. Used a technique I discovered look ago from a gun smith on filling unwanted barrel and receiver holes. I'm sure most of you have done this in the past as needed.

After I took the paint off of the perch, I cleaned out the thread area and cut several notches in threads 2 or 3 turns down the hole as anchor points. Took a 3/8" fully threaded brass rod and cut a flat head slot in the end going into the perch, just in cash I wanted to remove the plug. Screwed the rod into the perch until it was tight, and not past the perch cord hold. Cut the rod off and ground it down to about 1/16" from the perch surface. Used a ball peen hammer to drive the rod into the hole to expand the rod tight into the hole, catch the anchor points and fill some of the surface area. Used a file to shape it to the perch contours. Finished it off with various grades of sandpaper and a buffing wheel. Due to the tapping of the hole, some of the threads at the surface still show but those can be filled prior to painting to get a smooth surface.

A quick and cheap ($1.89 for the 1' rod and I only used an inch) and will do just fine with filler in the thread surface depressions and several coats of paint.

Another step in the process completed.

WEBellSystemChristian

Nice work, John! Before painting, you could smear some Bondo around the edges of the filled hole, and sand it down smooth with some 400 grit after curing.

Great work so far!
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

unbeldi

Perhaps you can fill the rest of the 'notches' from the threads with solder.   According to the original introduction articles, the neck is made from aluminum bronze, not brass, but I think Al-bronze can also be soldered.
Although the pictures appear to show a metallic sheen on the neck, the article describes it as being finished with black enamel.


Ref: Automatic Electric, ''Type 21'': The Lastest and Best in Telephone Instruments, Automatic Telephone, Sept.–Oct. 1922 page 100. (attached)

TelePlay

Quote from: unbeldi on July 03, 2016, 09:54:55 AM
Perhaps you can fill the rest of the 'notches' from the threads with solder.   According to the original introduction articles, the neck is made from aluminum bronze, not brass, but I think Al-bronze can also be soldered.

unbeldi, good idea.

Tried it and successfully filled the largest 2 of the 10 or so thread gaps. The other gaps or pits were just too small to get the solder into them in that the perch is a huge heat sink and while the iron could stick solder on top of those small pits, the point of the iron was so large that it took up the gap and moving it a bit to try to get solder to flow into the small gaps resulted in the solder beading on the surface because the adjacent soldering iron tip was not hot enough the warm up the perch. What I did get in is shown in the left and center images below.

So, on to trial 2, something else. I've had very good success using water thin cyanoacrylic (superglue) on quite a few other things so with magnification, placed a small amount in each surface pit. Let it dry for a few hours and sanded smooth. Only needed a second coat some of the larger ones to get to a smooth sanded surface (right picture below). While they show visibly, running a sharp needle over them proved to me the puts were filled, were smooth the adjacent surface. Actually, the plugged area is smoother than the rest of the perch that still shows some the the japan varnish originally applied. Will have to rough up the plug area before painting to get it to match and the paint to stick.

Does anyone have a photo or catalog image of the transmitter that fits into this cup and faceplate?

Jack Ryan

Quote from: unbeldi on July 03, 2016, 09:54:55 AM
Ref: Automatic Electric, ''Type 21'': The Lastest and Best in Telephone Instruments, Automatic Telephone, Sept.–Oct. 1922 page 100. (attached)

Notice that that article shows the original and apparently short lived "tall perch" version of the AE 21.

Jack

AE_Collector

Hadn't noticed that...and hadn't realized that there was a tall perch version. Interesting.

Terry

WEBellSystemChristian

I like the tall perch version more; it looks more stately than the 'hunched-over' look of the later one.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Jack Ryan

Quote from: AE_Collector on July 03, 2016, 09:27:38 PM
Hadn't noticed that...and hadn't realized that there was a tall perch version. Interesting.

Terry

Here is a comparison.

Jack