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Another 1937 302?!?

Started by WEBellSystemChristian, January 25, 2016, 11:00:02 PM

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WEBellSystemChristian

I found this on ebay only minutes ago. When I first saw it, apart from the E1 handset, something looked off from a normal 302. Since there was only one picture of the phone (and two of the handset, go figure), I decided to try something...

I compared a 1937 and 1938 302 with an E1 handset, and set the handset on the cradle of each phone in the same way the seller posed the ebay phone. I decided that it undoubtedly looked similar to the '37, so I pushed the button at $19 plus shipping.

It seems interesting that it has an E1 handset, which, if original, would be a pretty rare sight on a '37. However, the transmitter capsule is dated 1938. I won't know if the handset itself is original or not until I get it, if the phone is even a 1937.

I took some really bad pictures for my own comparison; I may get better ones for your viewing.

It may be a bit of a stretch, but worst comes to worst, the handset is worth at least twice the price I paid. What do you all think? ???

http://m.ebay.com/itm/281919551846
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

JimH

Very good deal!  I would have done the same.  I think any 302 in one piece is worth what you paid.  The E1 handset just makes it an even sweeter deal.

Jim
Jim H.

andre_janew

It looks strange because it has no dial card or card retainer. 

wds

Nice grab.  I was watching that one, and asked the Seller for more pictures.  Before I got a chance to check for the additional photos,  the phone was sold!  I was sure of the age of the phone, but figured the handset was worth the price.  Should be easy enough to sand down the corrosion and make it look really nice. 
Dave

WEBellSystemChristian

#4
So everyone else thinks it's a '37? In that case, I hope the handset is original!

Dave; I plan on stripping the housing/lift/dial blank down completely and powdercoating it. it should look museum-ready when I'm done with it!

Has anyone else had damage-free success removing the two-piece dial blank? I tried separating the face from the 'mounting plate' (for lack of a better term) on my first blank to powdercoat, but I snapped one of the tabs holding the terminal strip in place. How does anyone else bend it without snapping? Heat?
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

wds

Sorry, typo error.  I meant to say I wasn't sure of the age of the phone. 
Dave

WEBellSystemChristian

#6
Okay, here are some comparison pictures. They aren't exact, and they aren't show-worthy pictures, but they hopefully get the point across.

The first is my later 1937 with an E1, and the 2nd is my 1938 with the same E1, and both show the handset sitting is the same position as the phone in the listing. It may not seem like it, but the handset is pushed as far against the rear left cradle ear and right front as possible, same with the '37. Notice the amount of the cradle ears visible on each phone. The 3rd is the eBay phone; tell me what you guys think...
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

RotarDad

Christian - That is very tough to call.  However, my best guess is that it is indeed a short-eared set.  There is not much of the left rear ear showing, similar to your '37.  You'll know in a few days....maybe even a IV 36.... ;)
Paul

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: RotarDad on January 27, 2016, 01:44:34 AM
Christian - That is very tough to call.  However, my best guess is that it is indeed a short-eared set.  There is not much of the left rear ear showing, similar to your '37.  You'll know in a few days....maybe even a IV 36.... ;)
Heck, maybe even a field trial! Highly doubtful, but anything's possible... ::)

Also notice the spacing between the handset and the front left ear. On my '38, there's almost no room to move the handset, and there is a tiny gap between the ear and handset. On my '37 and the eBay phone, there is a much bigger gap there.

I'm probably paying too close attention to the details on a blurry eBay photo, but I still see hope that there's a decent '37 needing restoration under that bad coat of paint and grime. If not, I paid $19 for an E1 and a regular metal 302!
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

WEBellSystemChristian

The phone is expected by FedEx (but not promised by any means) to be delivered tomorrow. I sure hope it's a '37! Fingers crossed!!! :)
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Phonesrfun

#10
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on January 26, 2016, 10:47:50 PM
tell me what you guys think...

My preference would be to not use powder coat on an early phone.

<Edit>
Let me clarify.  Although powder coating looks great, the powder coating I have seen is a lot thicker than paint, and since it is thicker, some parts might not fit exactly after painting.

The other thing is that while it will produce a great looking finish, it might just lower the value of the phone to another collector down the road because the powder coat finish is not the kind of finish it would have originally had. 

Obviously each of us have preferences and I certainly cannot say that by applying powder coat to the phone that you would actually lower its value.  That really is a subjective thing.  It would just be my preference to do otherwise.

I hope you don't think I am being a purist because I usually tend not to be.
-Bill G

WEBellSystemChristian

Quote from: Phonesrfun on January 29, 2016, 12:36:57 AM
Quote from: WEBellSystemChristian on January 26, 2016, 10:47:50 PM
tell me what you guys think...

My preference would be to not use powder coat on an early phone.

<Edit>
Let me clarify.  Although powder coating looks great, the powder coating I have seen is a lot thicker than paint, and since it is thicker, some parts might not fit exactly after painting.

The other thing is that while it will produce a great looking finish, it might just lower the value of the phone to another collector down the road because the powder coat finish is not the kind of finish it would have originally had. 

Obviously each of us have preferences and I certainly cannot say that by applying powder coat to the phone that you would actually lower its value.  That really is a subjective thing.  It would just be my preference to do otherwise.

I hope you don't think I am being a purist because I usually tend not to be.
Well, I think it all depends on how you look at it...

Most people who have 'tried' powdercoating usually aren't very experienced, or have even done it before. Unless you don't powdercoat often, (I fall into that category) you usually tend to cake it on, making indented housing stamps and screw holes almost invisible. A more experienced powdercoater (my Dad falls into this category) is aware of how much he's applying and makes housing stamps (like H1 in the rear of early 302s) more visible with less powder. I know what the powder can get to, and I cover up all screw holes with heat-resistant tape.

Powdercoating isn't really all that different from paint in it's basic form; it's mainly the way it's applied that gives powdercoat its strength. It settles as one giant membrane on the surface because the powder is melted together with heat. Paint is applied with solvents, and settles as individual particles on the surface; the thinner the coat, the more likely it will chip off (most likely to be thin when trying to preserve stamps). Powdercoat doesn't have this problem, so it stays as one piece and is far more resistant to chipping and wear than paint. So when I sell it (probably after I'm dead in 60-70 years) the powdercoat will probably still be intact. A paint job will be peeling and chipping by that time, and a collector would much rather have a 60-year-old powdercoat in great shape on a 140-year-old phone rather than a paint job (now in horrible shape) that the only thing it has going for it is that it was the right 'technique'.

Even then, spray paint today is far different than paint that was used 80 years ago, and to make it authentic would mean painting it with authentic Western Electric equipment, and would also contain lead.

In my opinion, Powdercoating is great for the long run, and I only use spray paint for small stuff.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Dennis Markham

What I know about powdercoating could be written on the head of a pin.  I do remember though, a long-time collector once telling me to stay away from it for phones.  That was just his opinion and since you're discussing it here thought I'd mention that.  Ultimately of course, it's your phone and you can do whatever you want with it.

WEBellSystemChristian

#13
Some powders (like some simply advertised as 'black') tend to be lower quality than the powder produced by bigger companies, like Columbia Coatings. Their 'Gloss Black' is very high quality, and looks really good on the finished product. Some are kind of chalky, and one that came out bad and needed to be redone took a week in paint stripper, many peeled off as one. The stuff my Dad uses now dissolves well, but resists wear without stripper.

I've only repainted one housing, and all other housings of mine that needed to be recoated were powdercoated. I personally see nothing wrong with it.

One of my '37s (the one from the lot of 4 phones) was powdercoated with mirror black, and it came out great!

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15304
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

WEBellSystemChristian

I'm in school right now, but the phone arrived at home only minutes ago. My Dad got a few pictures...

Has anyone ever seen a dial blank stamped like this? This definitely looks original!

The handset is dated '31, but I bet it was installed at the factory or a distribution center during an F1 shortage.

The base is caked in either corrosion or dust, so I can't see the base date stamp.

Last but not least, it has vents and small plungers!!! How about that, I was right!

I would post the rest of the pictures, but this was the only one that didn't fail security checks. I'll get more pictures tonight.
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford