From time to time I get messages from members who know I collect old Bell System signs asking my opinion on a sign. I am far from an expert, but here are a few tips:
- Do not buy any signs from India or Argentina, they are realistic looking fakes with artificial aging, especially Lincoln Telephone Company signs.
- Do not buy any sign that has a price for phone calls on it (i.e. 5 cents)
- Check the size/proportions of the sign. Fake signs are usually the wrong size
- If it looks too new it
probably definitely is
- Flanged signs are usually ok (but not always) check the side of the flange that would face the wall, it should be either white or a sloppy mix of white and blue on 1908 pattern or earlier signs. It should not be uniformly blue on early (pre-1921 signs). It may be blue on 1921 signs and is usually blue on a 1939 pattern sign.
- Square one-sided signs are often fake (but not always). Check the back, it should be a uneven white glaze, often pitted, not neat or uniform.
- Early signs (08 and 21 bell and before) have raised lettering made by building up the enamel. Repros are either flat or have raised letters from stamping the tin.
- Always look at the back of a one-sided Bell System hubcap sign. For mid-century types, the back should have a 2-digit model number and/or a reddish smudge on white enamel. Earlier types have sloppy looking enamel.
- Flanged signs almost always have rust around the holes, although this is commonly faked
- Signs from affiliated Bell System companies are generally safe, although make sure it is made of steel and has a white back. Reproductions of Pennsylvania Bell and Ohio Bell signs are known to exist made of tin with green backs. They are marked as reproductions, but sometimes the seller does not notice this fact.
- Ande Rooney manufactured fake signs, they are marked with the company name on the back, but this can be removed.
- Signs from AAA sign company are reproductions
- Familiarize yourself with the fake signs offered by PHONECO, these are often sold as originals, often with artificial weathering
- Always check the seller's other auctions. If he has a number of similar signs, with similar weathering patterns, STAY AWAY!!!
I have started putting real and fake signs into "Collections" on eBay so people can get an idea of what's out there:
Signs that appear to be real into: http://www.ebay.com/cln/sargeguy/Real-Signs/143405697017 (http://www.ebay.com/cln/sargeguy/Real-Signs/143405697017)
And signs that look fake into: http://www.ebay.com/cln/sargeguy/Fake-Signs/143555386017[/ur] (http://www.ebay.com/cln/sargeguy/Fake-Signs/143555386017)
Before purchasing any phone sign it is a good idea to conult the variety of different signs available from PHONECO. Some common PHONECO reproduction signs found on eBay:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Rr6f8qaAwbI/VHvwfLPOzGI/AAAAAAAAbr4/PRGPEaudduY/w400-h264-no/801510437_tp.jpg)
A clumsy attempt at aging a PHONECO sign with acid:
Those dang hub-caps!!!
Hub cap style signs can be very confusing. Real examples have white backs and fakes have green or gray backs. Also note the bell hanger is slightly different. The top two are of a real hubcap and the bottom two are fakes:
More reproductions:
My daughter bought me this sign when she was 10, she is now 25. She saved her summer job money and got it for me. No one knows its a repro but me. She was soooo excited and proud of herself. It hangs proudly in my phone room....Doug
Don't let the $199 BIN fool you, this is another fake hubcap. Painting the back white is a nice touch but note that the screw grommets are placed at 12 and 6 o'clock. And look at the lettering in "Bell System", what a mess!!!
VINTAGE BELL SYSTEM PUBLIC TELEPHONE ROUND PORCELAIN SIGN (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BELL-SYSTEM-PUBLIC-TELEPHONE-ROUND-PORCELAIN-SIGN-8-7-8-DIAMETER-/191067016027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7c7b4b5b)
THIS IS A GREAT OLD SIGN. VERY NICE SHAPE FOR ITS AGE.NEEDS A LITTLE CLEANING. ZOOM IN ON THE PICTURES TO SEE CONDITION.
"PAY PHONE"?
So what's your take on this WU Telegram sign I bought?
Looks like a repro to me. :'( This is the sign they were knocking off, although I suspect this might be bogus despite the rust and chipped paint:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261408191000 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261408191000)
Quote from: Sargeguy on February 25, 2014, 07:01:14 PM
Looks like a repro to me. :'( This is the sign they were knocking off, although I suspect this might be bogus despite the rust and chipped paint:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261408191000 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261408191000)
I have seen three different examples of this sign.
1. was a definite repro, thin metal small corner holes
2. was heavy gauge metal with larger corner holes and better quality paint it seemed to be an earlier repro { possibly a later original sign but most likely repro.}
and sign #3 was about 8 or 10" square and was a very nice original porcelain sign.
This sign looks like #2, the damage to the metal and paint would appear different if it was #1.
I am interested in a porcelain example of this sign.
Jim
This guy has sold a couple of these.
I started putting signs that appear to be real into: http://www.ebay.com/cln/sargeguy/Real-Signs/143405697017
And signs that look fake into: http://www.ebay.com/cln/sargeguy/Fake-Signs/143555386017
Regarding the AT&T booth sign presently on ebay.
10-15 years ago we were at a picnic at a friends house. The daughter of another friend
knew I collected telephone signs. During the afternoon she came over to me and motioned for me to come to the side that she had something to show me that was in an empty field next
door. We took a walk over and found some of those signs half buried in the grass and dirt. As it turned someone from across the road had put them there to "age" before he brought them to a local antique shop. Never did find out where the guy got them since he was not to happy
that the young girl had found his "stash". He was a local politician and died a few years later. Never did see them for sale on the local scene so always wondered what happened to them. Also wondered how they found their way to Montana, of all places.
The wisest word in collecting is still "education". Whether its telephone signs or Barbie Dolls.
Cheers..... Ell
caveat emptorI am not accusing anyone of misrepresenting reproduction signs at the real thing however these two very similar auctions caught my eye. India is a notorious producer of convincing fake porcelain signs. The signs they produce are artificially aged and the backs are artificially rusted with chemicals or salt water. The authentic versions of this sign illustrated in Bob Alexanders
A Collector's Guide to Antique Porcelain Telephone Signs illustrates a version that has the two holes placed towards the middle top edge of the sign, as if hung on a bracket, not in the corners as depicted in these examples below. Also, is the rust orange or dark brown? Authentic rust is usually dark in color while more recent rust is more or a red/orange color.
eBay auction from Tampa for $825:
Antique Rare Original Railroad/Subway/Bus Column Pay Station Porcelain Sign (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Rare-Original-Railroad-Subway-Bus-Column-Pay-Station-Porcelain-Sign-/251635969867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a96ac2f4b)
QuoteAntique 1920-30s Original Railroad/Subway/Bus Pay Station Direction Sign. Heavy gauge metal porcelain in black and white. In good used condition, slightly bend - believe to be mounted on a large column. Does show wear and use, chips,rust and/or scratches. Please see photos closely, item in as found uncleaned! Super rare 18" by 5.5" smaller sign- but try to find another! An addition to any collection,thank you for looking and please see my other listings.
eBay auction from India for $79.99:
ORIGINAL OLD BEAUTIFUL PAYSTATION PORCELAIN ENAMEL SIGN 18 x 5 5 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-OLD-BEAUTIFUL-PAYSTATION-PORCELAIN-ENAMEL-SIGN-18-x-5-5-/251648751987?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a976f3973)
QuoteThis auction is about OLD PAYSTATION Porcelain Enamel Sign board. This sign was used to advertise the type brand outside a dealer's store. It has got four screw fitting holes. Very beautiful enamel sign board! Got wear & Tear around the cornors (Check the pics). Size is 18 x 5.5 Inches.Approximately. Please check the pics and buy. THANK YOU AND HAPPY BIDDING.
Here is the one from India for posterity:
Looks like someone else is looking to cash in on some of the $500 fake booth sign action.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271711071368 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/271711071368)
It looks like the first seller found another one ion that basement. In his previous auction he stated that he'd found two in that basement. Now he says it was three. Maybe they were stuck together with the wax paper.
The plot thickens-looks like a previous buyer, who paid full price, reneged. I thought all the previous auctions ended with a Best Offer. Don't you have to pay immediately in order to use the Buy-It-Now option?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281550297947 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281550297947)
Quote from: Sargeguy on February 13, 2014, 09:35:29 PM
Don't let the $199 BIN fool you, this is another fake hubcap. Painting the back white is a nice touch but note that the screw grommets are placed at 12 and 6 o'clock. And look at the lettering in "Bell System", what a mess!!!
VINTAGE BELL SYSTEM PUBLIC TELEPHONE ROUND PORCELAIN SIGN (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BELL-SYSTEM-PUBLIC-TELEPHONE-ROUND-PORCELAIN-SIGN-8-7-8-DIAMETER-/191067016027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7c7b4b5b)
THIS IS A GREAT OLD SIGN. VERY NICE SHAPE FOR ITS AGE.NEEDS A LITTLE CLEANING. ZOOM IN ON THE PICTURES TO SEE CONDITION.
Seems to have made it's way over to Proxibid (http://tinyurl.com/nqusu85), but at least they say it's a repro:
Here is an older PHONECO reproduction that the seller does not actually claim is real, note how the outside flange, the part that rests against the wall is a nice uniform blue. In a real sign this will be either white or a sloppy mixture of white and blue.
Really good thread Sarge
Top notch!
I wonder if he was trying to make a fake market for the signs?
I think he just bought a repro sign and marketed it as a Bell sign. Even though he made it sound like an original, he didn't clearly state anywhere whether it was original or repro, so someone can't complain that the seller was false advertising.
Another common fake.
This one is a tin sign but there is a porcelain fake also.
Fantasy fake. Tin sign.
I really enjoy this. :)
I hope they never get too good at making fakes....
I would think people would be more self aware of buying a replica.
Send the seller a PM or something!
Here is a little refrigerator magnet that I actually like quite a bit.
Please don't tell me it's fake!
LOL.
Quote from: unbeldi on February 23, 2015, 05:43:50 PM
Here is a little refrigerator magnet that I actually like quite a bit.
Please don't tell me it's fake!
LOL.
If it doesn't fall off the refrigerator, then it's not a fake magnet ;-)
Jim
If it's rusty it must be real, right? Fake rust and ambiguous description:
QuotePUBLIC TELEPHONE BELL SYSTEM 9" PORCELAIN SIGN. GREAT RENDITION OF A AGED SIGN. WILL BLEND IN EXCELLENT WITH ANY COLLECTION OR AS RUSTIC WALL ART. SIGN IS BEING SOLD AS-IS WITH CHIPS FADING AND RUST TO THE PORCELAIN FINISH.
Quote from: unbeldi on February 23, 2015, 05:43:50 PM
Here is a little refrigerator magnet that I actually like quite a bit.
Please don't tell me it's fake!
LOL.
Of course it's a fake. They didn't have refrigerators back then, only iceboxes.
Seriously??? I hope the Best Offer was $10 or less!
Another fake with rust applied:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEPHONE-PAY-STATION-PORCELAIN-SIGN-LOCAL-LONG-DISTANCE-/181826269472?hash=item2a55b0b120 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TELEPHONE-PAY-STATION-PORCELAIN-SIGN-LOCAL-LONG-DISTANCE-/181826269472?hash=item2a55b0b120)
All fakes (in my opinion) except the NY Tel and Southern Cal Badge. Notice there are no pictures of the back?
http://tinyurl.com/ncvgx4j
Yes there are some from India or Argentina that are pretty good, and ussually have a BIN of $500 or so. I have not seen any of those for a while though.
4.5 inches.
I haven't seen these before. Made of aluminum and the edges are wrong.
The well known 8x8 repro with a new twist. On a bracket.
A clever fake from Argentina that had me fooled for a couple of minutes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321923160557 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/321923160557)
The aging is nicely done but the rust on the back is a giveaway. There should also be some porcelain on the back that was rusted through.
Surprised! Seller is not accepting messages. I was going to tell hin:
Es una falsificación! I don't think you need a translation on that. ;)
Yes, the first red flag on this is the seller location of "Argentina" then once you take a closer look you realize why it is fake. Another red flag on an old porcelain sign is a seller location in India.
The item has sold. Looks like someone is the proud owner of a quality reproduction. I'm just glad they don't make NET&T signs, I probably would have hit the BIN before looking at all the pictures.
I'll probably be the first to admit that I wouldn't be that disappointed if I accidentally bought a quality repro sign. It may not be original, but it looks real, and not being a sign collector gives me the advantage of getting a decent-looking reproduction for cheap without humiliating myself! ::)
I just wish someone made a repro Wisconsin Telephone sign, I'd snatch it up (at a low price of course)!
You don't want to spend $200 on one though!
Set the fake sign on fire to give it an air of authenticity?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-lincoln-Telephone-tin-sign-/141867176758?hash=item2107f15336:g:hEoAAOSwLN5WiDkz (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-lincoln-Telephone-tin-sign-/141867176758?hash=item2107f15336:g:hEoAAOSwLN5WiDkz)
This is a new one I haven't seen before but easily recognizable as a fake.
Quote from: Sargeguy on January 03, 2015, 12:20:58 AM
The plot thickens-looks like a previous buyer, who paid full price, reneged. I thought all the previous auctions ended with a Best Offer. Don't you have to pay immediately in order to use the Buy-It-Now option?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281550297947 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281550297947)
No you DON'T have to pay instantly on a BIN.
eBay takes you to the Pay for it Now page on a BIN but if you bail out at that point you have still bought it and eBay is waiting for you to pay for it. I have done this a couple of times now. I cant specifically recall why I initially bailed out of paying the first time I did that but more recently I asked the seller a question to clarify something before doing the BIN but my question wasn't quickly answered. Not wanting to lose the deal to someone else I "Bought it Now" but didn't pay until my question was answered. In this particular example I checked and the item was no longer listed for someone else to grab.
Terry
Seller has option of requiring immediate payment for BINs. Buyer is advised that until payment is made, another person can buy the item. And yes, I have missed out on items i had already "bought it now" because i didn't pay right away.
That is a weird one.
Doctored repro-look at the other auctions: Bell public telephone lubester pump plate porcelain gas oil sign (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bell-public-telephone-lubester-pump-plate-porcelain-gas-oil-sign-/331763775960?hash=item4d3ea979d8:g:6YMAAOSwpzdWqAn0)
Here is another fake Lincoln Telephone sign from Argentina. It is a good example of faked rust:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331777501465 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/331777501465)
My first reaction is the application of the "too new to be true" rule, although there appears to be some wear at 8 o'clock. There's no pic of the reverse side.
Quote from: Brinybay on February 18, 2016, 12:06:41 PM
My first reaction is the application of the "too new to be true" rule, although there appears to be some wear at 8 o'clock. There's no pic of the reverse side.
There appears to be depth of the lettering in the wording "Bell System" which may indicate a original '21 Bell sign. If there was a picture of the flange that would help.
Quote from: Jim S. on February 25, 2014, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: Sargeguy on February 25, 2014, 07:01:14 PM
Looks like a repro to me. :'( This is the sign they were knocking off, although I suspect this might be bogus despite the rust and chipped paint:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261408191000 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261408191000)
I have seen three different examples of this sign.
1. was a definite repro, thin metal small corner holes
2. was heavy gauge metal with larger corner holes and better quality paint it seemed to be an earlier repro { possibly a later original sign but most likely repro.}
and sign #3 was about 8 or 10" square and was a very nice original porcelain sign.
This sign looks like #2, the damage to the metal and paint would appear different if it was #1.
I am interested in a porcelain example of this sign.
Jim
So any original sign like this would be porcelain?
That one looks like it could have been one that was painted on. Probably on wood and maybe on brick buildings.
So any original sign like this would be porcelain?
It is the concenous of most sign collectors that the original candlestick "telephone you telegraphs ..." signs were porcelain. This sign has been reproduced for a long time.
Quote from: HarrySmith on February 18, 2016, 09:20:23 PM
That one looks like it could have been one that was painted on. Probably on wood and maybe on brick buildings.
That one's a repro, they even say so, I only used it as an illustration. I'm looking for an authentic Western Union sign that says to telephone your telegrams. I've seen 4 different types. It's to go with the metal 302 I have that has a Western Union dial card. Besides that one, the other 3 I've seen are these:
Repro or authentic?
Authentic, worth about $75 give or take.
I have a spare 1 of these that i would be willing to sell. PM if interested.
Jim S.
I especially like the pattern on the back, it reminds me of my patio table
Quote from: Sargeguy on March 22, 2016, 05:23:40 PM
I especially like the pattern on the back, it reminds me of my patio table
I saw this the other day on eBay. But missed that they replaced the original wording MOUNTAIN STATES TELEPHONE & TELEGRAPE with the American T&T name.
This is a new one for me:
No rust or gun shot holes.....just a coffee stain......
Terry
I don't know signs very well, but I would still be suspicious a telephone sign that has the word "telephone" four times....... ;)
Quote from: RotarDad on April 09, 2016, 10:21:07 PM
I don't know signs very well, but I would still be suspicious a telephone sign that has the word "telephone" four times....... ;)
This repo is a copy of a real sign.
Not telephone but hopefully telegraph is close enough. The sign is dated 1986 at bottom and the seller says he doesn't know if it's real or not. Haven't seen this ones before.
http://tinyurl.com/zxqj7cb
Here is a classic example of a fake hubcap. It has the wrong location of the holes (12 and 6 o'clock rather than 9 and 3 o'clock). It is the wrong size (9 inches instead of &) and has faked new rust (orange instead of dark brown). Looking at the other items he has for sale and you see similar fake signs for gas and oil.
Also keep in mind that a genuine hubcap in mint condition sells for around $50-75.
Quote from: Doug Rose on September 11, 2013, 07:14:17 PM
My daughter bought me this sign when she was 10, she is now 25. She saved her summer job money and got it for me. No one knows its a repro but me. She was soooo excited and proud of herself. It hangs proudly in my phone room....Doug
Doug;
If you had an original also, I bet that one your daughter bought would still be your favorite.
Nothing wrong with displaying a repro.
JMHO.
D/P
Dan....you are correct! It is my Favorite....Doug
Here is a repro sign being sold as original that has netted a few unsuspecting bidders-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252399965721? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/252399965721?)
If you have any doubts look at his other signage for sale
Quote from: Sargeguy on May 25, 2016, 09:21:57 PM
Here is a repro sign being sold as original that has netted a few unsuspecting bidders-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252399965721? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/252399965721?)
If you have any doubts look at his other signage for sale
Up to $68 with several bidders. I wonder how many are shills? Years ago you could contact the bidders and warn them but now eBay doesn't allow that kind of contact.
If it were real, after this long would it have really mattered if it were currently being stored in a smoke free environment?
It is up to $112.50 now!
Quote from: 19and41 on May 27, 2016, 02:07:35 PM
If it were real, after this long would it have really mattered if it were currently being stored in a smoke free environment?
Someone is going to get "smoked" either way.
VINTAGE AMERICAN TELEPHONE & TELEGRAPH CO. PORCELAIN SIGN........2-SIDED SIGN (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-AMERICAN-TELEPHONE-TELEGRAPH-CO-PORCELAIN-SIGN-2-SIDED-SIGN-/262508419105?hash=item3d1eb89821:g:CvgAAOSweWVXd~H1)
The fact that the sign has been hanging in your man cave since 1991 is not necessarily an indicator of its authenticity. He does have a few real signs for sale, which is probably confusing the bidders.
The seller is using the same photo that you have on eBay in their fake sign section:
http://www.ebay.com/cln/sargeguy/fake-signs/143555386017
Looks like the seller has re-listed it as a possible reproduction, changing the description to read:
"EBAY HAS PUT THIS SIGN ON THEIR REPRODUCTION ...[FAKE]... LIST.........YOU BE THE JUDGE........PLEASE BID ACCORDINGLY."
That's the flake that popped the cereal box.
Quote from: Sargeguy on July 08, 2016, 12:12:41 PM
Looks like the seller has re-listed it as a possible reproduction, changing the description to read:
"EBAY HAS PUT THIS SIGN ON THEIR REPRODUCTION ...[FAKE]... LIST.........YOU BE THE JUDGE........PLEASE BID ACCORDINGLY."
I had contacted him about the sign and pointed out it was listed on eBay's fake page.
Here's a new fake. Complete with rust/discoloration at no extra charge. This fake is based on the pictured Southwestern Bell sign.
On eBay: http://tinyurl.com/hh7slyg
"Vintaged". There's a new verb I've not seen before.
More fraud, this time the dates of manufacture on these old signs were obscured. Someone paid $122.50 for a rusty version of a sign they could have purchased for $39.95.
Buyer beware of seller "neverenoughchevys"
It's fortunate that you care enough to advise people of such goings on. It looks like one could be taken in in short order through such deception.
More fakery:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131954104613 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/131954104613)
The dimensions are incorrect-should be 20" not 18"
Once again a look at oldjunque74's other items raises some red flags
neverenoughchevys is at it again:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282215328985? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/282215328985?)
That is sad. Such shenanigans damage the entire market.
I wouldn't mind if repro signs at least looked new, but there's no doubt the manufacturers are trying to create forgeries, mimicking the age/rust/damage of real signs exactly.
I've always thought that companies made the reproduction signs looking new and some people bought them to age them and make them rusty so they could make money selling "original" signs.
The manufacturer of the sign clearly indicates the date of manufacture, which the seller had obscured with fake rust
I guess signage is one of those areas I will avoid. I'm sure that a practiced individual could detect forgeries, but I reckon it is a carefully acquired skill.
New fake?
http://tinyurl.com/ljzujt7
Quote from: Fabius on March 23, 2017, 08:20:58 PM
New fake?
http://tinyurl.com/ljzujt7
I guess it depends on if that is pre-1969 plastic or not.
JMO,
Jim S.
While I am far from a sign expert i do see issues.
First is the green color, I'm interested in hearing if anyone has seen a green sign before.
Next it is the word TELEPHONE, I see the TELE is straight and not curved like in other signs. The PH is tilted and ONE is again straight.
I would pass on the sign.
Oughta be worth 50 bucks. See if they'll take a couple of 25's for it. ;D
By "new fake" I meant that it was new to the market. There's no doubt (in my mind) that it is a fake. I would think only of interest as a decor piece.
In reference to these "fake" signs. If they were reasonable in price, more aligned with other automobile related fake signage like you can find on the shelf in Hobby lobby, I would purchase one for display. It seems to me the sellers of these signs start them high to give them the appearance of original signage. I can buy the same "Shell Oil" repo sign for $5. I even asked in Hobby Lobby why they don't carry phone related reproduction signs.
I would love to be able to afford to collect authentic phone signs but I can't. Reasonably priced fake signs would be nice to have to enhance telephone displays for those of us that don't have the budget for the real thing.
Plenty of these signs are low priced and can be find listed as reproductions. Unfortunately many of these are mistaken for real signs by people who buy them at yard sales and thrift stores. Other sellers deliberately mislead by artificially rusting items and obscuring marks that identify them as repros. As I stated before, "Bell System" hubcaps can be had fairly cheaply if you are patient and educate yourself on what to look for.
I'm curious about a sign here for sale at $125. To my eye there is no way to tell it's age nor origin. Is it an old sign or a repro?
That appears original.
I have seen that referred to as the "1964" bell. Not a popular subject for fakers, usually sells for around $75
Thanks for the info. I doubt If I will take up signs as collectibles, but the ones I see on this site are nice to look at.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/avsfixVP90BLLtx0CytEFUenSkX_S07FF0WxpprY1tBBPNYq1WyHoTmyFz2-zpxeYFpjzy8qvS9KHHH2gJ6tGGS8QxXearMxyfS2tURGbjzOlahojsvreyLcTdugKlBbtjMSgYyEfFyG68FFtRfq-ScxvGWHJszVnrPs9atGXfcrOE8ygPGzTZ1GbBiJ8xZYiSGyO5RgsluoSlqX1C4FzqU2WiAQV1KpxKZPSEM9ART3jDJnQY__ztPNTQBlEt184JRIS1znobC5jpJLCex7m5OO6G3xtzaAJ5XALwT3CSrLK1-0VWSGedHdtcD5oeMnMIfJkbJ9Ic74mCFACOytxcSGsLuIpPxxdFWR9VvvZlP8le4P9PMEzXAYTngetvkJIMSwY3mmqEsBu4R-hlkSCphnt7TXfDSsxEGtl8cgWXY0srETqcSTcBDkA4EpJ_0hwRD0EIV1SduXl6qnJE4jAVNjEIXrYVuRS23ojqfTFPHTwpGn5ajAhBZa4mYCmshZodUFXKZBYBppA7UxjrYFPlIeTQzGPI_C7nd6Qzq0GneAy8YCCwr7eIbbJ_D1nyGr8HZ6SfJnlKV5Wc-AaIXaEoiHqL1aotQUqPL9-dWOu1CI3MeTTr6tvA=w690-h923-no)
Pacific Telephone & Telegraph fake, very well made buit the dimensions are off and the lettering is fishy.
::)
Quote from: Sargeguy on May 12, 2017, 01:28:33 PM
Pacific Telephone & Telegraph fake, very well made buit the dimensions are off and the lettering is fishy.
One of the most dangerous fakes out there.
This fake is a variant of the Southwestern sign posted in this thread.
Judging by the other examples of real and surreal signage, If I were to guess. I'd suspect it because of the grommets in the corner holes and the intricacy and amount of lettering surrounding the Bell logo. Am I doing any better?
Has anyone ever heard of Northwestern Bell Telephone Company? Did such a company even exist?
It is all wrong in my opinion. The rust only around the outer edge, the lettering, the bell and the grommets.
Quote from: andre_janew on November 22, 2017, 04:13:58 PM
Has anyone ever heard of Northwestern Bell Telephone Company? Did such a company even exist?
Yes, they were a real Bell System company, serving the upper mid-west. Their signs are usually hard to find. Probably due to the lower population of the service area?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_Bell
Seller says there were 25 of these made. A few things show that it is a reproduction so hopefully collectors in the future will be able to spot it as a repro. Problems with the sign are: The item description indicates it's a repro. The seller has a few other repro signs listed.
Black back
Grommets too big in relation to the sign
Grommet covers letter on the right side
The dark blue color seems too light
In the picture where the sign is being held at an angle the lack of quality seems apparent.
At least the item description indicates, indirectly, it's a repro. The seller has a few other repro signs listed.
Here's a real 8" Bell of Pennsylvania hub cap.
It is surprisingly easy to make reproduction signs. I had made a few years back for my gas station display. Screen stencils are used to deposit enamel over the base coat. Most signs were sprayed on and have that "orange peel" look to them. I prefer making a repro over some rusted out original. Large signs require a kiln much too large for the home hobbyist.
More fakes seen on Esty.
Interesting how the entire surface of the bottom one is blemished, except for the bell.
Quote from: 19and41 on February 14, 2018, 01:07:58 PM
Interesting how the entire surface of the bottom one is blemished, except for the bell.
...along with the white outlines of the silkscreened letters and lines! ::)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/162899486446 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/162899486446)
The Argentinian faker is still in business!!! Looks like he's lowered the price and now offers FREE SHIPPING!
caveat emptor https://www.ebay.com/itm/183121398007 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/183121398007)The description is a real confidence builder:
QuotePORCELAIN ENAMEL SIGN TELEPHONE PAY STATION 24X5" SINGLE SIDED
Sold On As Is Basis. Age, History, Not Known, Bought from Antique Sign Collectors. Nicely Washed And Cleaned
Not Touched/ Painted.
Weight 1kg/ 1.76lbs Approx.
Collectibles /Antiques Not Returnable.
Please Ask For More Photos If Required
We Ship Within 2 Days Of Receiving Full Payment. Mostly We Ship Through Fedex or DHL And Provide Tracking Number. All Signs Are Professionally Packed.
Since These Are Used Items And Sold on offers, There Are NO REFUNDS Or RETURN Offered. It Is Like Real Time selling. You Ask Questions, Photos, Before Bidding And Do All Surveys.
We Sell All These On " As Is Where" Basis Since Age, History, Origin Are Not Known To Us.
Once You offer And Pay - The Item Is Yours.
Free shipping to USA and CANADA
If your from other than USA or CANADA please ask for Quotation for shipping
Please contact us If you want us to reduce the price on Invoicing as it will save you from Custom Duty.
We are not responsible for Custom Clearance or activities involving any Government agencies.
Buyer will pay the return shipping fee
Thank you
Taking a look at the sellers other items, it seems like he sells a lot of signs of "unknown origin" that all have very similar artificial aging. Hmmm.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183129757082? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/183129757082?)And of course one has to wonder how a Lincoln Telephone sign wound up in Mumbai
oops!!! :o
Doh!
A couple of new signs that have popped up on eBay lately:
These are from a huckster who sells other obvious reproductions. Always check what else is for sale if you have any doubts. "OIL" and "GAS" in the title are usually giveaways that seller is peddling rusty Ande Rooney signs.
Here is his latest:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173501274841? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/173501274841?) ( dead link 03-14-21 )The seller is really committed to his fraud-no vague disclaimers about authenticity here:
QuotePorcelain sign measures 8 by 10 and is made of heavy gauge steel. Bought the sign in a auction in chicago was told by owner the sign hung in one of the old jails there in town years ago. Either way neat little sign and good luck bidding
Of course it is fake, telegrams?
Fake but AT&T was American Telephone and Telegraph co
Yes telegraph not telegrams as shown in the "illinois bell" sign!
Do you mean the "Illinois Telephone Bell Company" sign?
Thats the one!
Here is a fake M & M Telephone sign that has been popping up. Indian fake. Paul V had a flange from this company in his collection which was sold on eBay after his passing a few years ago. That could be where they got the idea from.
Fakes that make you go hmmm.....
What were they thinking.... LOL