Automatic Electric 1A - Red with Gold Trim

[wds]

Why would they offer two different receiver coils?  Did they have two different uses?

[stub]

 unbeldi,
             It may have been earlier than that. Look at this 1926 AE # 1. The change ( 1940 ) I was talking about was when the induction-coil receiver lost it's external resistor . The 1 A takes the polarized receiver and a subset with the 3 winding induction coil in it and the 11 A has the induction-coil receiver plus the 205 ohm resistor on connection 8 in the base.
             It's still a beautiful phone, but too rich for my blood!!!!   stub

[stub]

wds,
        Who knows how AE and Am E did things . I think it may have been cheaper to upgrade phones and not have to get a new ringer box like for the 1A . You could use a regular ringer subset on all the induction-coil receiver type phones. AE also used the induction-coil receivers in their intercoms and PAX phones also.
         How in the world do you and Doug R keep finding these AE jewels!!!!!!  stub

[unbeldi]

unbeldi,
             It may have been earlier than that. Look at this 1926 AE # 1. The change ( 1940 ) I was talking about was when the induction-coil receiver lost it's external resistor . The 1 A takes the polarized receiver and a subset with the 3 winding induction coil in it and the 11 A has the induction-coil receiver plus the 205 ohm resistor on connection 8 in the base.
             It's still a beautiful phone, but too rich for my blood!!!!   stub

Yes, I completely agree that the #1#11 used the induction coil receiver, while the #11#1 didn't.[Got that backwards,sorry] The catalogs bear that out clearly.

The induction coil receiver stayed around for a long time actually, and was used in the thirties for primarily private intercom apparatus.  Perhaps it was 1940 when they discontinued this type altogether, with the advent of the AE model 40.

Almost all versions of anti-sidetone induction coil circuits were either patented by Campbell/Western Electric, or were published so that nobody else could patent them.  The patent contained something like 30 or 40 different circuit variations.  They decided to published many more in the literature, because they felt that those were not as production-worthy, but wanted to make sure no one else could do so.

So, perhaps AE's version was in attempt to avoid WECo's patents.

@wds:  This may be the reason for two types.  AE sold to many systems to many different companies with differing requirements.  Perhaps this kept their intercom systems proprietary so no one could easily connect 'foreign' instruments to the PABX systems.

@all:
BTW, did the colored phones also have a colored subset? I don't recall ever seeing one with any of the phones I have seen and the ads only show the desk sets, IIRC.


PS: @stub:  I think it was a nice piece of detective work to recognize the discrepancy in receiver construction.  I only paid attention to the wiring diagram in the base at first.

Measurements of the receiver should provide the correct answer.

[stub]

unbeldi,
            I haven't seen any colored subset .
            Did you download the 1939 AE Catalog on Private Telephone Systems and Accessories from the TCI Library? 
                        http://tinyurl.com/no2sot4                                                                   stub

[unbeldi]

unbeldi,
            I haven't seen any colored subset .
            Did you download the 1939 AE Catalog on Private Telephone Systems and Accessories from the TCI Library? 
                        http://tinyurl.com/no2sot4                                                                   stub

Yes, I think that does contain both types still, but it also still contains wood telephones.

[poplar1]

Are the gold and chrome cradles made of the same type metal as the black metal cradles on 1As?

[unbeldi]

Are the gold and chrome cradles made of the same type metal as the black metal cradles on 1As?

Somewhere is stated that these were made from a phosphor bronze alloy. These are known for their strength, perhaps because the phosphor content prevents oxidation during casting and reduced grain boundaries.

I would expect that AE used it for all the metal cradles of the time and only changed the finish for the color phones.

[AE_Collector]

All of the METAL cradles that I have seen on black AE 1A sets were pot metal / zinc. Plus of course the black bakelite cradles that usually have an odd number of corner posts to keep the handset in place 

Maybe they cast cradles of bronze to allow for easier application of chrome or gold matte finishes on the colored phones. At least in the time frame when they were making the metal cradles rather than bakelite or plastic cradles.

Terry

[unbeldi]

All of the METAL cradles that I have seen on black AE 1A sets were pot metal / zinc. Plus of course the black bakelite cradles that usually have an odd number of corner posts tomkeepmthe handset in place

Maybe they cast cradles of bronze to allow for easier application of chrome or gold matte finishes on the colored phones. At least in the time frame when they were making the metal cradles rather than bakelite or plastic cradles.

Terry

I do believe this specification was for black finished cradles. I haven't seen any colored ones in regular catalogs.
Some time ago, I researched zinc alloy history (or tried).  And I think I came away with the impression that it was perhaps not used yet in the 20s for applications such as this. Even WECo used aluminum alloys for the D-type housings until 36 or so, and they used steel before that.

But my knowledge about the history is far from complete or certain...


PS:  the European makers also used steel in the 1920s, usually rather thin sheet metal, e.g., the S&H model 27 or the Fuld housings.

[stub]

Terry,
          Look at the ad I posted from 1926 Telephone Engineer of a AE # 1 .  I have one of the tall cradles in pot metal but of course one ear is broken off. I did get one of the bronzed short cradles one time but sent it back because it wouldn't go in any of the bakelite 1A bases I had. Didn't think to check it on the stamped metal bases though. 
         BTW look at that 1926 # 2  .   
  unbeldi,
              your right phosphor bronze.     stub

[unbeldi]

Does anyone really know the year AE started making colored phones?  I have heard various rumors, but seen no evidence. However, Catalin was first trademarked in 1927 and I have seen a few statements that claim these to be Catalin. But it really took till the 1930s for consumer goods to be fabricated from it. Were telephones really the first?

Did your red housing smell phenolic?

[wds]

I don't recall any smell from the red phone.  I had the phone apart, checked it pretty thoroughly, and there was no smell.

[rdelius]

I know of no telephones made from Catalin .Catilin had to be cast in molds that had to be destroyed to remove them.You had  some machining of the item produced .Catilin castings tend to be flat  or simple curves.You could not make something as complex as a telephone handset or cradle out of Catalin.

[AE_Collector]

If trying to determine dates by the AE models themselves that have been seen in colors, the 40's and 50's are *relatively* plentiful in colors and the 40/50 models wee introduced 1939ish.

The 34/35's exist in colors though the models themselves are much more rare than 40/50. Likely the 34/35 was not produced for very long along side the 40/50 as the 40/50 was a direct improved replacement form34/35. 34/35 was likely produced from 1934 to 1940 or so. So the fact that 34/35 were available in color tends to at least verify that 40/50 was probably available in color from the beginning in 1939 or so.

The AE 1A was of course available in color and that model was introduced about 1926. But I have seen much info that indicates that the 1A continued to be made along side the 34/35 and the 40/50 likely well jnto the 1950's. Since the 34/35 and 40/50 was not a direct replacement of the 1A, they apparently continued to produce the 1A for some customers for a long time. AE would make anything that someone would buy. SO, the existence of colored 1A sets doesn't prove that colored AE sets were made back to 1926 due to the 1A's long production run.

The AE 2 has been seen in the Mahogany or Walnut bakelite versions (see my current avatar) which wasn't colored plastic but shows them playing with the possibilities then and the AE 2 dates from about 1928. I would also assume that the AE 2 would have been discontinued quite quickly when the 34 launched in 1934.

So to recap:

AE was playing with colors, first the mahogany and Walnut variations of bakelite in the 1928 to 1934 time frame.

Colored plastics seen in model 34/35 sets made in the 1934 to 1939 time frame.

Colored sets much more plentiful once the 40/50 introduced in 1939.

Terry