no dialtone on 702B princess

[princessphone]

Hi there,
Thanks to everyone who helped me with my "powering multiple princesses" project. The problem was solved using an Edwards' 598 transformer and running a 8V line (home-run style) to each phone, and voila, no more dimming of the lights.
Can someone help me with another stubborn princess?
Have a 702B Princess with a 4010B network. The lights work OK (separate circuit). She rings and takes calls but there's no dial tone and therefore can not dial out.
I've read somewhere in the forum that some phones were modified for no out-calls (secretary phone?). It seems odd that someone would do this to a "bedroom" phone.
The inside appears not to have been messed with and the hookups on the network appear to look proper.
Perhaps she wasn't modified and something is broken or shorted is out.
Any ideas to get her dial tone back?
Thanks, John DeJonge
PS  I now have about 6 or so "real" ringing phones in the house and I think that I'm reaching the limit of power that Ma Bell is supplying (the ringing is starting to diminish with more phones added. What can I do?       

[WesternElectricBen]

Okay, just thinking out loud, if all the wiring is correct, I'd check the dial governor. * cam *

Make sure it is set properly, maybe somebody has a picture of the correct setting. (?)

Ben

[princessphone]

Thanks Ben, What is a dial governor and where is it located? John

[twocvbloke]

6 phones is pretty much above the limit of the average phoneline, most can support up to 4, though that's more to do with supplied ringing current than the use of the phone itself...

I'd check the wiring out to make sure the phone is wired up correctly, if you can talk on the phone and hear the other party, then that is indeed an odd fault, but if it rings and answers when you pick it up, but you can't hear the person on the other end, then it would suggest that something is up with either the hookswitch or the dial's contacts, or the wiring to either...

The dial governor only regulates the speed of the dial, it has nothing to do with providing a dial tone, only in breaking the dial tone when a number is dialled and is running at the right 10 pulses per second speed...

[WesternElectricBen]

Well, twocvbloke, you could be right that the wiring is bad, although he says it is right, so we will believe them. Besides, I've had this issue before, where it didn't return properly, creating a hum noise.

Correction, I wasn't talking about the governor, rather the cam.

The cam is pointed out, maybe someone can better explain how to reset it, I'm late as it is. I borrowed the pick from D/P so he wrote it in, but he did point it out correctly, just disregard the writing.

Ben

[jsowers]

Look at the attached picture. I hope your dial is like this one from a 701. Where the two white wires go is a shunt and if the shunt is closed--meaning the contacts are touching--then it silences the sound in the earpiece. There's a cam in the dial that closes this shunt when dialing, and then when the dial returns, it opens. Check to make sure it's operating: closing when dialing and open when the dial comes back to rest.

You can swap out the dial from another Princess and see if that fixes the problem too. These dials aren't easy to fix and are best if just swapped out with a good one. I don't think even Steve Hilsz works on them.

I assume your receiver element is OK, meaning you can hear the other party when you answer. If not, then swap out the element in the receiver.

Six phones ringing is about the limit. The REN (ringer equivalence) is usually 1 on Bell System phones, so a REN of 6 is the limit, or was in the old days. If your have electronic ringers, then it could be different. Five or six is about all it will take, so plan accordingly. One solution would be to get a WE Bell Chime and place it centrally and serve a large area and have a very pleasant ring too.

[princessphone]

Thank you all. As you correctly diagnosed the shunt is not opening. The plastic cam or post is not reaching or broke off. The pictures are great and very usefull. My dial unit has a clear plastic cover over the shunt but I was able to reach in with small screwdriver and break (I mean open the contact) and received a nice dialtone. As suggested I'll replace the unit.
Also many thanks to inform me that the number of ringing phones one can have is limited.
Have a great night and best regards, John DeJonge

[Scotophor]

Princessphone, I thought I read somewhere that those Princesses that have bell ringers, have a REN of 0.8. If this is correct, you should be able to use at least 6 of them on one telco copper POTS line without problems -- or even 5 Princesses and one 500 (REN 1.0). When you get to older ringers like in 302 phones and earlier, their RENs start to exceed 1.0, so that's when you might start having problems. You won't actually hurt anything by having too many ringers on the line, but you may reach a point by adding a phone where suddenly none of them ring. If you want to have many phones and all of them ring, look into getting a ring booster or a PBX.

[poplar1]

As a temporary fix, you can just leave one of the white dial wires disconnected. However, you will then hear the dial pulses.