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"Rare" pekin red 302 from 1940

Started by McHeath, June 26, 2010, 11:05:47 AM

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McHeath

So what are the thoughts of the group about this phone?  Was WE really making red plastic 302s in 1940 as the handset date seems to indicate?  It does seem to have some odd features as well, but I don't have any firsthand experience with colored 302s to know.

http://tinyurl.com/288z4w4



Dennis Markham

#1
I have to say that I don't recall ever seeing one as early as 1940 (colored 302).  That doesn't mean there isn't one.  It sure looks good.  The seller is or was at one time a member of both phone clubs according to the "Ebay Handles List" that Terry published.  My copy being from 2008.

The plungers are black which is odd.

I've seen the switch hooks with the metal lift attached, in black before.  It would make sense that a very model would have one painted.  Later the "lifts" were made of plastic.  

It would be interesting to see the date on the 5J dial.  I don't know the progression of those dials.  I have an earlier 4J dial that is from 1937, so perhaps the 5J came out soon afterward.

I have not had much experience with color 302's.  My Old Rose 302 is from 1953.  If original/real---Rare indeed.

P.S.

Paul's site does mention in 1937 only, two colors:  Yale Blue, Medium Brown.    But we all know the books are still being written, based upon Dan's model 500.

http://www.paul-f.com/color.htm#WEcolors

JorgeAmely

Dennis, McH;

Mmm, there seems to be some over-spray in this photo. Could be a Polane job.

Jorge

Dan/Panther

We do know that they made Clear 302's for the worlds fair, this may be a working prototype for the colored models.
Everything I see seems to point to early 302 design. The lettering on the handset is old script ( see photo ).
I requested a long shot of the entire underside of the phones shell.
Also note several cracks to the shell.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

Jester

Quote from: JorgeAmely on June 26, 2010, 11:56:21 AM
Dennis, McH;

Mmm, there seems to be some over-spray in this photo. Could be a Polane job.



The seller mentions in the auction that this phone uses the early metal lift cover and that it is painted to match the plastic cover.  Also, notice that the handset is a solid casting--another indication of the time period.
Stephen

Jim Stettler

They did make early colored 302's. I posted some info with some of the differences.(in an earlier thread)
Bsp's refer to these as pre-war sets.

Something I recall about the early sets were that the plungers matched the housings.

My info on early colored 302's came from Jon Kolger who has been collecting colorored sets for decades,
Jim

I copied the early 302 info:
Re: Pictures of My Telephone Collection
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2010, 11:33:51 PM »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In January I was corresponding with Jon Kolger about early 302's.
The following is a compilation of his e-mails on the subject:
________________________________________
Hi Jim,

Yes the handsets were completely solid.  I don't remember if the handsets
and caps were grooved... I don't have one in front of me to check it out.
All my examples are in storage.

There were other differences as well:  The handset cap threads were
different than the latter versions; the plastic used to make it was
different, much more opaque and not so translucent;  The hookswitch buttons
were the same color as the phone; the little finger cup piece underneath the
hookswitch was made of metal painted the same color as the phone; and the
dial, if it had one, had a completely different style of fingerwheel (much
thicker) and method of mounting it to the dial.  Also, the dial card had to
be inserted inside the fingerwheel AFTER the fingerwheel was attached.

I'm still looking for a blue example of these early 302s.  I have all the
other colors.

I just looked at a green 302 dated 1941 and it has a solid handset with no
grooves on the handle or caps.  I can't say definitively that they were all
this way, but I would say it is very likely.  I hope this helps...

The sets with the colored plungers were NOT the smaller plungers, just the
regular size plungers of the latter 302.  The dials were 5J with the white
painted housings.  I'm not sure when they started to make these early
colored sets.... Most of mine have a 1941 date, but I seem to recall having
one dated 1939.  I'm pretty sure I have a NOS 5J dial somewhere dated 1937.
I'm also not sure when when they started to make 302s again.  Dave Johnson
just stated 1945 on the listserv.  I don't know when they started to make
the colored sets... I've never paid that much attention to the dates on
mine... Probably early 50s.

Jon
________________________________________
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

McHeath

Great info Jim.  I know very little about 302s and had no idea that they were molding them in plastic colors before the war.  Fascinating that this set the pattern for WE type sets until the end of rotary phone production by Cortelco in 2006, color molded body, color matching handset cord, clear fingerwheel.  Nor did I know that plastic development was that advanced before the war, I will have to read up on it. 

Dan/Panther

I requested a photo of the inside of the phone.
Here it is.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

McHeath

You crack me up!

Okay, lame joke.

Hmm, do the cracks pull from the value?  That's a lot of them.

HarrySmith

If I was buying it the cracks would be a big factor in the value, "I am not paying you top dollar for a cracked phone"!
If I was selling it they do not show on the outside so, out of sight, out of mind, it still displays as well as a new one!
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Doug Rose

Pictures are no very user friendly to see the cracks from the outside. I do believe this is the real deal, I also do not think the 12 pictures are the best representation of the phone. Looks like a repair on the inside, I'd want to see the display outside....just my opinion.....Doug
Kidphone

Dan/Panther

Personally, the phone is rare, I think the photos are very strategic in nature to hide the flaws. I don't think I would pay what it will eventually go for.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

Dennis Markham

Normally I would say that cracks would be something I would avoid buying on a phone that is common.  But an original colored 302 from 1940 even with cracks would be a rare phone to own.....not that I'm planning on being the owner of this one.  To rephrase---a rare phone with cracks is better than no rare phone....until a nicer one comes along.

I have communicated with this seller in the past on an unrelated item.  He seems very knowledgeable and was extremely friendly during our email exchanges.

Dan/Panther


The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

Jim Stettler

Quote from: Dennis Markham on June 27, 2010, 10:24:17 PM
  To rephrase---a rare phone with cracks is better than no rare phone....until a nicer one comes along.


" The best example that I currently have in my collection"



Some of my clear phones are pretty rough. But any clear phone is hard to find and a pristine one is even harder.

JMO,

Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.