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TRIMLINE issue

Started by tommycam, April 29, 2016, 07:15:55 PM

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poplar1

#15
Quote from: Jack Ryan on May 03, 2016, 01:04:33 AM
In the original post is this: "The dial tone came on and I was able to dial out, but the ringer did not work."

Surely, the dial pulse contact must be working.

Jack


Jack, thanks for pointing that out. So apparently it will work if the ringer is disconnected (yellow wire not connected at the wall).

Original post also said:
This time, a dial tone came on and the ringer worked. It was able to receive call too.  However, the dial tone was constant and would not dial out.


That said, it might still be a good idea to disconnect the ringer (by not connecting the yellow wire at the wall) or to check to make sure the ringing capacitor is wired correctly.

Sorry for missing this important point.
The fact that the slate (gray) and slate/red (gray and red) ringer wires were disconnected -- rather than tied down to vacant terminals, or insulated and stored -- should have been a red flag that someone in the past may have miswired the set.

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Jack Ryan

No offence.

I just wondered why we were checking the dial pulse contacts when they were stated as working.

Carry on.

Jack

poplar1

So what effect does a shorted or bypassed capacitor have?

"Ring trip" -- where the phone answers after a partial ring, then busies out the line (like a phone off the hook) -- OK.

What effect does it have on dialing? Of course, a rotary phone cannot dial out if another phone is off-hook on the same line, but does a P-type ringer directly across the line have the same effect of keeping the phone off-hook?  Does it depend on what type line?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

Tom, sorry that I didn't grasp what Jack just pointed out -- that it was dialing out whilst the ringer was not working. The dial only stopped dialing when the ringer started working, right?

This probably indicates a problem with the ringer circuit.

It might help if you could provide a picture of the wiring inside the base.

The slate (gray) and slate-red (gray with red stripes) ringer wires should either be connected to screws with no other wires on them, or they should have plastic "boots" on them and not be connected anywhere. The black ringer wire is probably on the G terminal along with the yellow wire from the line cord (or line cord socket). Where is the red ringer wire connected?

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

Here is the BSP from about the same year as your dial (1969), from the TCI library:
http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2762-502-303-101-i1-reference-220a-hand-tel-set-w-ac1-ad1-bases-tl

Is your base marked AD1 on the bottom.
If so, the above BSP, on page 11, Figure 15 shows the incoming line (wires from the socket where the line cord plugs into the base) as follows:

Green to L1
Red    to  L2
Yellow to G
White to  3
Black  to  1

The ringer connects as follows:

Black to G
Red to K
Slate (taped and stored)
Slate-Red (taped and stored)
Blue to B (or taped and stored)

The slate (gray) wire from the hookswitch connects to A. (There may also be an added black wire from A to L2)

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

rdelius

if your ringer capacitor is shorted you will not be able to dial out.if the ringer impedance is high enough, the set might not seize the line when first connected but might ring trip when called in.Trimline dials have only pules contacts.Make sure the inpulse cam has not slipped past the contacts and when dialing moves freely

andre_janew

My trimline has the black wire from the ringer on L1, not G.  However, the ringer does work.

tommycam

Thank you all for the help as this board is THE BEST!

Here are the images of the inside of the base:





The plastic covering the loose wires does look like somebody took them out.

I'm going to study the helpful suggestions above, and Poplar no Sorry is necessary. You have been a tremendous help!

HarrySmith

One thing that always strikes me when I open one of these is the mess of wires just jumbled & stuffed on top off the network. I always think back to the old wood phones where the wires were all nicely laced and run very neatly with retaining mounts to keep them in place, very neat, very professional looking.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

tommycam

Quick update.

I did disconnect the yellow wire from the wall and the phone DID dial out, but no ringer.

Thank you guys,
Tom

poplar1

Quote from: andre_janew on May 03, 2016, 05:33:51 PM
My trimline has the black wire from the ringer on L1, not G.  However, the ringer does work.

Moving the black ringer wire from G to L1 is typically done whenever the phone is converted to modular, just as it is done in 500s. Instead of connecting the green and yellow spade-tipped leads to the same screw terminal at the wall connecting block, the ringer lead is moved inside the phone, since there is no way to have two wires on the same gold pin inside the modular plug.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

Quote from: tommycam on May 03, 2016, 11:21:29 PM
Quick update.

I did disconnect the yellow wire from the wall and the phone DID dial out, but no ringer.

Thank you guys,
Tom

The wiring does look original, i.e., not rearranged. So the consensus seems to be that the capacitor (soldered to A and K) has a short. The capacitor can be replaced easily.

The only other possibility that comes to mind is that blue ringer lead on B, but that might be a problem only if the plugs on your handset cord have 5 gold (or silver) pins rather than 4. If it has 5, then the blue ringer lead isn't supposed to be connected, but should be insulated and stored.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

tommycam

Poplar,

Thank you again!!!

I'm going to double check everything you and the others said before changing the capacitor. I just want to make sure I exhaust all the suggestions.  It's frustrating because I feel I like we were so close.

I'm going to need a couple of days to really study it and I'll get back to the board.

I can't Thank You enough for your patience and kindness.
Tom