Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Switching => Intercom & Interphone Systems => Topic started by: gpo706 on August 11, 2009, 08:47:55 PM

Title: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 11, 2009, 08:47:55 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350215099172&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300336387975&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250474102772&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

The Dictograph comes with a black 706 thrown in "cheap as chips", fills in a colour gap.

The chrome wallmount cost more than the darn phones, pretty rare though it means I can convert one of my 706 junkers to a wallphone.

(I bought a job lot of 10 junk 706's without dials from Telephonelines last year, managed to get 3 Ivory's and 1 grey up from the remains).

The discreet dial is fab, I'm going to screw it to the underside of my desk wired to a blanked off dial set, my mates kids are gonna love it...

Luckily I don't have a wife at the moment, or probably for the forseeable future...
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: bingster on August 11, 2009, 09:40:51 PM
I think those are all great finds.  The dial mount is very cool, and small, rare accessories like the chrome wall adapter make a collection fun.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 11, 2009, 10:07:13 PM
Thanks for your moral support Bingster, though I doubt many close to me would understand why I spent £14 on a bracket!

Need more shelving...
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Phonesrfun on August 11, 2009, 11:30:52 PM
Quote from: gpo706 on August 11, 2009, 10:07:13 PM

Need more shelving...

You and me both!

Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: McHeath on August 11, 2009, 11:32:15 PM
Oh I get it, spending enough money for a nice dinner out on a funny shaped piece of chrome bracketing.  That is super cool that you can take a 706 and turn it into a wall phone, didn't know that was possible.  
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: foots on August 12, 2009, 03:33:03 AM
gpo706, that dictograph is one cool machine, I can't beleive you got it for so little, especially with a phone thrown in as lagniappe. Please post some pictures of it when you get it.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 12, 2009, 04:12:04 PM
Here's one someone made earlier...

http://telephonesuk.co.uk/images/706_wall_red.jpg

Imagine it with a dial, you simply invert it, although I've notice different cases dont have all the knotches to seat the dial upside down.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 12, 2009, 05:12:49 PM
I think that inverted wall-mount modified 706 was a 1/706, wasn't it?  They were never very common; the purpose-designed wall 'phones with the handset rest at the top, 711 and 741 I think from memory, were much more common.

Other makers had a similar idea of reversing the dial to make a wall 'phone.  Look at the Stromberg-Carlson 1543 'Crab Claw' and Leich 105 'Converta Phone' here:

http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic2.htm (http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic2.htm)

I think these pre-date the GPO version, but I don't know who first had the idea, or when.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 12, 2009, 08:38:14 PM
That "crab claw" is the same principle, the Leich version has a dual purpose hanger, very, very clever.

I still think the US companies were much copied by us Brits, especially when it came to the 706/746 designs and the modular wiring.

BTW whats the designation for a chrome clawed 746, I only ever seen 706 screw-in versions?
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 13, 2009, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: gpo706 on August 12, 2009, 08:38:14 PM
BTW whats the designation for a chrome clawed 746, I only ever seen 706 screw-in versions?

Was there ever such a thing?  I've never seen one.  The adapted 706 seemed to be largely replaced by the purpose-built 711 in later years, so maybe the 746 was never adapted, and a 741 was always used when a wall model was required, but I don't know for certain.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 13, 2009, 04:58:53 PM
Stephen,

it was probably a 756 I was thinking of, of course these would need totally different fixings?

http://telephonesuk.co.uk/images/756_cream_wall.jpg

http://telephonesuk.co.uk/images/756_info_card.jpg
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 14, 2009, 05:10:48 PM
That's a new one on me; I've never seen one of those before.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 14, 2009, 07:58:13 PM
Hi again Stephen,

Had the cradle sitting about for a few days so last night decided to mount a grey 706 junker I had cosmetically restored to a CB set with a blanking dial, and after much effort, managed to get the chrome lugs off, repalce it with the bracket and find a decent bit of my (rotten) walls to take the screws in and hold the weight without it dropping off on my head in the middle of the night, (it's right over my bed).

So far so good.

So tonight I'm bored, I have 3 706 creams in various shades which I have resurrected and work fine but who wants 3 desksets in the same colour?

And why not have a working machine on the wall?

So takes the grey CB off, removes the fiddly bracket off it and removes the equally fiddly chrome fixing mounts from one of the Ivory (more like cream weathered) ones, I decided because it has a very tight handcoil and slips in desk use as it has only been hand cleaned not soaked to free it up a bit.

Loosen the dial on the cream one, and rotate 180, make sure its level then tighten.

Fine, so far so good.

Then affix the lovely chrome bracket on the cream body, a bit of a wrangle with the fixing lugs bit of brute force and a pair of pliers and its in.

So now just to remount the cream chassis onto the holes I had in the wall before.

Merde!

The grey one was a a metal chassis 706 with holes in it, the cream one is plastic chassis and no predrilled holes only marked recessions in the moulding.

So now to dig out the hand-drill and a suitable sized bit to make the holes, after much vexed searching, I had the drill, but there isn't one damned wood bit to be found in the tool drawer.

Sod it, heres a set of masonry bits, surely they will work on plastics, and glad to say they did fine.

The last hurdle was lining up the 3 holes with the screws (2 top, 1 bottom), to align it perfectly horizontally on the wall, luckily I knew exactly where my spirit level was to hand.

Then you replace the case, with some flexing and muscle power, again the hookset fit through the holes till you experiment with the screws holding the bracket, adust one too tight the other isn't interested, bit of expermentation and screw them in TIGHT.

So now its on the wall, try a dial test, - nothing but crackle, try again and it works, magnifique!

Now the dial centre is upside down?

I have no idea how it managed to rotate 180, unless I did it earlier and forgot, so out with the sucker cup and set to it.

One last thought, once you start with a seemingly simple swap like this you end up spending half your waking hours a lot of knuckle skin and end up perspiring like a miner off a 12 hour shift.

Then you sit back, relax with a large nip and a cigar, admiring your exertions, and say "ahhhhhh, the cords are the wrong way round..."

Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: McHeath on August 14, 2009, 08:49:54 PM
QuoteThen you sit back, relax with a large nip and a cigar, admiring your exertions, and say "ahhhhhh, the cords are the wrong way round..."

Hilarious!  I know just the feeling on a 706.  I spent a lot of time on mine, set it up on the missus desk all ready to impress her after scrubbing and cleaning and doing the mods to make it work well in our modern age.  She picks it up and Shazam, it hits me, the cords need to be moved around.

Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 18, 2009, 05:46:22 PM
The dictograph and black 706 arrived today, well packed though still didnt stop the dictograph mouthpiece losing one of the grille bars broke in two, at least the bits are still there so should glue back ok.

The 706 has an original line cord, buts it's green! fair bit of rust oxidation near the body plugs should clean up, the dial is jammed doesn't want move more than a centimetre, no worries got spares, or can try and clean the innards.

One thing I didnt notice from the pics was the 706 has its original dial lable "Cardiff 868681 Extn' 217. obviously from a big company/office, also has a redial button fitted, well I think its a redial its just says "PRESS".

The "touche"/"bum" stamp is GPO706L FWR 66/2, so a refurb from '66 GPO Factory, Cwmcarn, Wales (Refurbished), metal base.

It has superficial scrape and the usual white paint flecks on it (why is always WHITE paint eh?, didnt they have any other colours back in the day?).

Will polish up fine, funnily enough same post came a "watch reciever" (also black should pair up ok). It's a single earcup with a curly cord you just double on the handset line for surveillance or two folk on the end of your line at once.

Should make an unusual set, If I'm not too keen I might get some pics along the way.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 18, 2009, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: gpo706 on August 18, 2009, 05:46:22 PM
The dictograph and black 706 arrived today, well packed though still didnt stop the dictograph mouthpiece losing one of the grille bars broke in two, at least the bits are still there so should glue back ok.

Oh dear, what with that, and my Kellogg, we're not doing too well with the post at the moment. :(

QuoteOne thing I didnt notice from the pics was the 706 has its original dial lable "Cardiff 868681 Extn' 217. obviously from a big company/office, also has a redial button fitted, well I think its a redial its just says "PRESS".

Only one type of switch, at least push-button ones, there were several different additional hook switches which could be fitted, was supplied for the 706.  This could be used with two different buttons to give locking or momentary action.  The switches were either blank, or marked 'Press' for the momentary one, or 'On' at one end ans 'Off' at  the other, for the locking version which was normally used for bell on/off on extension telephones.  originally, bells were wired in series, and turned off by closing a switch is parallel with them to short them out.  When converted for BT style plug and socket use the bells are all wired in parallel, and a bell is turned off by opening a switch in series with it.

The non locking switch was normally used for earth recall with older PABX systems, and worked by closing a switch between the 'B' and 'Earth' wires.  It was also used for 'Shared service' telephones, but that died out many years ago now.

The switch situation became more complicated with the 746, where one or two switches could be fitted, and different switches were used for each type.  The Momentary one also needs a plunger and spring, while the locking type has these built in.  Buttons can be either full width, for one switch, or half width, for two.  Other than the wording on them they are all the same.

The 710, 711, 740 and 741 can take up to four buttons, though different models take different types.  Some of these models had a latch plate built in, and others could have one added if required.  It all gets far too complicated for me to remember the details.  I'm trying to find a pair of half-width buttons so I can put two switches in a 746.

Quotefunnily enough same post came a "watch reciever" (also black should pair up ok). It's a single earcup with a curly cord you just double on the handset line for surveillance or two folk on the end of your line at once.

Should make an unusual set, If I'm not too keen I might get some pics along the way.

The 706, and I think the 746, had a hole for the watch receiver cord, but very few ever had one fitted.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 18, 2009, 07:39:59 PM
Thanks Stephen,

Sorry about your Kellog, thats hundred times worse than a single mouthset spar coming off though.

Just took it apart for a quick look, it has greening mildewy marks on it inside and round the dial and letter plate, though hardly noticable, so must have been in the garden shed for while.

That will explain why the dial doesn't want to play.

There was a strip of loose brown wire jiggling about in it, not stripped either end so probably just a remnant from the refurb.

Here's the specs from components, (you're gonna hate me for this!)

Dial: 21 H61/1

Capacitor (?) big round aluminium thing?

Side: 77/9 S60/2A
Top: GPO BS 60/7

Clapper: 59A / something (mildewed)

Bodyshell: 2/DCO/609

Receiver: 4T T.E. 62/1
Microphone: 405 - OE 16W 65/2

Now does this mean its a 1959 clapper, 1961 dial, 1962 receiver and 1965 mic?

A real Frankenphone if it does, but the refurb sticker is 1966 so could be, but I'm probably mixing part numbers with assumed dates.

And as I was about to ask you, the watch reciever I hooked up to my red 706 and it works a treat, I was just gonna ask where the hell the cord should come out, is it the base, because it wont fit between the twin grommets at the back.

You just double it up on the handset cord terminal green and red, probably the most simple bit of kit I have connected!

This is a brilliant extra for any GPO 700 Stephen, it has a small metal enclosed hook at the top which when hung up cuts off the earpiece, when you pick it the hook activates the discreet earpiece, absolutely fabulous!

I tried opening it to see the reciever but it doesn't want to budge, and as it works fine, will leave well alone till the rec maybe fails.

Doubt they made them in any range of colurs though, maybe black, brown or ivory, never seen any except black.

Anyway haven't tinkered with it yet, and will try and do a stage-by-stage pics for anyone interested.

The Dictographs are sitting forlornly staring at me waiting to work out a wiring diagram for them, or a power supply...

Regards,

Scot
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 19, 2009, 05:54:47 AM
Quote from: gpo706 on August 18, 2009, 07:39:59 PM

And as I was about to ask you, the watch reciever I hooked up to my red 706 and it works a treat, I was just gonna ask where the hell the cord should come out, is it the base, because it wont fit between the twin grommets at the back.

Is your 706 a Mk.1 (plastic base and conventional wiring) or Mk.2 (metal base and printed circuit board)?
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 03:46:10 PM
It's a MKII, metal PCB
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 03:49:44 PM
The watch receiver is temporarily on my 312L no probs getting the line out the back in this case.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 19, 2009, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 03:46:10 PM
It's a MKII, metal PCB

You should find a small hole in the metal base at the back, near the back right foot, but having said that One of the 706s that I've got handy hasn't got it; the other has, and a 746 has.  I think from memory that on the Mk.1 there was no hole, but there was a small knock-out.

You said something about a brown wire; is it about 20 cm long, with a standard spade on one end, and a miniature one on the other?
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 04:51:18 PM
Oh yeah, got it was covered with push out rubber grommet, reveals a rounded rectangular hole, room for more than one line, maybe 3?

You just push it out with a screwdriver between the red/green rec spade lugs at through the slat on the PCB, then it would just feed through, handily placed, would you put a restraint on the watch rec line or would the weight of the body and strength of the lugs pin it nicely secure?

No, this is just a stray bit of debris brown cable, 5cm un-stripped or lugged must have been rattling about in it since it left Cymbran in 1966!

BTW with a dire lack of 4 spaded double end cords here the green one on this 706 will be cleaned and will come in handy for the discreet dialler mechanism!
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 19, 2009, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 04:51:18 PM
Oh yeah, got it was covered with push out rubber grommet, reveals a rounded rectangular hole, room for more than one line, maybe 3?

That's not what I've seen, it's usually just a small round hole, about 5mm.  Maybe there were different versions.

QuoteYou just push it out with a screwdriver between the red/green rec spade lugs at through the slat on the PCB, then it would just feed through, handily placed, would you put a restraint on the watch rec line or would the weight of the body and strength of the lugs pin it nicely secure?

I don't know, sorry.

QuoteNo, this is just a stray bit of debris brown cable, 5cm un-stripped or lugged must have been rattling about in it since it left Cymbran in 1966!

BTW with a dire lack of 4 spaded double end cords here the green one on this 706 will be cleaned and will come in handy for the discreet dialler mechanism!

At some piint in the life of the 706 a change was made to the wiring.  Existing ones were modified  by adding a brown wire between a standard terminal on the main board, and a small one on the dial.  It was known as a cord instrument something or other, I can't remember the number.  Sounds much more impressive than 'bit of brown wire'!  I thought it might be one of these.

Add 100 to the model number, 706+100=806.  Go here:

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/index.htm (http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/index.htm)

Download N806; it will tell you everything you need to know about wiring up a 706 in various configurations.

The add 100 thing works for just about any GPO telephone.  For bellsets you add 500, so for bellset 26 look at N526.

Up in the 4000 range are ones that cover things like additional switches and buttons which can be added, special wiring for extension plans etc.  Very useful.  They also have the circuit diagram which, at least in the older equipment, should be pasted inside, but which is often missing.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 06:32:40 PM
Mines has the circuit diagram in situ inside the case, first one I found on any plastic phone I have!

Now i have done a basic rewire, no cosmetics as I'll try and get some pics for the forum before and after.

I left the grey brown and blue wires to the "press" switch attached, and get this it only only connects to a  dialling tone when you depress the button and keep it down, not changed the dial yet, but the tone is good and clear, must be like a party line button but my old 746 we had you pressed it once and got dial tone without applying constant pressure, was gonna wire this converntionall and keep the button as a dummy, but this has now intrigued me, a phone no-one can use unless they figure outt to keep the button down to dial.

It's a press in and pops out button, not the "On/Off" type I have another 706 for the bells.

Grey to T9, brown to T9, blue to T12.

This is getting interesting, should I get a constant dial tone once the button is pressed once?

If so the wiring is all fooked up and I'm gonna have to strip it and look at a diagram... ARRRGGHHHH
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: Stephen Furley on August 19, 2009, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 06:32:40 PM
Mines has the circuit diagram in situ inside the case, first one I found on any plastic phone I have!

Now i have done a basic rewire, no cosmetics as I'll try and get some pics for the forum before and after.

I left the grey brown and blue wires to the "press" switch attached, and get this it only only connects to a  dialling tone when you depress the button and keep it down, not changed the dial yet, but the tone is good and clear, must be like a party line button but my old 746 we had you pressed it once and got dial tone without applying constant pressure, was gonna wire this converntionall and keep the button as a dummy, but this has now intrigued me, a phone no-one can use unless they figure outt to keep the button down to dial.

It's a press in and pops out button, not the "On/Off" type I have another 706 for the bells.

Grey to T9, brown to T9, blue to T12.

This is getting interesting, should I get a constant dial tone once the button is pressed once?

If so the wiring is all fooked up and I'm gonna have to strip it and look at a diagram... ARRRGGHHHH

You shouldn't have to press it at all, unless you're on shared service (party line), which no exchanges have supported for years, probably about twenty years since they went digital, or you have something called a 'ground start' line, which is most unlikely.  Pressing the button should have no effect on a normal direct exchange line, if the 'phone has been wired correctly.

I'd expect two of the wires to go to the same terminal, as only the n/o contacts are required.  Leave the switch disconnected, the 'phone should work fine without it, and you can put it back in circuit later, once you know he 'phone is working properly; it won't do anything unless you connect it to a PABX which supports earth recall however.  T9 and T12 sounds a bit odd, but I'd have to look it up.  If the switch is there, then I think it should be wired up correctly, but get the 'phone working without it first.

Do you want this wired up as it originally was, or to work with a modern BT socket system, where the bell capacitor is in the master socket?
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on August 19, 2009, 07:28:35 PM
Hiya, the ring "press" button is still wired in, though I rewired it to conventional convertion, works fine, though need to test the ring on the master socket.

I swapped the dial for another though put the face plate from it back for the body pics, big green patch at the finger stop to give you an idea how I looked when it arrived.

As long as its fine, I dont meddle, could disconnect the switch but doesn't interfere at all.

Now onto ebay and get a black line-in cord, I haven't even dusted or cleaned the chassis, not bad for a phone was last refurbed a year before I was born (1967), me not the phone.

I'm putting the watch receiver on this, and then do a bit of chassis cleaning then the bodywork will clean up real nice, see what you can get for £6!

Might get a chevron backplate / black repro dial for it, will try and leave the original outer letter plate as it looks slightly adhered to the body and might strip the backing plate if I try and take it off to clean.



Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on October 01, 2009, 09:40:40 PM
This one's done, bit of greygates, shines brilliant.

I slapped a chrome fingerplate on it looks lush, like a chrome bumper on an E-type jag - letter surround best left as is.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: McHeath on October 01, 2009, 09:43:54 PM
Got a snap?  Enquiring minds want to see.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on October 01, 2009, 09:48:41 PM
Your always after me for pics McHeath, like to oblige soon...

Lost the darn connector for my bro's digital camera, soon as I dig it out will put a gallery up!
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: gpo706 on October 01, 2009, 10:06:28 PM
PS - the dictograph -

took the old braided handset cord off last night and took 3 hrs to get a 746 curly on it.

The braided set was like something you'd find in a sarcophagus from an Egyptian pyramid, slightest scrape and the outer braid fell into dust.

(Maybe Tutankamum's personal master station if he found Howard Carter busting in with a crowbar?)

No there is no switch on the set for Nephertiti, though I could arrange one.

Needless to say you need a sharp knife to strip the coily grommets off either end, strip cables back, but the stub of the handset end was cut back to about 7mm stuffed through the hole and affix with a cable tie in the TINY cavity under the amazingly complex mouthpiece assembly (4 screws and two sprung connectors to get access to the wires).

Same other end except I tried to keep the GPO grommet on as a tie, result - it wouldn't go because it was hard up against an adjustor lever at the back end where the cable goes in.

So off that came with the Stanley knife and another cable tie to secure it.

Plenty more, but sure you can imagine havine dishes full of loose screws, washers falling on your dark, dark blue carpet, magnets to find em, cases coming apart in 4 bits etc.

Lastly the cord being brand new, too darn tight to get over the cradle without snagging on it, so hung the bugger up on ath wall up 3 feet to adjust its temprement somewhat.

Still no idea if the thing will work, but cords can be done!







Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: McHeath on October 02, 2009, 12:34:25 AM
I tried to remove the handset cord on my 706, thought that it would be simple.  I'm sure it is simple if you know what you are doing, but after quite a while of pondering and tugging I gave up before I hurt something.  It confounded me, as the old folks say.

I hope yours works with the new cords. 
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: HobieSport on October 02, 2009, 01:49:41 AM
gpo706

Thank you. You made me laugh for a long time.
Title: Re: Whoops I did it again... (UK stuff)
Post by: dsk on January 06, 2020, 02:31:32 PM
These from L.M.Ericsson looks related.