Discussion of several options for wall end line cord connectors

[bellsystem]

I received a nice WE 500 in the mail today. I was expecting it to be four prong based on the picture, but I guess the seller didn't include a picture of the end of a cord for a reason.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this phone wired up? I'm thinking either put a four prong plug on it and use a four prong to modular converter to plug it into my PBX, or use a connection block of some sort. Unlike the WE302 I got going two months ago, however, I can't even see any wires inside the cord!! Instead there are strands of what appears to be white fuzzy fiber...

Ideas?

[TelePlay]

     http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-RJ11-6P4C-Telephone-Phone-Line-White-Modular-Surface-Mount-Box/112007938868

[Alex G. Bell]

I received a nice WE 500 in the mail today. I was expecting it to be four prong based on the picture, but I guess the seller didn't include a picture of the end of a cord for a reason.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this phone wired up? I'm thinking either put a four prong plug on it and use a four prong to modular converter to plug it into my PBX, or use a connection block of some sort. Unlike the WE302 I got going two months ago, however, I can't even see any wires inside the cord!! Instead there are strands of what appears to be white fuzzy fiber...

Ideas?

This is a long cord, looks like 25'.  It has a thicker jacket than a normal cord and an internal string to give it tensile strength because it is expected to get draped across a floor where it might get tugged by someone tripping on it.  These long cords also have extra strength strain reliefs for anchoring the jacket of the cord to the telephone set and 42A connecting block or plug.

If you strip the jacket back sufficiently you will find conductors, probably 4 even though only 2 are usually required.  You can get insulation piercing spade tips to terminate the leads, a proper tool to apply them, and if you are lucky maybe someone will have a strain relief salvaged from a cut off cord. 

If not, it's possible to use a couple of small nylon cable ties by putting one around the jacket and using it to bind a second one in line with the length of the cord to secure the end of the cord to the plug.  Best to not cut off the exposed string end but to wrap it over the end of the jacket and bind it under the tie that goes around the jacket so the string takes the force of any tugs on the cord.

Once you have re-terminated the "wall end" of the cord you can attach a plug.

There's no reason to assume that a 4-prong plug will be found on the end of a cord which is not shown.  They were an option used on only a very small part of the population of deployed phones.  Most are connected to 42A Connecting Blocks and often they are disconnected expediently by someone who does not even have a screwdriver, just a knife or pair of scissors.  That's what you have there, probably a knife if the end is rough.

[bellsystem]

Okay, I'll work on stripping the cable but I want to get anything I need to get ordered ordered right away so it'll be here as soon as possible.

I don't need 5, so I think this will work for me, correct?
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-4625A-24W-625A2-Surface-Terminal/dp/B000K2A37S/

I'm coneFsed if the different tools you are talking about are just one way of doing this or multiple ways.
I can't find "insulation piercing spade tips" for sale online.


I think I will go with the surface mount connection block option (the Amazon link above). I would strip the cable enough to get the wires attached inside the block.
If I go this route, that's all I need to buy - nothing else, right? I can have the line cord going into the mount block, and then I can just plug a modular cord into that.

I think this will work, right?

Also, I will not actually attach the surface mount thing to the wall... it can just sit behind my desk, right? I've never encountered one of those before, let alone one that's not affixed to the wall.

Thanks again!

[Alex G. Bell]

Okay, I'll work on stripping the cable but I want to get anything I need to get ordered ordered right away so it'll be here as soon as possible.

I don't need 5, so I think this will work for me, correct?
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-4625A-24W-625A2-Surface-Terminal/dp/B000K2A37S/

"5"?  I don't understand.

If you want to use a modular jack that should be okay but you  cannot apply a modular plug directly to that cord.  The OD of the conductor insulation is too great to fit into the channels of a crimped modular plug.  You will have to find one with screw terminations like MariePR showed recently in the topic related to phasing out of copper cable by Verizon.

I'm confused if the different tools you are talking about are just one way of doing this or multiple ways.
I can't find "insulation piercing spade tips" for sale online.

It's the proper way to do it that will be reliable.  This is tinsel cord and I described the only legit way to terminate it.  I believe Digi-Key sells proper lugs and you will find other topics on CRPF discussing both the lugs and the tools.  It's a problem which comes up periodically.

I think I will go with the surface mount connection block option (the Amazon link above). I would strip the cable enough to get the wires attached inside the block.
If I go this route, that's all I need to buy - nothing else, right? I can have the line cord going into the mount block, and then I can just plug a modular cord into that.

I think this will work, right?

Wrong.  I told you how to do it.  You cannot reliably terminate tinsel conductors in this cord by wrapping them around screws and tightening them.  If you put spade tips on it as instructed then you could terminate it on a modular jack and use a short double ended modular cord to patch it to a wall jack.

Also, I will not actually attach the surface mount thing to the wall... it can just sit behind my desk, right? I've never encountered one of those before, let alone one that's not affixed to the wall.

Thanks again!

You're welcome.  Yes, people commonly use a jack with a 6" modular double ended cord to connect a spade tipped cord to a modular jack.  It's okay if the jack won't be in the way and get stepped on, such as under furniture.  But regardless, you need to apply insulation piercing spade tips.  They are made in different sizes and must be sized for the diameter of the conductors.  If designed for much smaller or larger diameter leads the connection may be unreliable.

[TelePlay]

I don't need 5, so I think this will work for me, correct?
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-4625A-24W-625A2-Surface-Terminal/dp/B000K2A37S/

Okay, let's work the math. 5 for $7.43 with free shipping is $1.46 each total.

Now, 1 for $7.36 (almond) with free shipping if your order is over $25 or have Amazon Prime would be $7.36 each minimum.

It's up to you.

[TelePlay]

    http://www.allelectronics.com/item/mt-103/4-pin-surface-mount-modular-wall-jack-ivory/1.html

( Dead link - 3/15/24: company went out of business)

$0.65 each.

[TelePlay]

Is this available on Amazon at all?

Sure.

     https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-4625A-24W-625A2-Surface-Terminal/dp/B000K2A37S/

[HarrySmith]

The connecting block on Amazon is fine. Alex was talking about terminating the wires inside it without spade tips which will not work. Here is a topic about spades & crimpers:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4071.msg188457#msg188457

[TelePlay]

That's what I asked Alex if I could buy and he said no - it was the wrong one. Apparently, there are several types and that is not one that would work.

Amazon does not do a good job at displaying the item. These may be wall mounts where station wire goes directly through the wall into the wall mount modular jack. The one from All-Electronics is hard wired through the wall mount jack with a modular jack on the side. The group of 5 on eBay have a mouse hole and are adapters.. I'll trust Alex and saying the Amazon plugs are wrong.

[Alex G. Bell]

John, thanks for the math, I usually buy in bulk so I'm not sure why I wasn't thinking of that in this case. And thank you Alex for the explanation as to why I need the tinsel spade stuff. It helps to know why.

I did a search for the tinsel/spade stuff you are talking about, using the keywords you providing, but nothing is coming up. Since you probably know exactly what you're talking about, would you mind sending me a link to it on Amazon? (I like eBay, especially for telephone stuff, but long story short, I can't buy from eBay directly and it's too much hassle).

I don't look at Amazon and have not had to buy any of these recently.  I'm sure I've seen topics here on CRPF covering this topic in detail and that if you use the search function you will find it.

Radio Shack used to sell a tool and spade tips which were good for the tiny 28AWG conductors in modular cordage and also for somewhat bigger leads too.  They may be compatible with this cord.  The main considerations are whether the sides of the lug are the proper height to wrap over the insulation tightly so the points at the bottom pierce the insulation and penetrate the conductor and whether the points are long enough to reach through the insulation, which depends on its thickness.

IIRC, in the CRPF topic I saw discussed someone discovered a source for the identical tool other than from Radio Shack since getting it from them is no longer a possibility.

I've attached a not very good photo I saved from the R-S website for the 640-3070 spade tip as a typical example

[TelePlay]

Everything you need to know is in this topic.

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4071.msg175922#msg175922

[.....]

Here they are on eBay.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Antique-telephone-gold-lugs-100-pc-self-piecring-for-plastic-wire-OLD-phones/201085653385

[bellsystem]

These long cords also have extra strength strain reliefs for anchoring the jacket of the cord to the telephone set and 42A connecting block or plug. If you strip the jacket back sufficiently you will find conductors, probably 4 even though only 2 are usually required.  You can get insulation piercing spade tips to terminate the leads, a proper tool to apply them, and if you are lucky maybe someone will have a strain relief salvaged from a cut off cord. 

If not, it's possible to use a couple of small nylon cable ties by putting one around the jacket and using it to bind a second one in line with the length of the cord to secure the end of the cord to the plug.  Best to not cut off the exposed string end but to wrap it over the end of the jacket and bind it under the tie that goes around the jacket so the string takes the force of any tugs on the cord. Once you have re-terminated the "wall end" of the cord you can attach a plug.

Okay, so I found these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Spade-Crimp-Terminal/dp/B0002KR2V8/
It's a shabby price, but I do get 4 in case I mess up doing whatever I need to do (if that can happen). Is this the right thing? They look very different on Amazon - and are colored for whatever reason.

Basically, I've picked that I need a spade lug. The Wikipedia article for it redirects and is no use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spade_lug
This talks a bit about what it is but not really how it relates to telephone line cords specifically: https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/206%20Spade%20Lug%20Terminals.html

What exactly does this do? It looks kind of like the alligator clips on some phone stuff. Is it supposed to pierce the conducting wires inside the line cord? In most pictures, I'm just seeing a tip - does this get connected to a cable? What is being crimped?

If I went this route, what else do I need besides a spade lug tip? A spade lug cable? Any old connection block or is a specific type required? (I'm going to infer that the spade lug tips pierces tip and ring, the spade lug tip is connected to a spade lug cable, the cable is stripped at the other end and wired into a connection block, and the line cords plugs into that... do I have it?)

[Alex G. Bell]

Okay, so I found these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Spade-Crimp-Terminal/dp/B0002KR2V8/
It's a shabby price, but I do get 4 in case I mess up doing whatever I need to do (if that can happen). Is this the right thing? They look very different on Amazon - and are colored for whatever reason.

Basically, I've picked that I need a spade lug. The Wikipedia article for it redirects and is no use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spade_lug

The above are all for larger stranded or solid but not for tinsel leads in commercial electrical/electronic equipment.  They are not insulation piercing.  They require the insulation to be stripped and the terminal crimped to the conductor itself.  That is satisfactory because these conductors are strong enough.  Tinsel is not because it consists of flat conductors wound in a helix around a non-metallic core, hence it would crush and break off soon if crimped this way.  That's why piercing spade tips crimp around the outside of the insulation without removing it and pierce through with tangs that are part of the lug to establish electrical contact.

This talks a bit about what it is but not really how it relates to telephone line cords specifically: https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/206%20Spade%20Lug%20Terminals.html
What exactly does this do? It looks kind of like the alligator clips on some phone stuff. Is it supposed to pierce the conducting wires inside the line cord? In most pictures, I'm just seeing a tip - does this get connected to a cable? What is being crimped?

I don't see anything there fundamentally different from the wikipedia article and don't understand the ref. to alligator clips.

If I went this route, what else do I need besides a spade lug tip? A spade lug cable? Any old connection block or is a specific type required? (I'm going to infer that the spade lug tips pierces tip and ring, the spade lug tip is connected to a spade lug cable, the cable is stripped at the other end and wired into a connection block, and the line cords plugs into that... do I have it?)

No.  "Spade lug cable" is an invention of yours.  It does not exist.  I explained in my first post that you need to crimp insulation piercing spade tips onto the leads.  Since they pierce the insulation and for the reasons I have explained, the insulation does not get stripped.  Please re-read it.

Others have already posted a link to a topic which discusses proper piercing spade tips:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Antique-telephone-gold-lugs-100-pc-self-piecring-for-plastic-wire-OLD-phones/201085653385
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4071.msg188457#msg188457
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4071.msg175922#msg175922
before my previous reply. 

You would save yourself time and effort searching uselessly for things which have already been pointed out to you and from reaching erroneous conclusions about what you found by reading all replies and opening their links before replying to any one of them.