I have acquired a Western Electric 1D2 payphone and want to get it working in
my gameroom. I have all the keys and the T-bar and have it opened.
There is an AT&T 22B identification inside.
I have hooked up the Red and Green wires to the Tip and Ring connections.
All this payphone will do is ring - cannot answer or call out.
When I deposit coins, they just fall down to the Coin Return.
Any help on how to make this work with ordinary phone wiring is appreciated.
Thanks
Carl
Quote from: cwmoser on January 05, 2013, 03:57:38 PM
I have acquired a Western Electric 1D2 payphone and want to get it working in
my gameroom. I have all the keys and the T-bar and have it opened.
There is an AT&T 22B identification inside.
I have hooked up the Red and Green wires to the Tip and Ring connections.
All this payphone will do is ring - cannot answer or call out.
When I deposit coins, they just fall down to the Coin Return.
Any help on how to make this work with ordinary phone wiring is appreciated.
Thanks
Carl
Hi Carl:
Normally, these will work without
ANY modifications on a home line. Your phone may have problems unrelated to its installation. Insofar as the coins falling right through, the coin relay is likely (and should be) tied so the coins can drop all the way, and not plug up the escrow.
The reversing the red and green leads either at the phone, or in the jack you connect it to. If that fails, to begin, open it up, and unplug then re-plug all plugs.
If that fails, you may have a problem with the hook-switch or with the handset. Take photos of the inside of the upper section, and of the board in the lower section.
Dave
I reversed the Red and Green wires -- still cannot make outbound calls or
even answer a call.
The Coin Chute is labeled "AT&T 22B Custom Manufactured in Taiwan ROC for AT&T 05-96"
Here is what it looks like inside:
(http://www.cerant.com/FullViewInside1-800.jpeg)
Quote from: cwmoser on January 05, 2013, 04:55:47 PM
I reversed the Red and Green wires -- still cannot make outbound calls or
even answer a call.
The Coin Chute is labeled "AT&T 22B Custom Manufactured in Taiwan ROC for AT&T 05-96"
Ok, your phone has the newest Elcotel manufactured board in it.
Read through:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8346.0
and see if it gives you any ideas. See the following link:
http://tinyurl.com/cpl3mgx
regarding the need to set the initial rate setting before these will work properly. If yours is indeed new and unused, the rate may never have been set...
Dave
Thanks Dave.
I read through the links.
There was one mention in the link to hook the Red and Green wires to Line1 and Line2 - is that an error?
I think my Payphone was new. I set the switches on the Coin Chute for 1D2.
Not sure if that is right. There is a label showing other possible settings like 32A/32B/32C, 35A, 37A, 35C and 36 A&B. I set it for 1D and 2O 32A/32B/32C.
Carl
No, the Red and Green wires are what is known as L1 and L2 - that is where they should connect on the upper connection block.
Since none of us have docs for that board, you will have to play with settings. But make sure your totalizer is set for at least a quarter. Once again, without docs for the board, I can't help you out more - I am more familiar with the older 1D2s with the original Western Electric board. Make not of the original settings if you change any jumpers, etc. But first pay attention to the totalizer setting... It is apparently a switch on the board according to comments on the Sundance site.. I have requested documentation on the board - hopefully someone will have it.
Dave
Dave,
On my AT&T 32C chassis, I have these 2 terminal blocks:
Ring
Tip
GND
Bell
(The payphones Bell wires are connected to Ring and Bell terminals)
I have my phone wires (Red, Green) on Ring and Tip terminals above.
L1
42
Yel
Blk
(Big Relay connected to Yel and Blk terminals)
I set the 22B Coin Chute to 32C – all DIP switches = OFF
I did try to connect my phone wires to the lower block's L1 and 42 but nothing - no bell either.
With my phone wires connected to the upper blocks Ring and Tip, I did get the bell to ring but
nothing else.
Carl
Also set the coin setting to 25 cents
Carl
Quote from: cwmoser on January 05, 2013, 07:00:14 PM
Also set the coin setting to 25 cents
Carl
Was going to ask you that...
No, you are connected to the correct terminals. Check for handset leads loose inside the top section of the phone... Rate switch dip switch shown below. Despite what the photo shows switch one and three should be set to the right. All the rest should go to the left. (Its the only photo I had access to) The photo shows no rate set. Below the photo, I have placed a blow-up of the rate setting chart.
Dave
Let me know if you discover anything else. That is about all I can think of right now, without actually seeing it... If anything comes to mind, I will let you know. I am still trying to find a drawing or manual for that later 32B assembly. There have been quite a few 1D2s with this later board showing up lately.
Dave
Out of curiosity, does this payphone require any AC or DC power to function?
All I have connected to it now are just the Red and Green wires from the phone line.
Carl
One observation ... though this was a new payphone when I purchased it back in the
1990's, the handset is cracked and I have not been able to unscrew the
earpiece or mouthpiece. Also need to find a wiring diagram to check that the handset
is wired up correctly.
Also, when I call the line, when I remove the handset from the hook, it does not answer the
call. Taking the handset off the hook is supposed to do what electrically?
Thanks
Carl
Quote from: cwmoser on January 06, 2013, 07:02:48 AM
One observation ... though this was a new payphone when I purchased it back in the
1990's, the handset is cracked and I have not been able to unscrew the
earpiece or mouthpiece. Also need to find a wiring diagram to check that the handset
is wired up correctly.
Also, when I call the line, when I remove the handset from the hook, it does not answer the
call. Taking the handset off the hook is supposed to do what electrically?
Thanks
Carl
Try to kill two birds with one stone. No, this board was the last of the dumb boards - it is line powered, and unlike the newer COCOT boards (programmable), needs no external power.
For handset wiring, see the information in that link I gave you earlier to the Sundance site.
There is a hook-switch in these which provides the switching for the handset- in this one, it is likely a micro-switch - if it were bad, it could conceivably cause the problem.
Re: Handset - the crack shouldn't cause a problem, but bad elements or conductors in the cord could. The earpiece/mouthpiece covers on all later payphones including this one are either glued or ultrasonically welded to discourage theft and cheating. You might be able to break the weld with a strap wrench, but there is also a possibility the plastic will break rather than the weld. They are normally replaced as a unit. However, I have managed to break the weld in a few of them successfully using a removal tool I have here, and also using a strap wrench.
I am surprised actually we haven't figured out what its problem is - the last one we were asked about is now working, though with slightly low volume. I suspect now we should be looking into a phone fault, such as bad handset or bad hook switch, both in the front cover...
Just a thought - you are remembering to re-connect the front panel to the bottom section when you are testing it - I know, dumb question, but stranger things have happened in the past :)
I have put out a call for documentation for this board, and if I am able to locate one, I will certainly share it with you in a PDF file. The problem may be is these are very old technology - they last made them in the early 90s, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there about them. In fact, it is easier to get information on the earlier style boards Western used on the 1D2 than it is for this one.
Dave
I took apart the keypad module 61M1PF and noted that a large IC is missing - see photo.
Could this be the reason for it not working properly???
(http://cerant.com/CoinDial61M1PF-800.jpeg)
Quote from: cwmoser on January 06, 2013, 10:02:29 AM
I took apart the keypad module 61M1PF and noted that a large IC is missing - see photo.
Could this be the reason for it not working properly???
Sounds like a pretty good probability. Hard to be 100% certain, as we don't have drawings for the phone, but this is likely the tone generation chip, and may also include the hook switch electronics.
From Googling, apparently the dial was made by Lucent Technology, Model 61M1PF, There are a number of them available in web searches, but no prices given. And that is for the entire assembly and it may be quite expensive buying it that way. What I might suggest is giving http://www.payphone.com at 1-800-884-4835 a call looking for either a replacement chip or a rebuilt dial - see what kind of information they may come up with...
This assembly incorporates the switch hook with the dial electronics, and very well could be the cause of the problem. As mentioned before, a 1D2 (all older ones), will operate as supplied on home lines, just by hooking L1 and L2 to T&R. Yours does throw a curve at us, as it is fitted with the later board and dial. However, it isn't late enough to be COCOT, and should operate the same. Let us know if you find any more information on it, or if you discover a solution, so that we can pass along the solution to others. Of course, anything I get on the subject, I will pass along to you.
So this brings us back to what we suspected, that is was a problem with the phone, and not with the way it was connected. You might also place a query on some of the commercial payphone forums - one of their users who run payphone routes might have one in good condition, and you might get it quite a bit cheaper, since I imagine it would be obsolete technology to them...
Dave
Thanks Dave. I wonder if I found a behind back panel assembly for an older 1D2
that it would then work.
Carl
Quote from: cwmoser on January 07, 2013, 07:47:38 AM
Thanks Dave. I wonder if I found a behind back panel assembly for an older 1D2
that it would then work.
Carl
Hi Carl:
Not sure what you mean by "behind back panel assembly". Payphones are made up with two basic assemblies the lower case, and the upper case. The upper case is the section which mounts on front and contains the dial.
I assume it is the upper section you are talking about. Being somewhat unsure of the later 1D2s, I can't be sure. Likely but it is possible the earlier upper section is not compatible.
I notice that payphone.com has what they call a Western Style Keypad:
http://www.payphone.com/Western-Keypad-Assembly.html
Which might work for you. A refurbished one is $19.95, but I wouldn't order it without talking to them and asking if it is compatible with your board. They will be glad to help with that if they can. Their number is 1-800-884-4835 toll free from the US.
The only way one could be 100% certain which portion of the phone is faulty, is if we had an identical working phone, and could exchange bother parts back and forth to determine which section was bad. But it is quite likely that the dial is to blame, especially when you found the chip missing in the dial. All indications do seem to point at the dial assembly.
Dave