Discussion of several options for wall end line cord connectors

[bellsystem]

I read every word of every reply and clicked on all of the links (and looked at them too. I ended up pretty much reading the entire thread)

None of those links, however, show how this works in the bigger picture. Okay, I don't strip the cable (don't mind saving work anyways). Well, what does a "spade lug" get connected to? The pictures show it being just a tip. I don't see how that helps me.

A search for "tinsel spade lug" does not bring up anything. I did find this cool doohickey though that if it worked would be awesome (I wouldn't need a connection block). Would I be able to use this: https://www.amazon.com/Spade-Telephone-Cable-Connector-Meters/dp/B00Y20YBW2/
Here's a very similar one as well: https://www.amazon.com/Spade-Telephone-Cable-Connector-Meters/dp/B013FJJRME/
It says "spade lug in the name" and obviously is telephone-related.

By alligator clips I mean clips like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400669393099

[Alex G. Bell]

I read every word of every reply and clicked on all of the links (and looked at them too. I ended up pretty much reading the entire thread)

None of those links, however, show how this works in the bigger picture. Okay, I don't strip the cable (don't mind saving work anyways). Well, what does a "spade lug" get connected to? The pictures show it being just a tip. I don't see how that helps me.

I thought it was a given that since connecting blocks, 4 pin plugs and the modular jacks you proposed to use have screw terminals and I said that you need to put spade tips on the ends of the leads it was obvious enough not to need to state that the spade tips slip under the screw head.  You may need to loosen the screw to get it under the head and certainly will need to tighten it afterwards.

OTOH, I subsequently said: "You cannot reliably terminate tinsel conductors in this cord by wrapping them around screws and tightening them.  If you put spade tips on it as instructed then you could terminate it on a modular jack..."

So how can you be asking me what to do with the spade tips?  I don't understand how it's possible for you to ask.

A search for "tinsel spade lug" does not bring up anything. I did find this cool doohickey though that if it worked would be awesome (I wouldn't need a connection block). Would I be able to use this: https://www.amazon.com/Spade-Telephone-Cable-Connector-Meters/dp/B00Y20YBW2/
Here's a very similar one as well: https://www.amazon.com/Spade-Telephone-Cable-Connector-Meters/dp/B013FJJRME/
It says "spade lug in the name" and obviously is telephone-related.

These are called "half modular" cords because they have 2 ends and only one has a modular plug on it.

Normally one would be used instead of your original long green cord, connected into the phone in place of it.  I would not think you would want to remove and not use the original green cord in favor of a flat cord of non-matching color.

I don't know how you have in mind to use one of these half-modular cords other than by replacing the green cord.  If you are thinking to connect it to the end of the green cord (once equipped with spade tips) how could you join the two except by using some kind of terminal strip with at least 2 terminal screws?  I see no benefit to using a half modular cord unless you prefer the simplicity of it over the originality of the green cord, replacing rather than repairing it.

By alligator clips I mean clips like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400669393099

I know what alligator clips are.  I don't see any relation between the link you originally posted showing spade tips and alligator clips you mentioned in the accompanying text.

[TelePlay]

Okay, so I found these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Spade-Crimp-Terminal/dp/B0002KR2V8/
It's a shabby price, but I do get 4 in case I mess up doing whatever I need to do (if that can happen). Is this the right thing? They look very different on Amazon - and are colored for whatever reason.

BTW: The above linked spade lugs are for #8 or 8 gauge wire which is 0.171875" in diameter (about 5/32" without its insulation).

On the other hand, #28 or 28 gauge telephone wire is 0.015625" in diameter (about 1/64").

That's less than 1/10th the diameter of #8 wire. Listen to Alex to get the right stuff. I gave you THE forum link to current best price suppliers of crimpers and self piercing spade lugs. That work's been done, accumulated there, over a period of several years. Why are you trying to re-invent the wheel? There is no other tool or spade lugs out there that will work with telephone wire, cloth or vinyl, period.

[bellsystem]

Alex, I would of course never even consider replacing the green cord. I'd rather not even use the phone if it meant gutting the original cord.

It seems like I'm just digging myself into a whole here. Obviously, I still don't know what I need. Could someone just show me on Amazon what the right thing would be to buy? It's the only website I can buy from.

Speaking of tinsel, the WE302 I had a similar, but in hindsight easier, problem with sounds similar to this. The wires were wrapped in tinsel. But I stripped enough of the cable away that I could tape it to the wires inside a decommissioned wall jack and I could plug a modular cable into it. But it sounds like this 500 is not like that, since I'm not stripping anything.

That's why piercing spade tips crimp around the outside of the insulation without removing it and pierce through with tangs that are part of the lug to establish electrical contact.
"Spade lug cable" is an invention of yours.  It does not exist.  I explained in my first post that you need to crimp insulation piercing spade tips onto the leads.  Since they pierce the insulation and for the reasons I have explained, the insulation does not get stripped.  Please re-read it.

You already told me before not to strip. I know that. So, crimp insulation piercing spade tips are the same as spade lugs, correct? Then what are leads? And how do you terminate a spade tip/lug on a modular jack? That doesn't make any sense to me.

[Alex G. Bell]

It seems like I'm just digging myself into a whole here.

"hole", not "whole"

Obviously, I still don't know what I need. Could someone just show me on Amazon what the right thing would be to buy? It's the only website I can buy from.

Not me.  I have no reason to think they're on Amazon and I've already sunk enough time into this.  You need to find a way to buy from any of the places they are known to be available.

Speaking of tinsel, the WE302 I had a similar, but in hindsight easier, problem with sounds similar to this. The wires were wrapped in tinsel. But I stripped enough of the cable away that I could tape it to the wires inside a decommissioned wall jack and I could plug a modular cable into it.

I watched that thread and was amazed to see you resist every attempt to explain to you how to do it neatly, correctly and reliably, choosing to improvise a crude unreliable mess.   For every attempt people made to explain how to do it properly you had a reason why it was "impossible".  If you resist everything people tell you and find reasons why the simplest thing is impossible it's impossible to help you and just a waste of peoples' time for them to try.

But it sounds like this 500 is not like that, since I'm not stripping anything.

To the contrary.  It's fundamentally the same problem which needs the same solution.  The only difference was the jacket and insulation types between the two cords and the diameter of the wire leads you needed to have put the insulation piercing spade tips on.  So you should have used insulation piercing spade tips on the 302.

You already told me before not to strip. I know that. So, crimp insulation piercing spade tips are the same as spade lugs, correct?

In most languages there are multiple words which basically mean the same thing but certain words or "terms" are used in one industry while slightly different words which mean the same thing are used in another industry.  A "spade tip" and a "spade lug" are basically the same.  An "insulation piercing spade tip" is a specific type of spade tip or spade lug.  There are spade tips which solder onto the end of the lead, which are not suitable for tinsel wire.  That's why "crimp insulation piercing spade tips" ("crimp" is first an adjective) are crimped ("crimp" is second a verb here) onto the wire lead ends.

Then what are leads?

A "lead", pronounced "leed" or "lede", not "led" like the metal, is a connecting wire in an electrical circuit.

And how do you terminate a spade tip/lug on a modular jack? That doesn't make any sense to me.

"crimp" in the phrase "crimp lug" is and adjective.  "Lug" is a noun.  "crimp lugs" are attached to the end of a wire by "crimping", in which context "crimp" is a verb. 

As stated previously, after the spade tip is crimped onto the end of the lead or wire or wire lead or lead wire, the forked end of the spade tip is inserted under the head of a screw terminal after first loosening the screw sufficiently by turning it counterclockwise (to the left) with a screwdriver to provide enough space under the head for the forked end of the lug to slip under.  The screw is then tightened by turning it clockwise (to the right) with a screwdriver. 

Have you never opened any of your phones and seen the spade tips on the ends of every internal connecting lead attached under the heads of the terminal screws?  How can this need to be explained?  I'm baffled.

If these are the screw terminals on a modular wall jack like others pointed out, you will now be able to "patch" (interconnect) the jack to the wall jack feeding dial tone from the central office using a modular cord with a plug on each end.

[bellsystem]

"hole", not "whole"

Have you never opened any of your phones and seen the spade tips on the ends of every internal connecting lead attached under the heads of the terminal screws?  How can this need to be explained?  I'm baffled.

See what I mean??

I've only opened up one of my phones to service (well, I did open the 302 up as well, so two of them) but that was because the modular jack in the back was stuck inside the phone and I had to get it out. And then after plugging a line cord into and an unplugging it, it just broke, so I now have about 15 twistie ties binding the line cord to the jack. It's an ITT, so that's probably what it was flimsy.

I have seen those screws but that's not what I've been picturing in these threads. I saw those inside the 302. They are just slipped under the screw, not actually puncturing any insulated wire so I'm not sure if that's the same thing.

All of my other phones were plug and play out of the box so I've never bothered to open them up. I tried once but the screws were so tight and I didn't really need to open them anyways so I haven't bothered since.



Ok, so one end of the spade tip is basically going to crimp my green cord at the end, and the other is going to be connected to a screw terminal?

Is this the type of screw terminal you're talking about? https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Pinch-Mount-Terminal-Connector/dp/B01MT4LC0F/
Or maybe something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Black-Wallmount-Screw-Down-Terminal-6-Wire/dp/B00F4RIQNM/

Am I going to need one of these or can I do without it? https://www.amazon.com/Pc-Accessories-Terminals-Crimping-D-Sub/dp/B007R2JLJK/

Is this what you were talking about when you said I might be lucky enough to find one with the plug on it? http://www.ebay.com/itm/112356731931

Okay, so if I get these, these WILL work? (They are the correct type of spade lug)? http://www.ebay.com/itm/201085653385
I looked on eBay to find lower quantities, maybe 5 or 10, but I can't find any others. Don't know what I would do with all of them. But I guess I have no other choice.

Thanks again.

[HarrySmith]

Those are the correct spades. You will need the crimper to attach the spades to the wire. You do not need any terminals, they are inside the connecting block. Crimp spades to your line cord wires, open up the connecting block and attach the wires with the spades on them to the screws, you only need 2 wires, red & green.

[bellsystem]

Okay, I will get one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Pc-Accessories-Terminals-Crimping-D-Sub/dp/B007R2JLJK/

Instead of this: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Wallmount-Screw-Down-Terminal-6-Wire/dp/B00F4RIQNM/
Can I get this? https://www.amazon.com/Female-Mount-Modular-Phone-10pack/dp/B00ICUMF5S/
It ships faster and includes 10 of them for the same cost. If I get this, I may end up redoing my 302's wiring with this as I'm using a makeshift connection block right now made out of cardboard and Styrofoam.

I'll get these If I have to: Spade lug: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201085653385
but...
Can I use this or does it not have the right spade lugs on the end? http://www.ebay.com/itm/112356731931
The connectors look similar to the spade lugs (100pc) but I can't tell. Only tip and ring are in the cable. I don't know if this can only be used as a replacement for the entire cord, or if I could somehow just crimp this onto the tip of the existing line cord and then avoid buying a connection block altogether.

I'll put in the order soon and want to make sure I don't leave anything out (and that I'm buying the right stuff).


Thanks again.
Pictures shown in order of links

[TelePlay]

I hope you realize all of the links you provided in you replies will be dead in less than a few months making this discussion even more confusing and totally meaningless to anyone who reads it in a year from now. External links to Amazon and eBay loose their URL when the item is sold so no one, if they wanted to, would be able to "see" what you are talking about.

This is not an IM or social media forum. External links must be accompanied with images taken from those links (screen captures are fine) to provide future support and current context to the conversation. Making a member follow your multiple links and keep them straight in their head will trying to comprehend the hole discussion is quite rude.

Please post images.

[HarrySmith]

The crimpers & spades are fine. You will still need the connecting block. You do'nt need the line cord as it will still require a connecting block. I cannot tell if the ones you posted are correct as they do not show the insides.

[bellsystem]

How can I discern the connecting blocks that would work in this situation from those that would not? Are they named a certain way or are there different components inside?


Also, links in my opinion are just as useful, if not more useful, as pictures. The link showed information about the product itself and had multiple pictures. Pictures are find, but links are not necessarily useless.

[Doug Rose]

BS......links go away...pictures stay. John was trying to help you....Kidphone

[HarrySmith]

How can I discern the connecting blocks that would work in this situation from those that would not? Are they named a certain way or are there different components inside?


Also, links in my opinion are just as useful, if not more useful, as pictures. The link showed information about the product itself and had multiple pictures. Pictures are find, but links are not necessarily useless.

The ones we pointed out on eBay and Alltel are what you need. The one on Amazon is over $12.00! Way too much. It looks like it may be the correct one but we cannot see the inside to verify. The ones on eBay are less money and you will have spares for future projects. The problem with links is they eventually go away. Someone years from now may be looking for the same product but when the click the links they will get a 404 error. At least with a picture they can see what they need.

[TelePlay]

Thanks, Doug and Harry. Just thinking of the forum long term. This is a very good example of what happens when a member has resorted to exteranal links to images or sites:

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6952.0

As for the connecting blocks, there are two types, maybe more. One type requires the in the wall wiring to come out of a hole in the wall into the back of the block and attached to screw terminals inside the block, which is then screwed to the wall and the cover attached - a permanent wall mount.

The other type is the adapter block which has, like the one above, a modular jack on one side but it also has a mouse hole opening on the back for a line cord to enter and be attached to screw terminals inside the block.

The first is a line cord to station wire application. A permanent wall mount where a box, plate and modular jack in the wall are not available.

The second is an adapter which converts the line cord to a modular jack which can them be connected with a 1 foot or 50 foot modular cord (modular jacks on both ends) to a modular jack already somewhere in the wall, or a 616 station jack.

If a seller does not show the mouse hole, assume it is a permanent wall mount (just like the standard wall jack but without a box and plate). If the seller does show the mouse hole, as in the eBay and All-Electronics links I gave you, then it is an adapter application.

[bellsystem]

Okay, thanks all. I think I finally get it.

So I need:

• A crimper
• An antique telephone gold lug
• Modular Surface Mount Box with mousehole

And that's it? I can just order those and that will be all I need?

Also are these the same?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112007938868 (Surface Mount box above)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N7JD/

It's also hard to see if the Amazon one has a mousehole.