Northern Electric w/B1A ringer - wont' ring!

[SuzB]

Hi all - I'm new to this forum - I have an old bakelite Northern Electric rotary phone (not sure what model) that won't ring. I get a dial tone, and I can call out just fine. Inside is what I have learned is a B1A ringer. There's lots of wires inside of diff colours (red green black yellow). Coming out from what seems to be the 'ringer/bell box' are 2 wires that are not attached to anything - one of them is red and the other is kind of black/dark grey. I am assuming that either one or both of these need to be attached somewhere in order for the phone to ring - but I have absolutely no clue where these are supposed to be attached.
Can anyone help?

[paul-f]

Welcome to the forum!

You've found a place with lots of helpful folks who love phones.

Can you post clear close-up photos showing the current wiring to help us understand your current situation?

When replying to the topic, click on additional options to upload your photos.

[SuzB]

Oh dear... I have nothing that will take a digital upload-able picture... I will see if I can borrow  a digital camera or cellphone from somebody to snap a pic that I can upload and hopefully that will help!   Stay tuned!

[LarryInMichigan]

SuzB,

The wiring diagram here might help you: http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=1991&Itemid=11.

Larry

[Bill]

According to Ralph Meyer's book (2nd Ed.), the type B ringer came in two variants. Both have two coils. In the B2A ringer, two leads are brought out from each coil, for a total of four. The colors were Red, Black, Slate, and Slate-Red.

The B1A is physcially and electrically identical to the B2A, except that the Slate and Slate-Red leads are connected to each other internally, and only the Black and Red leads are brought out.

If you have a two-lead ringer, one of the leads (usually Red, but it doesn't matter) is connected to L1, and the other lead is connected to L2 through a capacitor. If you have a four-lead ringer, the same connections apply, but in addition you must connect the Slate and Slate-Red leads to each other, ensuring they are not connected to anything else. You could make a "flying connection" and insulate it with tape. Or, depending on the model, there may be an otherwise-unused screw terminal you could use.

So it sounds like your ringer was simply disconnected at some point. Look around, and you will find an unused lead from a capacitor somewhere, and you can make the connection.

Hope this helps.

Bill

[bingster]

If photos are a problem, can you tell us any markings or numbers that you might see on either the phone or the handset?

I'm a little confused about the ringer box.  Normally there shouldn't be one with a plastic phone, as the bells should be inside the phone, itself.

[SuzB]

HI again - sorry re 'ringer box' confusion - it's not on the outside of the phone, it's on the inside. The handset of the phone has Northern Electric and some patent dates. I think a picture may help - I can't see a model number anywhere.  I have a friend w/a digital camera who can come and take pics next week...
I see a black box-type structure inside, on the base of the phone, with lots of wires attached to it, and with an L1 and an L2 on it - but there seem to already be wires attached here so am not sure what to do. It does seem clear that the ringer has simply been disconnected but there doesn't seem to be an obvious 'free' spot for red and black wires  to attach to.   Sorry guys I'm totally new to all this -  I keep looking at various diagrams and honestly am having trouble mapping the parts and connections to what I am looking at in my phone...as you can tell by my reference to 'black box-type structure', am struggling to figure out the terminology.

[bingster]

It does seem to make sense that there would be one screw for each wire, but the reality is that each screw can have several wires under it.  By any chance, does your phone look like the one below?  If it does, you can try following the diagram here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2761.0

As you can see in the diagram, the red wire from the ringer connects to "L1" which also has a couple other wires attached to it.  The black wire from the ringer connects to "K" on the little square terminal board just to the right of the ringer along with another wire.

[SuzB]

it does look similar to this phone - not exactly the same, but close! I have printed off the diagram from the link and will have a go at it! Will let you know what happens! Thank you!

[LarryInMichigan]

SuzB,

Does it look like this one?  This is a Northern Electric Uniphone.  The wiring is about the same for this as for the 302 the bingster posted.  Wiring the ringer to work should be simple.  Once it is properly connected, if it does not ring well, you can try adjusting the position of the bias spring (the wire between the two coils in the ringer).

Larry

[SuzB]

Yes it does look pretty much like this picture I must say... I had a look at the wiring diagram and compared it against the wiring in my phone's innards...problem is the existing wiring does not match what's on the diagram. I have a dialtone and can make calls, so don't want to mess that up....At any rate, I think what I will do is have my friend with a digital camera take some snaps of the inside of the phone showing the wiring as it is now....and that will enable ppl to see what I'm seeing on my end..
THanks!
Suzanne

[tnorm]

Suzb

I just had the same problem and got it resolved. Check out my answer on my post which is just above yours entitled ("Northern Electric Model 1 stays hot")  Maybe it will solve your problem. 

[SuzB]

Hi again all - ok - so update on the Northern Electric phone that won' t ring - don't have a digitical pic yet, but here's the situation. I am using the wiring diagram for WE 302/2 wire ringer that is available on this site.    I see where the black and red wires for the ringer need to be attched - the black to K and the red to L1. I messed UP trying to attach the black wire to K - the existing screw was old and in trying to loosen it, the top of it snapped right off. So now I have the 'stub' of the screw still in the hole - stuck.  So - question - I see there are two kind of 'twin' holes labelled K on the diagram. First question is whether I can simply use the other hole/port to attach and connect the slate wire from the transformer and the black ringer wire? Or do I need to resort to soldering/using conductive epoxy to fix the wires around the stub of the screw?
Second question is this - the diagram shows a Green to Line wire and a Red to line wire. The green attaches at L2 and the red to L1.  On my phone, this is reversed for some reason, but also, there is a yellow line wire that is attached to GND.   Is this wiring ok? or do I need to change anything? Note I am getting a dialtone and can call out.
Any help much appreciated!

[HarrySmith]

Yes, you can use the other terminal. You can also attach the two wires directly together as I just did on a project I recently finished adding a dial light to a 5302, I needed the two terminals for the light wiring so I just attached the wires, ringer worked fine. As for the line wires the phone will work either way.

[LarryInMichigan]

SuzB,

You can ignore the yellow wire from the line cord.  It can be connected the the "GND" terminal to keep it from interfering with any other wires.  It does not really matter whether the red is connected to L1 and the green to L2 or vice versa as long as one wire from the ringer is connected to one of the line wires (red or green) and the other is connected to the condenser (capacitor).  The opposite wire from the capacitor connects to the other line wire.  The purpose of the capacitor is to keep DC current from flowing through the ringer coil (capacitors block DC).  If you would connect both ringer wires directly to the line without the capacitor in the circuit, you phone line would be taken "off hook" by the ringer.

Larry