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My D1 and possible damage

Started by davidbholcomb, October 22, 2012, 08:59:06 PM

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davidbholcomb

Hi I like old phones. It started with a Milwaukee wall phone and then I purchased a Western Electric D1 at a garage sale for $4 and I was on the hook! I have a few candle sticks now as well. I love un-restored phones. I joined this forum because I have questions and this seemed to be the place to find answers. My first question was can my D1 and my candle sticks be used as extension phones without a subset? Well searching this forum I ran across postings by bingster and it seems that my D1 must have a subset. So now it leads to a new question. For years the phone has been just plugged in and used with no subset. There appears to be no damage. What damage should I look for? For now the phone is off the hook.
Dave, who still needs a Transmitter Bracket for the Automatic Electric Type 38 Handset.

Phonesrfun

You really should have a subset.  Damage can occur to the receiver where DC applied to the coil can demagnetize the permanent magnet.  Those receivers are not cheap to replace.

Another problem is that there is no way to hook it up to fully work correctly.  You could connect yellow and green across the phone line, but you would not be able to dial.  Also, the action of the hook switch would produce loud clicks in the receiver.  Those clicks are because the high voltage DC is being placed on the receiver.

Subsets can be expensive, so there is at least a way to isolate the receiver and get your phone to work almost the same as with a subset.  A couple of inexpensive parts from Radio Shack will do the trick.  There is a thread on this forum about a "cheater subset" that you should take a look at.
-Bill G

dsk

The DC may harm your receiver(s).
The subset will improve the sound quality, and protect the receiver.
A subset may be used for multiple deskstands.
You may easily make your own subset, everything from simple circuit just protecting the receiver, to a good as the original one.
The simplest well working subset contains a capacitor and a coil. The best subsets contains an induction coil insted of the simple coil.
Ringer(s) could be added together with capacitors if wanted.

If you have an old phone. (Preferably before WE 500) to use for parts, you have almost a ready subset.

dsk

poplar1

#3
It's true that a sidetone subset (295A, 534A, or 584A) can be used with multiple sets.

To use more than one phone with an anti-sidetone (634A, 634BA, 684A, 684BA, 495BP) subset, however, you need extra contacts in the desk stands (candlestick) or hand telephone sets (B-type or D-type).

This is because the red and black wires go to the transmitter of both phones; so, if you are talking on one phone (offhook), then the transmitter of the other phone is also activated. The 215 is the D- model with the extra contacts. The desk stand  with extra contacts is a 151R.

The best inexpensive anti-sidetone subset is the base of a 302. Ray Kotke sells covers for these if you want to improve the appearance. The 302 base is electrically equivalent to a 684BA.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

davidbholcomb

Thanks for all the great replies. So I am lucky there is no damage at this point. I picked up a 684A subset that I will wire to the phone. Not that I knew what I was doing, just that the dates matched, 1936 for the phone and subset. Also thanks for the great suggestion of using one subset for multiple candlesticks. I am not a trained electrician or a phoneman but do enjoy the old phones and have been doing a lot of reading in this column and as I understand it, side tone vs anti-side tone, is just a matter of feedback through the system and not anything that can harm the phone. Which leads to this question, can Stromberg-Carlson and Kellogg CS's use a Western Electric subset?
Dave, who still needs a Transmitter Bracket for the Automatic Electric Type 38 Handset.

poplar1

You can use non-WE phones with a WE subset. However, as I noted above, if you connect two phones to the 684A, you will have the problem of both transmitters being activated.

If you use a sidetone set (3 hookswitch contacts instead of 2 sets of 2), you will have to rewire it to use with an anti-sidetone subset, and there will also be a pop in the receiver.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

dsk

Quote from: davidbholcomb on October 23, 2012, 11:30:00 AM
Thanks for all the great replies. So I am lucky there is no damage at this point. I picked up a 684A subset that I will wire to the phone. Not that I knew what I was doing, just that the dates matched, 1936 for the phone and subset. Also thanks for the great suggestion of using one subset for multiple candlesticks. I am not a trained electrician or a phoneman but do enjoy the old phones and have been doing a lot of reading in this column and as I understand it, side tone vs anti-side tone, is just a matter of feedback through the system and not anything that can harm the phone. Which leads to this question, can Stromberg-Carlson and Kellogg CS's use a Western Electric subset?
Great, and if your telephones are missing that extra switch, you could try to put in one of these privacy adapters in serials with each transmitter.  http://tinyurl.com/35rq874   I have used a similar one with quadrac (diac and triac in one unit) and it works for me.
I would suggest to put it in the 4 prong jack on the red wire.

dsk

Dixon Hall

Question along these lines (no pun intended):  a few years back I bought a 202 dated to 1933. I got it working (dials out, transmits, receives, volume and clarity are good).  In the process, I installed a bit of electronics. I think I got it from oldphoneguy. It has no subset, so it does not ring, which is fine. My 302s do the ringing. Will this setup harm the 202?  In other words, is the electronic component sufficient to insulate the desk set from the current?  I assume what I installed is an electronic subset(?), but without any sort if electronic ringer. Thanks for any insights.

Dix

Dixon Hall

I meant an electronic network, not an electronic subset.

Dix

Mr. Bones

#9
Quote from: Dixon Hall on May 11, 2013, 08:41:14 PM
I meant an electronic network, not an electronic subset.

Dix
I was understanding your intent, so no worries...

    As best I understand it, (waiting to be corrected, if mistaken), a ringer box contains only a ringer, no network. A network contains only a network, no ringer. A subscriber set is the combination of a network, and a ringer.

    I'm a newbie, too, but trying hard to climb the learning curve. ;)

    By the way, in case you hadn't heard, yet; We wants pictures! ;D

Best regards!
Sláinte!
   Mr. Bones
      Rubricollis Ferus

TelePlay

Dixon,

If you haven't already seen this thread below and/or don't know how to do it, DavePEI put up this post detailing the process of posting pictures to the forum. There are others but this one explains it as well as the others.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8990.0

And, yes, we're still waiting for photos of your phone.

Dixon Hall

Thanks, John and Mr. Bones. I'm finding the learning curve steep as well. I have no experience in electronics, so it's mostly a mystery to me. Just trying to make sure I'm not putting the old D1 at risk!  I will put some pics up soon.

Dix