Rewire of WE Candlestick 20AL with 5H Dial

[oldphonelover]

Hello all,

My first post alone... I am rewiring a candlestick that's marked 20AL and has a 5H dial. I need help or a wiring layout for this. I made two pictures here to show the post and backside of the dial. I am so a beginner with this so not all that good on terms but this is my fifth phone and been the biggest puzzle.

So if anyone knows the layout of the wires and can tell me where they go and which way it well be greatly appreciated.

I do have the subset set up so it's just the inside phone wiring...

I did post on another blog but think it got lost in the many pages so wanted to start a new thread.

BTW a special thanks to

Bingster
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.msg9309#msg9309

and to

Phonesrfun
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg39770#msg39770

The wiring diagrams and the subset I made for my ringer worked great and the phone is up and running, thanks for sharing your great disigns and work. The phone I used it on was a D1 desk set with a oak ringer box... Here's a pic of it as well...

Thanks
Ron

[dencins]

I suggest you look at the wiring diagram for a 150-AL or 151-AL - same wiring but 151-AL had a bulldog transmitter while the 150-AL had solid back transmitters.  The 20-AL was non-dial - probably the perch was used on a 150 base.

Dennis Hallworth

[oldphonelover]

I looked at that 151AL wiring and went through all the candle wiring on that site for wiring but my dial has an extra screw marked R. I think it isn't the original dial not sure though. I was hoping that someone could connect the lines for me as candles seem so more spidered out then most phones....

[Phonesrfun]

The R terminal on the dial is not used for candlestick phones.  It is only used with handset phones, so it should be left blank.

If your hookswitch is made for sidetone, then you want to look at a 50 AL, rather than a 150AL diagram.  I believe your 20AL has a sidetone and not an antisidetone hookswitch in it.

Here is a link to the TCI library for the 50AL.  This looks like it is the same as your hookswitch.

I am interested to see a photo of the base of the phone.  Like Dennis said, even though your stick started out as a #20, it must have gotten a dial base somewhere along the way.

[oldphonelover]

Here is a pic hope this help's...

I think you forgot the link? for the wiring your talking about...

Thanks for the help to BTW!

[Wallphone]

A similar question came up about a month ago and I did some research on it and seem to recall that if you use a #4 or #5 dial on a candlestick then you have to jump two of the dial terminals, and one of them was the R terminal. I'll try to find that posting. And then again, it doesn't mean that I'm right, but that was the conclusion that I came to.
Doug Pav

[Wallphone]

Here is the other posting. < http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5278.msg65493#msg65493 >
I compared some wiring diagrams and came up with jumping R to BB and then wire it like a #2. Let me know if anyone sees it differently.
Doug Pav

[oldphonelover]

Great and thanks... look forward to seeing it

[Phonesrfun]

Here is the link to the 50AL on the TCI site.  Sorry for not posting the link

You can download the pdf and print.

By the way, there is an absolute WEALTH of information in the TCI library.


http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2118&Itemid=11

[oldphonelover]

OK maybe I am a newbie well admitted but I am so lost now...

I tired the plans I could find on TLC in fact went through them all 18 [most don't apply] but tried all that was close. here is the problem. first big one is on the shaft part [excuse not knowing the names of the parts] it shows on the plans a connection referring to "BB" but there is no BB on there just on the dial. It seems I keep ending up with a extra wire. So far I have come as close as a dial tone, able to get a call, once got one out, but can not get anything in voice out of the stick. just receiver.

So anyone up for a challenge and could be so could as to some how draw a plan or tell me where the wires go? from what to what.

I love this phone but it brings me back to windows95 and wanting to take a hammer to the screen...LOL But by god I am going to find a way to make this phone work. Please help and thanks for all the help so far.

I did try the jumper from the red to BB on the dial but I think somewhere I am missing a connection.

Thanks again guys and any help GREATLY NEEDED AND WANTED!!!!

smiles In Las Vegas
Ron

[Phonesrfun]

No problem being a newbie:

The link I sent (late) should be the one you need, which does not have a BB on the hookswitch pile-up that goes in the shaft part of the phone.

The problem with candlesticks is that these were not as standardized as later models.  They are quite able to be wired, but you either need to know intuitively which wires go where, or you need the proper wiring diagram.  I believe the one I noted is the correct one.  Here it is again:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2118&Itemid=11

By the way, the phone club where the diagram is located is Telephone Collectors International (TCI).  A great club to join if you are thinking of collecting more phones.

If you are really stuck, I can simply give you wire-by-wire and terminal-by-terminal connection instructions, but I will need to do that at night after work, since during the work day, the best I can do is reply to an occasional post here and there.

[Wallphone]

Ron, Maybe I missed it but what exactly are you using for a subset? Is it that wooden ringer box that you showed with your D1? If so, is there a network inside of it? Once we see what you are working with I'm sure someone here will get you pointed in the right direction.
Doug Pav

[oldphonelover]

No problem being a newbie:

The link I sent (late) should be the one you need, which does not have a BB on the hookswitch pile-up that goes in the shaft part of the phone.

The problem with candlesticks is that these were not as standardized as later models.  They are quite able to be wired, but you either need to know intuitively which wires go where, or you need the proper wiring diagram.  I believe the one I noted is the correct one.  Here it is again:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2118&Itemid=11

By the way, the phone club where the diagram is located is Telephone Collectors International (TCI).  A great club to join if you are thinking of collecting more phones.

If you are really stuck, I can simply give you wire-by-wire and terminal-by-terminal connection instructions, but I will need to do that at night after work, since during the work day, the best I can do is reply to an occasional post here and there.

Thanks so much for all your help... Now with this wire diagram two things I am lost on and I have tired this one as well. First the BB on the dial goes to BB where? the the end of the line just shows a arrow, it maybe the way I am reading/looking at it. On the bottom of the diagram it shows three wires just ending there BB, YY from triansmitter, and red from line? I'm confused as to where these hook up. Also should I still do a jumper from R to BB on dialer as suggested?
Also thanks so much for your help and yes I have used TLC alot it's a great site for wire maps...

[oldphonelover]

Ron, Maybe I missed it but what exactly are you using for a subset? Is it that wooden ringer box that you showed with your D1? If so, is there a network inside of it? Once we see what you are working with I'm sure someone here will get you pointed in the right direction.
Doug Pav

You noticed that huh! LOL OK here's the story on the oak ringers. I found two matching ringer box's which I thought was subsets on e-bay, got them really cheap and yes it was a good deal even now. I had two phones my candle and a desk phone in photo above that needs subset's. BUT!!! being a newbie LOL I didn't know what needed to be in the ringers to make the phones work. So after a fight with the wires discovered the boxs were only half there. So just when I was about to invest and spend another 60 or so on two more subsets that had what I need I was going through this site and reading different things and found this blog.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2849.msg39770#msg39770
I copied the map and took it to Radio Shack and sure enough they had all the parts and came home an in two minutes had a subest wired in the box with my old oak ringers. The desk phone works better then my new desk phone clear as a bell and sounds great!

So for the candle I got another set of parts from RS and wired the second box up and it seems and sounds like it is working too. So in stead of paying 60 or so each for a whole new ringer I paid about 6.00 for the two sets of parts and got to use my 25.00 oak ringer boxs.

I was really proud of myself on this project because I have never wired or built anything that took conductors and trains type thing before.... Small joy in the fun science world...

Smiles

[Phonesrfun]

Now that I'm looking more carefully at your earlier photo of the hookswitch, I see your hookswitch does not have a BB terminal.  On the diagram I referred to, the dial has a BB terminal and the hookswitch has a BB terminal.  The solid line with the arrow pointing down is not a wire, but it is part of the diagram indicating the switch contacts in the hookswitch mechanism.

I think I will need to just give you the directions without a diagram.  Can you do a close-up shot of a side view of the hookswitch pile?  The shot you have is only of the terminals at the base of the switch pile.  I need to see the side view to see how the leaves of the switch are configured.  I am sure it is a three-pole switch, but the photo would confirm that.  From there, I can give you some specific instructions that will have you running.

The cheater subset (parts from radio shack) will work well with a candlestick.