I've been wanting to touch on this in the past. What technique, paint, and prep are you using for the job? I'm referring to metal body phones. I'd like to see what others are doing. Last, what are you gents using for paint protection on metal phones? I tend to use color correct wax when I can get it. Helps hide imperfection's and really brings out the gloss. Also, I've used Armor All in a pinch. Really shines up a black metal phone nicely.
EDIT: Plastic painting techniques are welcome.
I've only painted plastic phones. First I run them through the dishwasher to get all oils off, and then wipe them with rubbing alcohol to make sure. I use a high quality spray paint for plastic, shake it a lot, and set up a spray area in the garage with plastic tarping to block airflow and try to keep dust off. (hard to do) Several slow coats of paint follow, parts propped up on stands of some sort, with about 30 minutes drying time between coats. Then after the last coat it goes into the oven, about 180 degrees for several hours. Metal fingerwheels get 250 degrees. After a few weeks go by I then apply Turtle Wax, letting the paint fully cure before waxing. The finishes are nice and durable, though they don't look like original finishes on the plastic.
BDM;
I've just received my first metal bodied phone. A Kellogg Red Bar, which I plan to repaint.
I'm not sure how I'm going to go about this, but probably will try stripper on the old finish, If stripper does not work, I may outsource to a glass bead blast, as glass bead will not pit the finish, make sure the body is a smooth as possible, prime the case, wet sand, then apply two or maybe even three coats of black lacquer, and bake in my toaster oven on 200-220 degrees for about two hours.
This seems to work great on other metal items.
Small item I don't prime, but this I think calls for a primer coat, to fill in tiny imperfections in the casting.
Once I start I will post before, and after shots.
D/P
I know a few tricks. Some folks use bondo to get a very smooth glass like finish. Now, from I remember about paint type. Enamle seems to be the paint of choice. Baked in the oven at a given amount of time & degree's.
Chuck Eby(long time collector) melted a 302 in the oven years ago ;D
Has anyone tried powder-coat? I have the set up to do so and it would hold up much better than normal paint. Not sure if they used it, but I am almost positing the finish on the metal dial of my 500 is powder coat by the way it has worn over time.
I've never Powder Coated. All the old-time phone collectors that have been there-done that say don't. I'm not real sure how it works but it has something to do with grounding a wire or something like that...I have heard that powder coating like a D1 base can remove the Western Electric name along the edge.
Based on what I've heard I personally would not have my phone(s) powder coated.
You need clean bare metal, no filler or primer. The only voltage is static electricity for the most part. t will need to survive a 20 minute 350 bake cycle though.
Unless the stuff is lead or something, it should be unharmed and the finish does not "fill" in things like lines and corners as much as paint does.
Again, I have no idea what the bases are made from... I am guessing a die cast alloy? How is the WE name on the edge of the base? (Just curious)
Engraved, etched.
Wish I could answer this. I've seen 302s that have been powder coated, or at least a certain seller claimed so. They looked good under the high res pics. Of course, proper powder coats are very durable. But I'd have to agree with Dennis. Most top collectors seem to shun that process.
Again, it's a matter of opinion. If the phone's destroyed, do what you like. Given that, no right or wrong. I have an empty 302 shell I'm going to have chromed. It needs serious attention anyhow, so why not ;)
Quote from: McHeath on October 22, 2008, 12:32:40 AM
I've only painted plastic phones. First I run them through the dishwasher to get all oils off, and then wipe them with rubbing alcohol to make sure. I use a high quality spray paint for plastic, shake it a lot, and set up a spray area in the garage with plastic tarping to block airflow and try to keep dust off. (hard to do) Several slow coats of paint follow, parts propped up on stands of some sort, with about 30 minutes drying time between coats. Then after the last coat it goes into the oven, about 180 degrees for several hours. Metal fingerwheels get 250 degrees. After a few weeks go by I then apply Turtle Wax, letting the paint fully cure before waxing. The finishes are nice and durable, though they don't look like original finishes on the plastic.
Does this method work with Bakelite also? Some specifics needed - how long is "several hours", 3? 4? 5? Do you put them directly on the oven rack? Middle, top, or bottom? Doesn't your wife get upset about cooking telephones in her oven?
QuoteDoes this method work with Bakelite also? Some specifics needed - how long is "several hours", 3? 4? 5? Do you put them directly on the oven rack? Middle, top, or bottom? Doesn't your wife get upset about cooking telephones in her oven
1. Don't know if it works with bakelite, I've only painted plastic phones.
2. About 3 hours in the oven.
3. I put the parts on a cookie sheet with wooden dowels to rest on so nothing plastic touched the metal sheet.
4. Top rack.
5. My wife is very tolerant of my weird hobby. She even put up with me cooking a phone cord one evening a while back, even when it smelled awful. I try not to talk too much about phones to her, keep it at small doses so she does not get overloaded, and it seems to work out okay. She did make a comment one day, I think after I'd wired up the 6th rotary phone in various rooms of the house, that "How many of those are you going to install in each room?" Figured that was a signal to slow down on the phone installs... ;)
Anybody have any pics of repainted metal phones to share? I'm curious on what brand/type paint was used. Any idea of what type of paint the factories used? Any special prep or techniques for brass fingerwheels?
I'll be painting 4 phones in the coming weeks - 2 SC 1243s and 2 Connecticut Telephone and Electric toaster phones along with their fingerwheels, 3 brass and 1 steel.
This is something I plan on trying again when I get a chance to sit down. I did a couple of phones about 20 years ago. One turned out very nice. I even baked it in the oven, and it still looks good. But the technique and paint used escapes me.
After my fiasco melting a 554 cover in the oven,
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1228.0 ( dead link 9-21-17
I'm going to have to lower my heat recommendations for painting plastic phones. I think in the future I would go no higher than 150 degrees to be safe, I was at 200 and got the melty look with this cover.
Funny thing is that I've used heat close to that before, but not with a cover this new, it was dated 1979, so perhaps the plastic is thinner or a different mixture.
Was this a Tenite (soft plastic) or ABS (hard plastic) phone? That could be the difference.
It was ABS, and the cross section is fairly thin unlike the old Tenite shells.
Also, I painted a Bakelite G1 and it simply came out bad. The original finish was all gone, and it was rough, so I sanded on it with very fine sandpaper and thought it felt pretty smooth. But when the paint went on it was no good, the roughness showed right up.
What about using Crystalac?
http://www.crystalac.com/ ( dead link 9-21-17 )
I was speaking of metal phones, not plastic.
McHeath:
Did you put some primer/sealer on the G1 handset before the paint?
No, and I should have. I thought the sanding would be enough to smooth the surface, and it was to to the touch.
As the temperature in an oven comes up, it will often overshoot its intended value, since the thermostat doesn't necessarily heat as fast as the rest of the oven.
But more likely, when you opened the oven door to put the phone in, some of the heat was lost. The heating element came on, and the radiant heat from that red-hot element "broiled" the plastic to death.
I've never tried it, but I think I would bring the oven to the desired temp or a bit above, then turn it off, then put the phone in.
Bill
That sounds like good "cooking" advice, Bill. I'm also wondering, if the oven has a see-through window, if it might help to have a second oven thermometer placed near the phone parts, that one could keep a sharp eye on, especially during the first 15 minutes or so of placing the parts in the oven, to double check the temperature until it is good and stabilized.
I personally don't have an oven to "cook" phone parts in. I mean, we have an oven, but my GF would kill me if I used it for cooking phone parts in. :P
I'd like to touch on this subject again to see if anybody has gone through with stripping metal phones yet. I'm stripping a 202, and I tried a couple household things I had laying around (Easy-Off, Dawn Power Dissolve). Those products made easy work of a couple layers of black that were put on during refurbs, but it has absolutely no effect on the bottom, original black coat. I'm wondering if a stripper is going to have the same problem with that original coat. Has anybody ever tried something that worked?
For a metal phone, I would not worry about going the max with good old paint stripper. Some that I have heard of that will occasionally do a powdercoat finish (although I don't recommend powdercoat) will sandblast the old paint.
Powdercoat, by the way does not look original, and looks too thick and "industrial" when complete. The glossy powdercoats actually make the phone look like it is dripping wet.
My two cents
-Bill Geurts
Bingster, I am also interested in finding the answer to your question. I recently worked on a 634A subscriber set that has decent black (original) paint but has some household paint (probably leaded) on top of the black. I'd like to remove the top paint (someone painted the wall and hit the box) without disturbing the black paint but I'm sure that won't be possible. I was thinking about re-painting the entire box. I'm open for suggestions. I also have a D1 collecting dust that I'd like to paint.
I used some paint stripper in a spray can that I got at Wal-Mart on a S-C 1243 and it worked very well. I sprayed it, let it foam up for about 6 minutes or so, wiped it with some paper towels, then washed it off with clean water. I did 3 timed just to make sure all paint came off. Its now down to the bare metal. I have not yet sanded/primed/painted it yet though. One more thing, I'd strongly suggest wearing chemical resistant gloves.
Quote from: Phonesrfun on July 30, 2009, 11:43:19 PM
For a metal phone, I would not worry about going the max with good old paint stripper. Some that I have heard of that will occasionally do a powdercoat finish (although I don't recommend powdercoat) will sandblast the old paint. Powdercoat, by the way does not look original...
I agree, Bill. Neither type of powdercoating looks anything like the original finish, and I wouldn't even consider it. I'm not against the idea of leaving what's left of the original finish, but in places where it's chipped away, there's a surprisingly high edge between paint and metal that would need careful sanding to blend in, and given the number these chips, it would mean a great deal of work, and I'd still be worried that it wouldn't be a seamless transition.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on July 30, 2009, 11:48:54 PM
Bingster, I am also interested in finding the answer to your question. I recently worked on a 634A subscriber set that has decent black (original) paint but has some household paint (probably leaded) on top of the black. I'd like to remove the top paint (someone painted the wall and hit the box) without disturbing the black paint
Dennis, if the subsets carry the same paint as the phones, I think you'll find the Dawn Power Dissolver will have no effect on the black, but it almost certainly will cause the house paint to slough right off. You might want to try it on a small spot on the back side of the box or under the condenser to see if it has any effect on the black paint.
Quote from: foots on July 31, 2009, 01:06:18 AM
I used some paint stripper in a spray can that I got at Wal-Mart on a S-C 1243 and it worked very well.
Foots, do you remember the brand?
Thanks for the tip on the Dawn Power Dissolver. Is that in a spray can or otherwise?
Bingster, the stuff is called Klean Strip Premium Stripper. The can is copper and grey in color. It strips paint, epoxy, and polyurethane from wood, metal, and masonry.
Thanks, Foots, I think I'll get a can of that today.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on July 31, 2009, 06:29:45 AM
Thanks for the tip on the Dawn Power Dissolver. Is that in a spray can or otherwise?
It's in a squirt bottle, Dennis. It should be in the dish detergent section of any grocery store. Even though it's designed to cut grease on pots and pans, it's turned out to be a great paint stripper for certain types of paint. I've heard of people using it on everything from model cars to real cars.
Thanks for the info, I will be looking for Dawn at my local grocery store.
I bought a can of Klean Strip Premium Stripper, and tried it out on the 202 that I'm repainting. Here are a couple photos of the stripping. After applying the stripper, I waited fifteen minutes and saw a very wrinkly, buckled layer of paint. After scraping that away, I was met with... ANOTHER layer of black paint! So now I think I'm FINALLY down to the original black finish. To recap, the Dawn Power Dissolver removed two layers of black paint, the stripper removed a third layer, and there's still some of a fourth layer remaining. Once the stripper had removed the heavy black coat, what was left is very thin and very tenacious. A couple more applications of stripper would probably remove the remainder, but the surface is very smooth right now, so I think I'm going to leave it as it is, and lay the primer right on top.
I'll add more photos as the painting progresses.
Photo 1: Phone before stripping.
Photo 2: Stripper after fifteen minutes.
Photo 3: Results of that stripping.
Bingster, I'm taking notes on your progress. I have that D1 (I think I mentioned) that I want to repaint.
My first attempt at finding Dawn proved negative. I went to my local (brand new, huge) Kroger. No Dawn Power Dissolver. I plan to check a couple more places. If I could get the brushed paint off the ringer box without disrupting the black paint below it would be great.
Strike two. I went to WalMart in search of the Dawn Power Dissolver. I should have consulted the internet FIRST. Now I know what I'm looking for. Here is a photo from their web page:
http://www.dawn-dish.com/en_US/powerdissolver.do
Their site even tells one where it can be purchased. One of them was the WalMart store I went to...must have been in some are other than with the dish soap.
Not all Wal-Mart stores are created equally. I live in a small town. Small town=Small Wal-Mart
I have one (WalMart) two miles away in two directions. So I'll check the other one. Unfortunately there are five within a ten mile driving radius. I'm sure I'll find it at one of them.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on August 01, 2009, 08:48:57 AM
Bingster, I'm taking notes on your progress. I have that D1 (I think I mentioned) that I want to repaint.
Me too.
While we're on the subject of paint strippers, one thing that's been popping into my head is marine-grade paint stripper. I used it on one of my aluminum scuba tanks years ago to remove old paint and it worked very well. It was some blue-colored, very thick, almost gel-like stuff that I just slapped on with a paint brush. I didn't have a shop then either, but just did it outside with some newspapers underneath. It worked within a few hours and I just used a putty knife to remove the paint, it just peeled off easily. I bought it at a marine/boat supply store.
Here are the results of my painting of the 202 base in my previous post, directly above. The paint I used was Valspar premium enamel. I had no particular reason for choosing it other than the fact that the color ("antique white") perfectly matched the ivory 354 receiver cap that I took to the hardware store to match. My 354 has aged slightly to a mellow ivory, so I decided to paint the 202 in a color as close to that as I could get. I bought grey primer from the same range.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0698.jpg)
I tackled the dial first. I taped all the "works" so that nothing would get damaged. I could have torn the dial down and painted the entire case, but I thought that if I painted just the visible part, the upper rim, the dial could much more easily be taken back to black if need be. Painting only the upper rim would also preserve all the stampings on the back of the dial.
2 ) Here's the dial all taped up, and after this it received one coat of primer and two coats of paint. I left this to air dry without trying to put it in the oven, because I was afraid to melt the black plastic/rubber collar on the back side of the pulse pawl. The second photo is after the paint had dried and the tape had been removed.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0676.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0681.jpg)
3 ) After carefully smoothing the surface of the D1 base with 0000 steel wool, I applied two coats of primer. After this was done, I was very disappointed, because the primer showed that I hadn't done such a great job of smoothing the surface as I had thought, particularly on the cradle.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0671.jpg)
4 ) After the coats of primer, into the oven it went at 200 degrees for about an hour to harden the primer enough for me to try to smooth the surface a bit. So using wet steel wool, I went to work, and made a little progress, but it still wasn't quite where I wanted it to be. I decided to go ahead with the paint anyway, figuring I'd smooth the paint out if it needed it. I put four coats of paint on the base because it wasn't easy to cover the primer for some reason. Maybe that's just the way it works, but I don't have enough experience with painting to really know. At any rate, four coats it got, and into the oven it went at 200 degrees for two hours. The paint looked surprisingly good before it went in, but when it came out it was spectacular. I tried to get some photos showing reflections in the paint, but I had trouble with all but the photo of the underside of the cradle. In that one, you can see the reflections on the super smooth, hard, glossy surface.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0702.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0699.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0701.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0704.jpg)
I've got all the handset parts taken apart and I'll post results of that part of the project next.
Great work, Bingster. I wish I could paint like that.
That looks absolutely beautiful! Mine was not that smooth at all. I used Krylon Black Gloss for mine (after Krylon primer --several coats and sanding those coats). Then, I had to wet sand mine. Never as smooth and shiny as yours.
Next time, I'm going for the Valspar, that's for sure. I did also bake mine in the oven around 180.
As you can tell, my painting is still a little pebbly, after wet sanding and polishing.
Nice job Bingster, and nice photos. It looks real good, especially the photo with the dial in place. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos of the finished handset. Nto, your phone also looks good. Especially for your first try at painting. I have not been brave enough yet to try it but I have a D1 that is in such bad shape I can't hurt it. I"m going to have to give it a shot too. Thanks for your tips.
Dennis, thanks. I really appreciate the comment. I am enjoying my phone now, but, next time I paint, I hope to get my phone as smooth and shiny as Bingster has. I'd definitely go with the paints Bingster used.
BTW, my handle really looks pretty bad there. I polished it,but I'm thinking the coating is somewhat damaged. What do you and others do, polish with black polish? I don't want to paint. What I ended up doing was putting some brasso on it, after the Novus. Then, I just used some Son of a Gun (like Armorall) to get a shine.
Nto, I have used black shoe polish on Bakelite but it really is only polish and doesn't do much more than put a shine on it just as the other polish does. The surface of the Bakelite is so hard that it doesn't really absorb the pigment.
Even though you have polished it sometimes you can make it better but just polishing it some more. When I do Bakelite, especially the F1's and the E1's I just keep at it until it's about as good as it can get. Meaning, that when you think it's done, do it again. You will find that as you polish the rag will often turn yellow. I continue to polish until no more yellow appears on the application cloth. I also have found that when I polish with quick movement, the friction will warm the handset (part being polished) and remove even more of the yellowing. So I will hand polish the handset, then use the Ryobi as the speed of the rotating head with the terry cloth pad cover will provide friction and remove even more yellowing. When the residue on the rag turns to a gray color then you've pretty much got it as good as it's going to get.
I have never tried spraying it with any artificial substances to enhance the look. Sometimes they just are what they are. Just remember, many of those E1's are from the thirties. That's a lot of human touching---greasy, dirty, oily, etc.
But give the shoe polish a try, maybe it will add just the right shine that will make it better. Some of that stuff, like Armorall makes them greasy and will eventually dry out over time. That's been my experience. Mileage may vary.
Oh, I never knew you had to polish until the rag turned gray! I'm going to polish some more! I'll let you know.
Thanks!
Nto, you don't HAVE to, that's just what I do with mine. Some of the you could rub on until the cows come home and they just don't get any better. Some need very little but most need a lot.
I use black shoe polish, too (the paste kind). It doesn't last forever, but a couple applications definitely help.
After my little triumph with painting the base, the handset brought me quickly back down to Earth. I primed the parts, and found that just like the base, they needed many coats of paint to thoroughly cover the primer. I really don't understand that. I always figured that once you put a primer down, one or two coats of paint would do the job.
Anyway, I put the parts in the oven when I was finished painting. My oven has no temperature gradations below "200," but there is a lower setting called "warm" so that's what I used. I didn't want the bakelite to get too hot for fear of damaging it. Some of the parts came out fine. Not as smooth as the base, but that may be due to the fact that I didn't use as much heat as I did with the base. Still, they were good enough to get by without wet sanding, although I'll probably smooth them out a bit anyway.
But the handle and transmitter cap didn't come out well at all. For some reason each of these two pieces came out with a few bubbles under the paint. I'm not sure if I contaminated the surface with oils from my fingers, or if there was some flaw in my technique. Whatever the problem, I'm going to have to strip the two parts and start again. ::)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/DSCN0710.jpg)
Bingster, as I read your description I wondered if the bubbles were caused by a contaminated piece, as you suggested oils. That's too bad as otherwise it doesn't look bad. It sure doesn't seem take much (dirt, grime, oils, etc) to make the paint react.
I do think the paint may be touchy, because I noticed on the label something I'd never seen before. It says that re-applications must be made within four hours, or you have to wait 36 hours to re-apply. It says that re-applying in that 4-36 hour timeframe will cause the paint to wrinkle and flake.
I'm also going to experiment and see if I can bake bakelite at 200 degrees. I have an old Stromberg "horse hoof" handset that's totally shot, so I'm going to disassemble it and chuck the pieces in the oven at 200 to see if it gets damaged. If it comes out unscathed, then I'll put the handle and transmitter cap in at those temps, and see if that helps the paint to smooth out as well as the paint on the base.
Bakelite is used these days for the handles of kitchen pots and pans. I have a few in my kitchen that go from heat to cold every day and have never broken.
Of course, testing with old parts is always a good idea.
Quote from: ntophones on November 24, 2009, 09:38:59 AMI am enjoying my phone now, but, next time I paint, I hope to get my phone as smooth and shiny as Bingster has. I'd definitely go with the paints Bingster used.
I don't know that I'd recommend this paint. I've been redoing the handset parts over the last couple days, and it's been a nightmare. For some reason, it's really tough to get the paint to cover the primer. On the sharp edges, the paint tends to migrate away from the edges, and it took six or seven shots to get the edges covered well.
I'll post photos when I'm finished, but I had a little disaster with the receiver cap. I dropped it and chipped the paint up and now I have to redo it. The rest of the parts are fine, but they have so many coats of paint on them that I'm going to have to let the paint cure for a week or two before I sand and polish the paint.
In the meantime, I wound up sanding and polishing the paint on the base, even though I wasn't going to. It wasn't dead smooth, but it was perfectly acceptable. I'm glad I did it though, because now it's as smooth as an original type finish, and it also knocked down the gloss just a bit. The gloss had been too high, which should generally be avoided since it's glaringly unoriginal, but now it's got the same ever-so-slight satin finish that WE originals had.
I'm glad you are writing about this.
The WE202 I repainted has about 5-6 thin coats over the primer. I recently accidentally scratched it a bit around the dial. I also polished it a little more with Novus #2. The things I learned about the Krylon Gloss paint that I used are:
1) it takes a lot of coats
2) it needs to be wet sanded a bit or have Novus #2 with a buffer applied for a really shiny shine. Otherwise, it is o.k., but not too smooth.
But, your paint looks pretty. I'm sorry about the pesky handset problems. Good work, though!
There are many good ideas here. I haven't done this in a while because of the messy overspray in my garage. I usually use rustoleum products. Here's what I have done in the past.
1. Parts to be painted must be totally clean. Silicone is the most difficult to remove. I use paint stripper on bakelite. I use mineral spirits on plastic that I have painted. Change rags or paper towels frequently.
2. Do any body work needed with automotive bondo products.
3. Primer. Do not skip this step!
4. Apply thin coats of paint every few minutes. Clean the nozzle every few minutes to keep spray even and clean. Keep the applied paint looking wet, but try to prevent runs. You want as many coats as you can so that when you begin sanding/polishing you have enough paint to avoid sanding through. There will be times when you may have imperfections that will require starting over. Try not to get discouraged.
5. I let time do the curing not an oven, usually about a week.
6. Then begin sanding/polishing. I try to stay away from edges as much as possible to avoid sanding through.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on November 24, 2009, 05:35:24 PM
Bingster, as I read your description I wondered if the bubbles were caused by a contaminated piece, as you suggested oils. That's too bad as otherwise it doesn't look bad. It sure doesn't seem take much (dirt, grime, oils, etc) to make the paint react.
From auto body experience, silicone (like Armor All) is a painter's worst enemy. Typical result is "fish eyes" in the paint. Body shops won't let an Armor All-treated surface anywhere near the paint booth. That, or similar, could be the cause of several problems with paint that have been mentioned.
Well, first off I'm sorry I don't have any pics of my 1243 I've experimented with, but here is my method so far. I used the spray can Rustoleum black lacquer that I buy from Wal~Mart. After completely stripping the paint and thoroughly washing the housing with very hot water and drying I apply a coat, let it dry for an hour or so then repeat for a few more coats. Make sure you coat the tips of the cradle ears good. After the paint has been allowed to dry for a few days, it will be very glossy but have a bit of orange peel. I then take 0000 steel wool and lightly scuff the paint enough to remove all of the orange peel and thoroughly rinse off and dry the housing. The phone should appear to have a smooth flat black color. I then use a clean rag and some Turtle Wax White Polishing Compound and Scratch Remover and then buff with a clean cloth diaper. If all of the orange peel is gone, I then apply a good quality car wax and hand buff again. This leaves a good, smooth, shiny appearance that looks factory.
I'm going to strip and repaint the 1243, only this time I'm going to put the housing in the oven to let it cure rather than letting it air dry for a few days as I think the heat from the oven will help to settle the paint.
That's what I found with my base, foots. The oven made a major difference in the look of the paint, making it much smoother.
Quote from: McHeath on April 05, 2009, 12:39:31 PM
5. My wife is very tolerant of my weird hobby. ......... She did make a comment one day, I think after I'd wired up the 6th rotary phone in various rooms of the house, that "How many of those are you going to install in each room?" Figured that was a signal to slow down on the phone installs... ;)
Curiously enuf, MINE actually WANTS me to get a "nice one" working so as to install it in the sitting room of her mother's condo as a conversation piece (well, and as an extra working instrument too). :o
:D
I find that 220 degrees works wonders on paint. it causes the paint to flow, and all but eliminates any surface imperfections. It levels, Will fill small scratches. !80 to 200 is not quite hot enough. Be especially cautious on older phones. Some parts were made of Hard rubber and not Bakelite. The hard rubber parts will get damaged in the heat.
D/P
I don't know how Western Electric did the colored metal sets; but for the black ones, they were jappaned not painted. Until about 1930 they used aspaltum in their jappaning. This was replaced by another material that was more resistant to perspiration. Research to date has not identified the material they used to replace asphaltum. In any case if you want the black finish that is the original on candlesticks, A mounting and B mounting use jappaning with aspaltum. By the way, you might consider heat lamps rather than your kitchen oven to avoid family friction.
Chuck
???
... not sure I'm up to "japaning with asphaltum." Where would I even get the stuff??
But would you all say that a good can of Rustoleum, carefully applied to the chipped parts of a D1 mount, followed by (how long??) in the oven at 200 degrees Fahrenheit, would make a decent seal. I'm not trying to achieve survival of the parts through the next Ice Age. Just make them a 'tad sturdy to stand up to occasional use without chipping?? ???
;D
All the ingredients for japanning are available. If you decide to paint, I would use auto paint rather than Krylon or Restoleum. It is far better paint, as indicated by the fact that it will cost about $80 per quart. Go to a good auto supply store, not one of the blister package chains, that knows paint well. Tell them you want "black black" as the color because they will be otherwise expecting you to have the paint number for a particular auto. Tell them what you want it for. Purchase the kind that doesn't require a clear coat for shine. You will also require some reducer (thinner) and hardener that is compatible with the paint. They will know what kind.
The best way to apply the paint is with a regular spray outfit (somewhat of overkill for a phone) or preferably an airbrush. If you don't have other uses for either of these, the expense of the outfits will probably deter you. In that case use a Prevel spray combination. The propellant and container are separate so you can use your choice of paint. Prevel is available at the big box hardware stores and other paint stores. Remember many parts of new auto are plastic of one kind or another, so the auto paint you buy is usable on plastic. You can buy little wipe sheets that facilitate paint adhesion to plastic. For priming, a spray can of primer from the same auto store will suffice. Bake the finish coat using heat lamps or an oven of some kind.
Quote from: cihensley@aol.com on July 02, 2010, 10:53:05 AM
All the ingredients for japanning are available. If you decide to paint, I would use auto paint rather than Krylon or Restoleum. It is far better paint, as indicated by the fact that it will cost about $80 per quart. <snip>
Thanks! Sounds like you're suggesting stripping and repainting the whole mount? I had in MIND just a "touch up" of the few areas -- mostly around the "ears" of the cradle -- where the paint has chipped off over the ages.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Aurelius/Ad-fonum/WesternElectricTelephoneD1BaseE1Rec.jpg)
I also hadn't intended to turn this into a major operation. Any further suggestions in that respect.... besides that is, "a job worth doing..."
;D
I have never painted or otherwise tried to restore just the chipped part, but after sanding the area to smooth it out I guess the rest of of my recommendation stands.
Chuck
I am sorry I am bring back such an old post but in the verry beggening mcheath said something about painting tentite. i have a few questions
1. what tempature did you bake on ours only goes to 170
2. did you sand the case before you painted?
3. will it melt the case in the dishwasher?
I don't know if this will help or not but when using a good automotive paint they only bake the parts or car for an hour at a surface temp of140 degrees. Granted there using a catalyst paint. The temps I've seen posted here are well over that and seem a bit extreme, specially for plastic. I have done my share of phones in the past and recently I've been restoring antique electric fans. I use a 2 stage Urethane and never put anything in an oven. Yes, it's a bit pricey but, if your going to do a job why not do it right. The equipment is not all that costly to do these small projects and there are many good urethane's out there to choose from that are not that pricey. I always use a etching primer, adhesion is the key besides having your pieces degreased, prep work is essential to a good paint job.
I NEVER use Bondo (body filler), I use glazing putty and very little. As far as painting plastics there's some good paints out there but I have no experience with them. I you just want to rattle can it, Rust-O-leum has proven to be a good product. Hope this help someone.
I just wanted to mention this, as it is something I have had great success with...
One several black painted phones recently, I have has a number of small paint chips. I used to completely re-paint similar phones, but one day while in Canadian Tire, I had an idea.
Canadian Tire and other automotive stores carry a product called Dupli-Color Scratch-fix 21.
The next day, I went back in with a paint sample, and bought a touch-up can of paint. It is a hand size tube which has a small brush in it for touching up scratches. THe one I found works best is called Obsidian Black Pearl (Dupli-Color # SU 01249) and is made to touch up the Subaru 32J color.
One cleans the area to paint, and merely places a drop in the chip. Let it dry, then using rubbing compound, feather down the edges. When done, the repair is almost completely impossible to see on most black painted phones. Now, I must admit, using the rubbing compound is very important in this process, as the edges of the repair if done properly will feather completely into the edges of the chip, making any slight color mis-match virtually un-noticeable.
Just thought I would post the suggestion, as it has saved me quite bit of stripping down and repainting of phones with just minor chips.
For those with extensive damage, complete re-painting is still best.
Dave
Hello All - Thought I'd share my refurnising first try on my D1. Dated IV 36 on the inside of the mount. I lost the date on the plunger - it was 11 50. Anyway I used Kleen Strip Green from Lowes, a thicker product than the spray - it worked really well - it did take two tries to get all the paint off. I then cleaned it well, and did a steel wool once over.
I used Valspar primer and black gloss, The primer and black went on quite nicely I think. (again my first attempt) I've included pictures of it before and after.
I enjoyed the experience and would attempt it again.
Hope you all enjoy it.
Jim
Jim....looks outstanding.....nice job....Doug
Here's the D1 reassembled - I like the way it turned out. Want to get some novous for the handle. Also included part of my collection.
Jim
All:
I want to share my experiences with painting a 1939 metal-base North Galion phone. I am not claiming that this is the "best" way to do the job, but I am pleased with the results. I apologize for the length of this post.
I am not an expert in painting telephones or other things, so I got a lot of help from this thread within the Rotary Phone Forum. Many thanks to the forum! This is a great resource.
The paint on my Galion was in pretty bad shape when I acquired it, so I determined that it would need to be repainted. I stripped it with a product I found at Home Depot—Citristrip Stripping Gel. I was surprised at how easy this was to use and how well it worked. It stripped a layer or two (I could see the phone had been repainted before—not very well) of black paint almost effortlessly—wipe on/wait/wipe off. Underneath, what I assume was the original paint was only a little more difficult and cleaned up easily with the Citristrip and some rubbing with #0000 steel wool. See photo 1.
As for the painting itself, building on the advice in this thread, I went and talked with some folks at a nearby auto body shop. They gave me good advice and directed me to their supplier (Pro Finishes Plus, which has stores throughout the East Coast). Their advice was consistent and they were able to help me with actual products. Here is a summary of what I learned:
1. Use serious metal-painting products and techniques. They recommended an initial coat of a high quality self-etching primer, followed by a second coat of a compatible acrylic primer, and finally two or more coats of acrylic enamel paint. Here are the products I used:
DuPont Etch Primer A-4119S (pricey at $20+)
DuPont QuickPrime A-4240S (also pricey)
Rust-Oleum Acrylic Enamel, Black, Semi-gloss finish (from AutoZone)
2. The preferred method of application is with professional paint spraying equipment. Since I do not have this, I bought the products in spray cans. (I would have bought a DuPont black auto body paint but it was only available in gallon cans and required a sprayer.)
3. I chose semi-gloss black paint because (1) the Bakelite handset is not super glossy and I want the body and the handset to match of course; and (2) I think this sheen is about right for a phone of this vintage. I could be wrong on that point because I don't have any specific data. Anyway, flat and high gloss paints are also available.
4. Mask off all the holes in the body of the telephone. This includes the plunger holes in the cradle as well as any and all screw holes.
5. I followed the instructions on the paint cans carefully. The primers were easy to work with. They went on smoothly and evenly. Note that the instructions on the acrylic primer state, "sanding is required if the primer has been allowed to dry more than 24 hours." I did some sanding with steel wool to smooth out the primer coat. I was feeling pretty good about the process at this point.
6. I had more difficulty with the black paint than with the primers. I found that technique really matters, especially how close you hold the can to the work and how fast you move the spray. While I "knew" this, I had to teach my hands and that took practice. Also, getting an even coat is significantly complicated by the shape of the telephone. All those angles create the potential for overspray to strike different parts of the phone. I found that my initial results were uneven in places (I admit to being a stickler about these things). I found that the overspray caused a dulling of the semi-gloss finish and a mild leather-like appearance in places. I did not notice these imperfections at first and they only became obvious as I got more sensitive to the matter of technique.
7. I did not hesitate to take more #0000 steel wool to the bad areas once dry, even smoothing them down to the primer in some cases, and then repainting. It took many sessions in my makeshift spray booth before I was satisfied. See photo 2.
8. I ended up buying a second can of the Rust-Oleum paint before I was finished. As I got down to around ¼ of the original paint remaining, I convinced myself that my results were getting poorer. I attributed this to things like: reduced effectiveness of the propellant, possible nozzle deformation, possibly diluted proportions in the "ingredients" within the can as the paint was being depleted. This may have been my imagination, but I felt much better about the process when I was using a new can of paint! In any case, it is very important to always keep the nozzle clean, and to keep shaking that can!
9. None of the people I spoke with advocated "baking" the enamel. They all said that baking would, at best, only accelerate the curing of the paint, but would have no effect on the finished result. I have no basis for an opinion on this, but it did save me from having to convince my wife to let me put the newly painted phone in the oven! I am not in a hurry, so allowing the paint to cure for a few weeks is not a challenge for me. I only have time to work on the phone in spurts anyway.
No doubt there are things I could have done better, but I am pleased with the results. The finish (after curing) is hard and seems to be pretty durable. I think it captures the essence of this beautiful phone. The next phase is to reassemble the pieces, all cleaned and restored, and get this Galion back "on the air."
Looking over this thread after being accused of cooking after mealtime by my wife last night gave me a kick!
In reality, the item cooking in the over was the handset off my recently acquired Imperial phone. Yum! The look on her face when she saw what my "snack" was!
I kept the temperature down to 150, but then kept it on for 3 hours, and it seemed to do a god job. I wasn't brave enough to use a higher temperature, though I would probably have gotten away with it on the Imperial's bakelite handset...
Oh, the look on her face when she saw what I was cooking :D
Makes me wonder - what is the best recipe for cooking a handset. Wrap it in bacon before cooking, bake it in onion soup? Lathered in mushrooms? What sort of marinade would be best?
Dave
Yeah I'm thinking what with the cost of electricity propane there, you could easily have had some french onion soup in there as well!
Friends of ours were in Europe this past May-June and she ordered French Onion Soup in Paris which brought strange looks. Apparently it is just "Onion Soup" there!
Terry
Ok, I must have made a basic error, not sure why this "honeycomb" or "crazing" occurred on this metal finger wheel. I painted it with primer before I left for work and brought it in when I got home in the wee hours of the morning. I use a "paint box" (large cardboard box) to paint parts in because I have no other workspace. Since that's done outside on the porch, it's subject to the ambient temps and moisture, so I'm guessing that it had something to do with it being damp and cold out. The primed finger wheel looked fine, it was when I went to spray on the gloss that this occurred.
Greg,
I have had that sort of thing happen when the metal surface was too cold. I painted a candlestick outside once and wanted to scream as I watched the paint crumbling like that. You could always sell the finger wheel as artwork ;D
Larry
If anyone here wants their metal glass bead blasted contact me and I will do it for the cost of postage. I blasted an AE type 43 and the finish was better than the 302 I sanded. I am thinking about blasting the 302 and re spraying it....
Quote from: LarryInMichigan on March 19, 2013, 05:13:36 PM
Greg,
I have had that sort of thing happen when the metal surface was too cold. I painted a candlestick outside once and wanted to scream as I watched the paint crumbling like that. You could always sell the finger wheel as artwork ;D
Larry
Nah, I'll just slap it with paint stripper again and start over. I guess it never really warmed up enough when I brought it inside last night. It was frosty out when I got off work last night and the house heat is turned off when Anita goes to bed, so the house was chilly too. Maybe I'll bake it at a low temp after I prime it next time.
Quote from: cello973 on March 19, 2013, 05:30:20 PM
If anyone here wants their metal glass bead blasted contact me and I will do it for the cost of postage. I blasted an AE type 43 and the finish was better than the 302 I sanded. I am thinking about blasting the 302 and re spraying it....
Glass bead blasting means no tedious stripping and sanding? I may take you up on that. I have a few metal phones could possibly need that.
Quote from: Brinybay on March 19, 2013, 05:43:10 PM
Quote from: cello973 on March 19, 2013, 05:30:20 PM
If anyone here wants their metal glass bead blasted contact me and I will do it for the cost of postage. I blasted an AE type 43 and the finish was better than the 302 I sanded. I am thinking about blasting the 302 and re spraying it....
Glass bead blasting means no tedious stripping and sanding? I may take you up on that. I have a few metal phones could possibly need that.
Anytime.... Also no crazy priming.
Vince...is this something you do professionally? ...thanks...Doug
Harbor Freight has a pretty reasonably-priced media blasting cabinet and a blaster, should be more than adequate for hobbyist use. It would be a nice addition to the shop inventory if stripping and painting phone cases was a frequent task. Besides, blasting's kinda fun.
Doug, Not for a living, just for hobby. i purchased the blast cabinet at harbor freight last year just to use it for my ailment commonly known as antique telephonitis. ;D
Professionally i'm in telecom since 1982
Quote from: baldopeacock on March 20, 2013, 10:10:31 PM
Harbor Freight has a pretty reasonably-priced media blasting cabinet and a blaster, should be more than adequate for hobbyist use. It would be a nice addition to the shop inventory if stripping and painting phone cases was a frequent task. Besides, blasting's kinda fun.
Is this what you use? http://tinyurl.com/bt5wkoe (http://tinyurl.com/bt5wkoe)
There's a smaller blast cabinet @ Harbor Freight, which is the one I thought would be large enough for phone work.
http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasive-blast-cabinet-42202.html
My father and I built one (on a budget) out of plywood, lined with sheet steel - mostly scrap materials - in the main work area, when I was a kid. Bought the gravity-flow blaster and designed the home-brew cabinet to sit on top of the hopper, with a screen in it to sift out the major chunks of debris before they could fall into the hopper with the rest of the sand. It worked just fine. He used it for years.
Wanted to ask a few questions about painting metal phones. I have the paint stripped off a 302 phone, it's down to a gun metal color. I used paint stripper and it took off most of the paint but where I wet sanded lightly with 600 grain paper it's a silvery color, does the whole phone need to be sanded to the shiny metal? Also other than hot water do I need to clean phone with anything else before I prime it? And from what I gathered reading the posts previously you prime it sand rough spots and prime again if needed, then apply coats of paint and then bake it in oven at about 220 for 2 hrs? And hope it turns out as nice as the other phones posted here. Anything else I should know or try? Thanks for the advice.
600 grit may be overkill for surface prep even if you are using lacquer. Paints like some "tooth" to stick to, for an enamel paint I would use 320 and 400 should be good for a lacquer. Also use a primer in the same color as the paint you are going to use if possible if not try to get as close as possible (e.g. use black primer for a black paint job, use black or dark red primer for a dark blue paint etc.)
I would probably prep with 320 grit, clean with Windex, wipe with tack rag, prime and then paint with black lacquer for something like a typical metal 302 case - should look fine when done and honestly most of the imperfections are going to come from painting technique. (I ASSume that the cases were originally painted with lacquer, but I don't have any actual knowledge - my knowledge of spray bomb technique comes from fixing up rusty old car parts. They might have been some kind of enamel; hopefully someone else will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.)
Well luckily I didn't use the sandpaper a whole lot and this is why I'm using a $10 phone as my first project haha. Thanks for the info and I agree paint techniques will tell the story. If all else fails buy more paint stripper and start again right. :D
I´ve been wading through this topic, because of a question that has been nagging at me for a while now. I Always try to avoid repainting. I´d rather leave the old paint on. Resprayed phones look too new to me. Too good, IMHO.
Furthermore, a lot of the metal phones I have are handpainted, not sprayed. To correctly restore such I Phone, I would have to handpaint it, not spray it. I didn´t see any comment on handpainting in this thread (or did I miss it).
Does anybody have experience with that? What paints do you use for handpainting? Hammerite?
Does anybody have any thoughts on handpainting vs spraying?
Quote from: Matilo Telephones on November 17, 2013, 08:58:59 AM
I've been wading through this topic, because of a question that has been nagging at me for a while now. I Always try to avoid repainting. I'd rather leave the old paint on. Resprayed phones look too new to me. Too good, IMHO.
Furthermore, a lot of the metal phones I have are handpainted, not sprayed. To correctly restore such I Phone, I would have to handpaint it, not spray it. I didn't see any comment on handpainting in this thread (or did I miss it).
Does anybody have experience with that? What paints do you use for handpainting? Hammerite?
Does anybody have any thoughts on handpainting vs spraying?
I have not seen any threads about hand painting but I haven't real all the topics on the forum. A quick search found this post about hand painting leaving brush marks.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3140.msg42031#msg42031
Have you painted any phones by hand and if so, what did you use, what kind of brush or applicator, and how did you thin the paint to get away from brush marks? Or did you sand them out after painting? Most people use rattle can or compressed air sprayers to paint, that or powder coating. I'm interested in knowing how you do it.
I haven´t painted whole phones yet, but I did paint small parts. Used hamerite with a little thinner (I think, or terpentine).
I did paint other metal things with hammerite. Using it fresh out of the tin, without any thinner, is a little to thick for my liking. It leaves very thick brush strokes.
I used to do model building and had good smooth results with enamel paints, like humbrol. Used the softest brushes I could find and thinned the paint only slightly. It musn´t get too runny.
But for a metal Phone I do not want it too smooth. On orignal paint coats you can see very slight undulations in the paint of the brush strokes. That would be the effect I was looking for.
Plastic phones would be another matter. They should be very smooth. Those I would spraypaint. But I have net spraypainted a Phone.
I did spraypaint some older metal phones. Just stripped the paint with a painstripper, then smoothed down some of the oxidation spots with a brass wire brush. No sanding or something. Blemishes in the metal that were there when the Phone left the factory I left in place. Primer and carpaint (black) from a can.
Quote from: Matilo Telephones on November 17, 2013, 08:58:59 AM
Furthermore, a lot of the metal phones I have are handpainted, not sprayed.
Which ones are those?
Several variants of early W28's (not all). Ericsson 1920's wallphones. An ZB/SA 19 made by T&N. Possibly some more. I'd have to check.
I only paint metal phones when they are rusty or missing significant areas of paint. After stripping the phone, I use several coats of semi-gloss spray paint, baking the phone between coats at the highest setting possible. I then sand the phone using a high grade steel wool #000.then #0000,or Mirlon 1500 then 2500 to remove the glossy shine. I then polish with Novus #2. It gives a more realistic finish.
Also, when stripping paint from metal I use Klean Strip Aircraft Remover. It is pretty powerful stuff. Avoid Rustoleum Aircraft Remover. It apparently does not do anything.
Greg -
What temperature is "the highest setting possible"? Presumably you are baking in your kitchen oven? Most of them can easily exceed 400 degrees.
How long do you bake it?
Bill
Mine goes up to 500. I have not set my oven on fire at 500, but your results may vary! I have had very good results with 350, however, so that is probably a better recommendation. Make sure the paint has dried first. Bake each coat separately. Make sure your wife is not home. I bake for 20 minutes and then shut the oven off and let the oven and phone part cool gradually. When I use lower temperatures, like 200, I have noticed that the phones are more prone to dings and wear when sanding/polishing. If the phone has a paper tag you may have to use a lower temperature such as 250.
I had an interesting result one time.... I had a 211 and I put the parts in my oved to try to "Bake" the paint off.... wound up with a molten mess.... be careful with those old metal phones.... they aren't all steel.... Pot metals to be sure....W.E. was good about that!