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Making a WE551A Functional - Work In Progress

Started by ramegoom, August 03, 2017, 10:44:42 PM

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ramegoom

As a beginner, I now just realized the STA refers to the phone itself...see? Learning from the ground up.

I don't have a land line in my home, cancelled those years ago. I am guessing I can convert a cell phone to a land line, or maybe one of those "Magic Jacks" to a wired-in line that I could use. Otherwise, I would settle for peer-to-peer which would enable separate phones to connect through the switchboard. I have this giant game room, and want to put a few phones in it, being able to intercom to one-another and also be controlled thru the switch board.

But I also want the switchboard to light up virtually all the lights with a separate controller that I will design. This is for display purposes only, to make the switchboard do something interesting, but not necessarily natural...simply to dazzle the onlooker.

So, I'm not sure if I can have both features going simultaneously. Hoping I can access all of the light circuits thru the 50 pair cable, that would cover the lighting feature. Now, to add a few separate phone extensions, I would like that to function normally as well. I will be in search for phones, maybe an old pay phone I can put next to the bar, and so on.

Beginner beginning. I appreciate you all being patient with me as a newbie. Gotta learn step by step.

Fabius

Quote from: ramegoom on August 07, 2017, 10:34:54 AM


I don't have a land line in my home, cancelled those years ago. I am guessing I can convert a cell phone to a land line, or maybe one of those "Magic Jacks" to a wired-in line that I could use.

Magic Jack does not accept dial pulse. I use a Panasonic KX-T61610 which accepts dial pulse. The Magic Jack VOIP lines serve as the CO lines to and from the Panasonic.
Tom Vaughn
La Porte, Indiana
ATCA Past President
ATCA #765
C*NET 1+ 821-9905

Alex G. Bell

Quote from: ramegoom on August 07, 2017, 10:34:54 AM
As a beginner, I now just realized the STA refers to the phone itself...see? Learning from the ground up.

I don't have a land line in my home, cancelled those years ago. I am guessing I can convert a cell phone to a land line, or maybe one of those "Magic Jacks" to a wired-in line that I could use.

...
Beginner beginning. I appreciate you all being patient with me as a newbie. Gotta learn step by step.
I'm quite sure I stated multiple times that STA L referred to the telephone sets.  Even if you missed that, you know there are 30 extension jack and lamp pairs with single or two digit numbers and 30 pairs labeled "STA L" so what could they possibly be?

No need to guess.  I definitely also stated that you could use a blue Tooth adapter with a cell phone to emulate a land line.

It should be easy to learn step-by-step simply by reading and absorbing what's been stated in black and white.

ramegoom

Ha! That's always been my problem...absorbing. Sometimes I gotta have it hammered in my head to "get" it. Don't mean to press your patience, but I'm just a slow learner....

Anyway, I'm starting to get it. I realize I gotta read and re-read, then it sinks in. Story of my life!

Thanks, though for the clarification. None of this comes obvious to me. All I ever knew about a telephone is that you make calls with it. And answer it. Now I am learning the basics, and go from there. I'm into electronic design, and if it were chips and circuits, I'd be all over it, but this wired stuff - whew! Need to be a good listener here.

Eventually, if I can't find a tutorial or something along those lines, I'll probe the wires with an ohmmeter and figure it out the long way. I still have no explanation about the multiple relays inside the thing, and whether or not they will affect my goal to get to the lamps. It would be great if someone could tell me what correlation the relay banks have on the rest of the system, but I'm thinking that's pretty deep and it'd be better if I find written info to get to that.

I appreciate whatever help you guys can send this way, and apologize for the repeat questions. You got my attention.

TelePlay

Quote from: ramegoom on August 07, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
Eventually, if I can't find a tutorial or something along those lines, I'll probe the wires with an ohmmeter and figure it out the long way. I still have no explanation about the multiple relays inside the thing, and whether or not they will affect my goal to get to the lamps. It would be great if someone could tell me what correlation the relay banks have on the rest of the system, but I'm thinking that's pretty deep and it'd be better if I find written info to get to that.

I appreciate whatever help you guys can send this way, and apologize for the repeat questions. You got my attention.

So much has been said many times and certainly not at the beginner level. I can't do it but it would be helpful, I think, if someone could summarize this in a Tech 101 reply telling you what part or item to specifically look for to power the board, which specific Blue Tooth adapter would work best at a company (land line) connection to the real world and which specific terminals to attach the line cord from phone #1, phone #2 and your pay phone (#3).

Seems you need at least

1) a power supply,
2) a ring generator,
3) a blue tooth adapter
4) a cell phone
5) at least two phones, or 3 or 4, etc.,
6) line cord and/or station wire and
7) some help on how to use the board from the front panel when powered up

to work this board the way you wanted to, the way it was built to work, without understanding every detailed aspect of the board.

Once it works, you would have all the time in the world to learn every aspect of the board.

This is the fourth page of this topic and for someone who just wants to get this board working as it was designed to work, there has to be a faster, less technical way than 4 pages to help you get it working.

Alex G. Bell

It sounds like you need to copy and paste the replies into a doc. which is organized in a way so you can use it for reference.  A hardcopy of that doc. may be more easily used.

Probing with an ohmeter will probably be nothing but a huge waste of time because different circuit nodes have zero ohm resistance between them due to interconnections via normally closed contacts on relays and key switches.

As for all the relays: there is an identical set of relays, inductors, capacitors, two plugs, two lamps on the keyshelf, a TALK and a RING lever key switch for each cord circuit.  The cord circuit relays, capacitors and inductors are mounted on the gate with the identical component for each of the cord circuits across each plate.  So each cord circuit is a column of components.

In addition to this there is a single attendant's (a PBX operator) telephone and dial circuit and a buzzer circuit to alert her of the need to take action.

It's not really that complex: a lot of replication because there are 30 STAtions Line circuits (for phones), 10 CO trunk circuits and 10(?) cord circuits for interconnecting STAs and TRKs as and when required to complete calls.

Even if you had the SD to study, it would not show 30 replications of the STA L circuit, 10 of the CO trunk and 10 of the CORD ckts.  You have to start off understanding the fundamental structure or the way it's organized to understand the SD and how it works.

Quote from: ramegoom on August 07, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
Ha! That's always been my problem...absorbing. Sometimes I gotta have it hammered in my head to "get" it. Don't mean to press your patience, but I'm just a slow learner....

Anyway, I'm starting to get it. I realize I gotta read and re-read, then it sinks in. Story of my life!

...

Eventually, if I can't find a tutorial or something along those lines, I'll probe the wires with an ohmmeter and figure it out the long way. I still have no explanation about the multiple relays inside the thing, and whether or not they will affect my goal to get to the lamps. It would be great if someone could tell me what correlation the relay banks have on the rest of the system, but I'm thinking that's pretty deep and it'd be better if I find written info to get to that.

I appreciate whatever help you guys can send this way, and apologize for the repeat questions. You got my attention.

Victor Laszlo

#51
I realize that you want it to light up and impress people, but why?  It's a specialized piece of communications equipment, and it's historic, and it's designed to do certain things that make sense when explained to a viewer.

Trying to deduce what the external and internal parts do, and how they are wired, is an uphill grind if you don't have the faintest idea of WHY the board exists and WHY the parts operate as they do.   

You seem to want to invite guests into your man cave and demonstrate your new-found realm of knowledge and show them how to be an "operator" using several other phones in the cave for whatever purpose you you desire, making calls between them or even to an outside phone. Correct?

ramegoom

I guess you'd need to see my game room to understand. It's loaded with oddball gadgets and several antiques plus pinball machines, arcade games, bowling machines and several Bally slot machines. On the antique side, I have a 1911 brass cash register that I restored, and a Columbia Grafonola that actually works, several 1930's one-arm-bandit slot machines, plus several 60's motion beer signs, a shaking "Mr. Zappy" and even a key cutting machine. All oddball stuff. If I can get this switch board going, I'll use it to tie in a few phones intercom-style (my grandkids will enjoy that part) but it doesn't necessarily need to tie into the outside world. And, if I can make the lights flash out of the ordinary, it would just add to the intrigue. It has to do something.

I saw a video on youtube that explains how the system works in a very easy to understand fashion. In fact, I contacted the person who posted that video and asked him to take a picture of the key because mine didn't have one. He was nice enough to send me a pic of his key, I made a temporary key out of aluminum so I could get it open, then finally made a permanent key out of a vintage cast iron blank, once I took the lock apart. Anyway, that video explains it and so I figured I'd get mine to work similarly with a few phones (his video had two phones) and could explain how an operator connects the phone. I guess I'd need an outside line after all.

So when I'm not in the "explaining" mood, I'd like it to flash the panel lamps possibly randomly, just sort of an attraction. This might not be easily done, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I still need someone to tell me where the power supply hooks up. I can't find this in the schematic, and once I get the 24v to the system and add a couple of phones, it just might work the way it's supposed to. At least I can experiment with it. But there is an obvious learning curve that needs to be addressed.

Alex G. Bell

#53
Quote from: ramegoom on August 07, 2017, 11:52:44 PM
I saw a video on youtube that explains how the system works in a very easy to understand fashion. ... Anyway, that video explains it and so I figured I'd get mine to work similarly with a few phones ... and could explain how an operator connects the phone. I guess I'd need an outside line after all.
That's incorrect.  You do not need an outside line to establish connections between phones connected directly to it.
QuoteSo when I'm not in the "explaining" mood, I'd like it to flash the panel lamps possibly randomly, just sort of an attraction. This might not be easily done, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I still need someone to tell me where the power supply hooks up. I can't find this in the schematic,
What schematic do you have?  The diagram pasted inside is a wiring diagram, not a schematic.

I've dug into my files and found the actual schematics.  They show some flat 24C type fuses, which are flat phenolic fuses with an exposed fuse wire between the ends, mounted under the heads of #10 machine screws.  I don't see fuse holders anywhere in your photos.  Are there fuses somewhere which are not in the photos?
Quoteand once I get the 24v to the system and add a couple of phones, it just might work the way it's supposed to. At least I can experiment with it. But there is an obvious learning curve that needs to be addressed.
In the photo you called misc_TRK there are a few textile insulated thicker black leads going off to the right which appear to be connected to MISC-49, -50 and -31 and a red-black lead connected to MISC-25.  Where do they go?

I see a strap (jumper) between MISC-9 and -17.  Please inspect the entire block and list all straps found between terminals in the MISC area of the block.

unbeldi

Quote from: ramegoom on August 07, 2017, 11:52:44 PM
I guess you'd need to see my game room to understand. It's loaded with oddball gadgets and several antiques plus pinball machines, arcade games, bowling machines and several Bally slot machines. On the antique side,...
I seems that you don't need to ruin a nice switchboard to have lights blinking all over.  The effect of a switchboard lamp blinking should be rather mundane next to game consoles, slot machines, and such.

But you can light the white line lamps without any destruction, simply by shorting the station lines with a relay.  You can buy cheap digitally driven relay banks of 8. Connecting this to an Arduino, the lines can be taken off-hook randomly with a simple control program loop.
The red supervisory lamps  for the cord circuits are harder to automate.

Alex G. Bell

Quote from: unbeldi on August 08, 2017, 08:21:37 AM
I seems that you don't need to ruin a nice switchboard to have lights blinking all over.  The effect of a switchboard lamp blinking should be rather mundane next to game consoles, slot machines, and such.

But you can light the white line lamps without any destruction, simply by shorting the station lines with a relay.  You can buy cheap digitally driven relay banks of 8. Connecting this to an Arduino, the lines can be taken off-hook randomly with a simple control program loop.
The red supervisory lamps  for the cord circuits are harder to automate.
Opto-22 boards for up to 24 solid state 60VDC output relays with 5V DC control inputs are cheap on eBay although an approach using driver ICs would be much more compact.  A pair of 16-channel Opto-22 boards could be used to control 32 pairs, all 30 STA L circuits which are equipped.

The cord lamps on the keyshelf can be controlled by plugging the cords into various EXT (station line) jacks and closing and opening the associated STA L circuit pairs into which they are plugged.  The cord lamps will light when the pairs are open, the opposite of the STA L lamps on the jack face which will light when the pairs are closed if there is no plug inserted. 

Between the 30 STA L lamps associated with the 30 jacks and 20 cord lamps on the keyshelf, 50 lamps total, a total of 30 will be controllable at any time just by shorting and opening the STA L circuits with and without plugs in them without any modifications whatsoever.

Victor Laszlo

#56
ramegoom, you could use some of the relays to ground the sleeves of some cords. That would make the supervisory lamps come on.

ramegoom

Thanks for the responses and lots of great ideas. Once I figure out where the power supply goes, I'm sure a little experimentation will go a long way.  Here's the MISC block with close-up detail and wire colors. Alex G, maybe you can comment on this - I think it's what you were asking for.


Alex G. Bell

Quote from: Victor Laszlo on August 08, 2017, 12:47:07 PM
ramegoom, you could use some of the relays to ground the sleeves of some cords. That would make the supervisory lamps come on.
This suggests modifications to the board.  I thought you made an earlier statement, which seems to have been edited, about connecting to the sleeve terminals of the cord terminal strips.  That sounded like a better idea, but I have not found the cord circuit SD yet to confirm whether it's that simple.

Alex G. Bell

Quote from: ramegoom on August 08, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
Thanks for the responses and lots of great ideas. Once I figure out where the power supply goes, I'm sure a little experimentation will go a long way.  Here's the MISC block with close-up detail and wire colors. Alex G, maybe you can comment on this - I think it's what you were asking for.
Thanks.  It's part of what I asked for: necessary but not sufficient. 

I also asked you to list all the jumpers between/among terminals on the installer side of the MISC area of this block.  I cannot resolve that information from a 2-dimensional image with wires which exit the frame.

In addition I asked where the textile insulated thick black and red-blue leads go.

Thirdly I asked whether you see any fuses and described what they look like.  I'm not going to repeat the description.  Re-read my previous message.