Hello all, have not posted in a couple of years here, the phone hobby had taken a back seat due to work, adult kids moving in and out, two grandchildren, one from each kid and now retirement. No new acquisitions but as time allows I'm getting back into it.
I acquired a coin chute from Ebay for my 233G which has pretty much laid dormant since I am down to one Dial Gizmo, lost one due to a lightning strike two doors down one morning that hit the outside junction box. Anyway, tonight I connected the chute and no dial tone.
Tested it with a TT phone, background hum only, no dial tone. Replaced the modular plug with another new one, same thing. Visual inspection of the wiring reveals nothing, have not done anything in the area that could have damaged the wiring. Only thing I can imagine is that we had Uverse, dropped it and went to Direct TV. Possibly the installer damaged that one circuit or disconnected it but for circumstances at the time of the two afformentioned adult children taking over the basement I never thought to check it. It's not a normal POTS line we are now on, I have to use a Dial Gizmo for the rotary phones to work so I think we have the same phone service type that Uverse is,only a guess though.
So, recommendations for a test set that will not break the bank so I can trace and chase, as it will probably be a use once and put away. Or anyone have a used one they want to sell?
I'm also posting a question on the WE Pay Phone forum if anyone wants to take a look at that too.
Thanks in advance.
Hello again from a few year hiatus for me. As I explained in the General Forum just getting back into the hobby post retirement.
Anyway, I want to make my 233G a real functional pay phone. Have been reading the do it yourself coin controller instructions with the modification to the coin relay which I acquired a few years ago. My coin chute was hacked when the phone was modified , someone jammed a screwdriver into the electromagnet windings of the solenoid at the top of the coin chute. I just got one from Ebay, this one actually will hold one nickel until the second one is inserted than drops, better than the one that came with my phone would do.
Anyway, as I installed the chute my question is there a way that I can test the solenoid for operation? It's all wired in and I checked for continuity with a ohmmeter so I assume that until that solenoid is tripped the dial tone will not be enabled, am I right?
Nope.
To test the electromagnet connect a standard 9V transistor radio battery to the 'A' and 'E' screws at the bottom of the coin track. The electromagnet should pull in. Deposit ONE nickel in the track. If the nickel falls through the track the 'first nickel hold' feature is defeated. That's what the electromagnet is suppose to do.
You first get a dial tone then the electromagnet will pull in. Not the other way around.
Stan S.
Thank you Stan.
So, if the purpose of the electromagnet is for coin control there was no reason for the coil to have been destroyed when the phone was "civilianized". right?
Exactly.
Possibly the value of the copper wire as salvage.
I can't think of any technical reason.
Stan S.
Stan, I connected a 9v battery to the electromagnet, it clicks. It then dumps the first nickel. So far so good I suppose.
Whoever hacked the phone left the copper wire intact, they just forced a screwdriver into the coil breaking the windings. If they were intent on disabling it's function all they had to do was to either disconnect or clip either or both of the green wires.
So my challenge is to restore the phone back to the way it left WE except for the mods to the coin relay that will be necessary.
Thank you again Stan for your replies. I have to tackle the line repair in my basement next once I determine what test set I need to get.
QuoteSo my challenge is to restore the phone back to the way it left WE except for the mods to the coin relay that will be necessary.
Stop!
What mods to the coin relay?
Stan S.
This topic would be easier to understand with detailed pictures (about 3000 by 2000 pixels in size) of the inside showing what parts are or are not there..
( and, thanks for giving me a chance to use one of my most favorite images found in the internet some time ago )
That pic is too much John... :D
Quote from: Stan S on December 05, 2017, 01:07:40 PM
Stop!
What mods to the coin relay?
Stan S.
The one described here: https://atcaonline.com/controller.html
I have not made any mods to it yet. Still in the reading, studying and deciding stage of what to use. Price is a consideration now as SS only goes so far but please I don't want to sound like I'm complaining or crying the blues, just that I have to be more conservative in what I do now. If I decide to go the more expensive route for a controller it can be done but it's not the "ooh shiny, get it now!" but budget for it down the road.
Quote from: TelePlay on December 05, 2017, 01:26:02 PM
This topic would be easier to understand with detailed pictures (about 3000 by 2000 pixels in size) of the inside showing what parts are or are not there.
John,
Photo posting challenged here. The best I can describe it is that whoever had this phone before (I got it from Ebay) was never able to dial out on it. I replaced the solid strand 4 conductor , replace a physically damaged dial and had to jump L2 to C terminal on the 425A network that was "mounted" (term used loosely) in the coin vault compartment. At that point I could use it like an extension phone.
The earlier mentioned coin chute's electromagnet was "disconnected" by jamming a screwdriver into the windings. The coin trap, the trap lever and spring were missing, I acquired these pieces and replaced them in the hopper, they now seem to work. I also got a coin relay for it, at least the hopper was not destroyed when it was removed.
The coin vault door is the only thing that has been restored as of now, had it replated, that was a fifty dollar "ouch" about five or six years ago along with new upper and lower locks,those were both missing, the phone upper was held in place by a carriage bolt, the lower was also bolted, this time by a hex head bolt. I only paid $125 for it, listed on Ebay as working. Yep, working as a paper weight...
Quote from: Shovelhead on December 05, 2017, 06:15:54 PM
John,
Photo posting challenged here.
A good place to start.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8990.msg94729#msg94729
QuoteThe one described here: https://atcaonline.com/controller.html
That's what I was afraid you were referring to.
The major problem with the Internet is that things never seem to go away.
They keep coming back like a bad penny.
The purpose of that device was to simply ANIMATE the coin relay.
It wasn't to replicate the operation of a payphone.
The latest version of a REAL payphone controller is here:
h ttps://tinyurl.com/dzlsbh BAD LINKStan S.
===========================================
EDIT: This is the link to the current controller https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Mini-Coin-Controller-For-Your-Antique-3-Slot-Payphone/302552909976
Stan, is that your controller?
I deny all and demand a blood test!
OK, guilty.
Stan S.
you say you got a new coin relay. did you get the correct one? Three slot relays have 4 terminals. Single slots have 2 terminals.
Quote from: trainman on December 06, 2017, 05:59:04 AM
you say you got a new coin relay. did you get the correct one? Three slot relays have 4 terminals. Single slots have 2 terminals.
Two wire, I was told that the one slot and three slot used the same relay........looks like I have a one slot relay to put on Ebay..........am I right?
Quote from: Stan S on December 06, 2017, 01:21:27 AM
I deny all and demand a blood test!
OK, guilty.
Stan S.
So, I gotta start saving from my SS checks is what you're saying..........;)
Sarcasm is my second language.........but now on a serious note.
Saying that I get this phone put back to BSP standards mechanically and cosmetically I'll get Stan's controller but I want to make sure this phone will work correctly first.
I'll appreciate any and all advice that I get here. Thanks in advance.
By the way....It's good to see you back here again Shovelhead. Last seen here in first half of 2014. Glad you didn't forget about us!
Terry
Shovelhead - The two conductor relay will work fine for your 233G. The other 2 contacts are for a dial short that was used to prevent people from gaining dial tone without a coin, and then making calls. (Someone else can explain how they got dial tone - something about shorting the handset with a paperclip). Anyway the dial short contacts prevent the dial from being used until a coin is dropped to hit the hopper trigger. The short is then opened and the dial will function.
For home use, this feature is irrelevant, and Stan's controller will work fine with just the 2 relay activation contacts.
Stan - please tear this post up if any info is wrong...... :)
Quote from: AE_Collector on December 06, 2017, 11:44:58 PM
By the way....It's good to see you back here again Shovelhead. Last seen here in first half of 2014. Glad you didn't forget about us!
Terry
Yes, work, shoulder injury, subsequent surgery, got a call from my old part time supervisor at a Harley dealership to come back in prep for retirement from car dealership parts departments, trying to get stuff caught up here since first official day of retirement July 1st, birth of two grandsons, etc. Now you see "la vida loca". So now starting on things that need to be done, finish hot rodding a project car, inside painting/updating, still removing all vestiges of adult daughter and son in law living here for a year and a half..........and it goes on.
I lurked here and there but had nothing constructive to add at the time. I was still acquiring though, got my first one slot about that time. That's going into the garage next summer.
Quote from: RotarDad on December 07, 2017, 12:03:33 AM
Shovelhead - The two conductor relay will work fine for your 233G. The other 2 contacts are for a dial short that was used to prevent people from gaining dial tone without a coin, and then making calls. (Someone else can explain how they got dial tone - something about shorting the handset with a paperclip). Anyway the dial short contacts prevent the dial from being used until a coin is dropped to hit the hopper trigger. The short is then opened and the dial will function.
For home use, this feature is irrelevant, and Stan's controller will work fine with just the 2 relay activation contacts.
Stan - please tear this post up if any info is wrong...... :)
The wires are yellow and black, which wire goes to which terminal?
BTW, I had heard of the pin thru the handset wire trick, hence the armored cable. I had the ability to make calls for a penny. Drop it in the nickel slot, a hard chop to the coin release button correctly timed and as a result, dial tone.
My mother worked in a Bell public office. She said no way possible. I had to prove it to her with a lobby pay phone that it could be done. My misspent youth...........
Quote from: Shovelhead on December 06, 2017, 10:13:51 PM
So, I gotta start saving from my SS checks is what you're saying..........;)
Or step up the roadside bottle collecting...........;)
Quote from: Shovelhead on December 07, 2017, 01:10:42 AM
Or step up the roadside bottle collecting...........;)
What's wrong with that? Other than the remnants left inside the bottles are a little iffy.... :o
Quote from: Duffy on December 07, 2017, 06:13:06 AM
What's wrong with that? Other than the remnants left inside the bottles are a little iffy.... :o
Nothing at all, as a plus I'm saving the environment too.................
As a kid I was big into supplementing my allowance by collecting bottles (cans were very few back then) for the refund. All the provinces and states that don't have deposit systems on bdverage containers must wind up with a lot more litter as well as easily recycled material going to land fill. British Columbia has had a deposit system as far back as I can remember, prior to the 1960's.
Terry
Quote from: AE_Collector on December 07, 2017, 10:21:57 AM
As a kid I was big into supplementing my allowance by collecting bottles (cans were very few back then) for the refund. All the provinces and states that don't have deposit systems on bdverage containers must wind up with a lot more litter as well as easily recycled material going to land fill. British Columbia has had a deposit system as far back as I can remember, prior to the 1960's.
Terry
Terry
You and I are of the same vintage and I did the same thing here in Ontario where there was a deposit system in place as well. I would collect pop bottles for the 2 cent deposit along my paper route. I didn't get an allowance, like some of you lucky ones. ;) The cans didn't have the deposits on them from what I remember.
And now back to our feature presentation.... :)
So, getting back to restoring the 233G.
Paul is correct. Electrically you can use a single slot 1A coin relay that only has 2 terminals.
However, the problem with those coin relays is the 'T' shaped coin trigger.
It was designed to operate inside a single slot hopper. 3-slot hoppers have a different internal shape..
The coin trigger doesn't reach far enough toward the back of the hopper. Dimes will squeak by the trigger without pushing it down.
If you trim the arms of the 'T' and glue a small piece of plastic on the trigger it will work fine in a three slot.
You have to trim the arms because when the trigger is forced all the way down into the hopper it jams on the sides.
See attached below.
Stan S.
I'll do that modification this weekend. Thanks Stan and Paul.
Thanks Stan - I forgot about that difference with the trigger! (Trainman, we were both sorta right on the relay compatibility... ;)) For comparison, Shovelhead, as you do the mod, here are a couple pics of the 4-contact relay's hopper trigger. You can see that there is a piece of the trigger that extends thru a rectangular hole in the hopper - no way any coin can sneak by!
I'm wondering if you can take part of the plastic you remove from your hopper trigger and simply re-glue it to create the correct longer shape you need....
I think it would be too small but you know those fake plastic cards that AARP sends with their never ending solicitations? I'm thinking of trying that out.
Nope.
I stopped opening their mail years ago.
All of it goes straight in the garbage.
Biggest con job on the planet.
If you know anyone that uses a glucose meter, a test strip should be perfect.
Stan S.