The customer is always right?

[Sargeguy]

I sold my pink 554 to a customer for $100.  The thing rang when I bought it and I used it in my kitchen for a time, and I never re-wired it. Customer told me she had a regular old phone line.  I ship out the phone.  She claims it won't ring.  She also mentions that she just paid to have her service installed in her new apartment and $45 for the first month.  I ask if she has VOIP or POTS and she says she has a "regular phone line"  from the phoneco.  Are they still doing new installs of POTS or have they mostly switched to digital???   I had to wrangle with Verizon to keep my POTS when they installed FIOS internet. 

[Sargeguy]

I asked her to send it back and I will refund her $$$.  She is upset because she paid for a land line with the intention of using this phone.  This is why I got out of the refurbished phone business.  I sent her a wiring schematic and told her to rewire it and get back to me.

[HarrySmith]

I would ask her to try another phone. Maybe the problem is with the install, not the phone?

[AE_Collector]

Sarge, is there any chance that your kitchen jack has a ground to it from partyline days and by co-incidence your pink 554 was set up for grounded ringing so it rang at your place but not at hers since she doesn't have a grounded jack?

Terry

[Sargeguy]

Its got to be her line.  When I asked if she informed her TELCO that she intended to use an old phone on her new line, she was rather vague and defensive.   The problem is that she blames me for the problem because I asked her what type of line she had she answered "a regular old telephone line" and I told her it should work.  Then she went out and ordered new service from her TELCO.  If she told me what she intended, I could have told her what to ask the installers.  I know when I upgraded to FIOS they were trying to push VOIP as an alternative to "Copper" and I know VOIP can be problematic.  Who knows what her telco is up to.

Never had party line ringing at this address.  Worked when I bought it on two NYNEX installed jacks.

[Doug Rose]

Its got to be her line.  When I asked if she informed her TELCO that she intended to use an old phone on her new line, she was rather vague and defensive.   The problem is that she blames me for the problem because I asked her what type of line she had she answered "a regular old telephone line" and I told her it should work.  Then she went out and ordered new service from her TELCO.  If she told me what she intended, I could have told her what to ask the installers.  I know when I upgraded to FIOS they were trying to push VOIP as an alternative to "Copper" and I know VOIP can be problematic.  Who knows what her telco is up to.

Never had party line ringing at this address.  Worked when I bought it on two NYNEX installed jacks.

Sarge...the joy of selling phones on eBay. Last time I had an issue with an irate buyer, it turned out one jack had tip and ring flopped. I was on the phone with him for a good two hours, he had an extremely hard time following simple instructions. It works in his den, but "he bought it for his living room!!!" When we finally got it working, he told me I deserved negative feedback for selling such sh*t on eBay. No good deed goes unpunished. I sweated out 60 days, no feedback was left at all...good luck....Doug

[AE_Collector]

Never had party line ringing at this address.  Worked when I bought it on two NYNEX installed jacks.

Just because you have never had party line ringing there, that doesn't rule out the possibility. If the house is less than 20 or so years old AND you have owned it since it was new then the liklihood is even less but still not out of the question. If the yellow wire of the jack is connected to a lead in the station wire, the other end of that lead might be connected to ground at the protector. Protectors always have ground at them, that's what they do.

In this scenario a phone wired for party line (grounded) ringing would ring when connected to your jack and wouldn't ring when connected to the majority of other jacks out there.

I know it is a long shot but I'm just listing a possibility that comes to mind.

Terry

[Sargeguy]

Thanks.  The jack was installed about 15 years ago by one of my friends who worked for NYNEX at the time.  He would stopfor lunch when he was in the neighborhood and install new jacks for the heck of it.  I have jacks in every room except the bathroom (where you really need one come to think of it).  The customer is returning the phone, which she says won't dial.

[Doug Rose]

If it won't ring and now won't break DT, she has a problem with a flopped pair on tip and ring. Have her just change the wiring in the jack, it will take 5 minutes, change the green with the red or the white blue with the blue white pending on how new her wiring is....Doug

[Sargeguy]

I am beyond that.  I offered her a full refund, and said I would fix it and refund her return shipping if the phone did not work when it arrived.  She responded by filing a PayPAl claim against me, saying "she is running out of time".  She still wants it fixed though because she loves the phone.  I am now officially ticked off.  I just want the phone back and this woman out of my life.

[Sargeguy]

From PayPal dispute:

From Buyer - S___________________
2/13/2011 08:48 PST
I directly asked if phone works-ringing and able to be answered. It does not. While I appreciate the info the seller is giving on fixing the phone, it is still not in working order (which was guaranteed). Time is running out with Paypal, so I wanted to have this on file. I am still VERY willing to work out situation with seller, as I have always wanted to keep the phone. I would like a full refund plus the cost of return shipping or the item just fixed.

Gregory Sargeant denied S__________'s request for a $100.00 USD refund.
2/13/2011 13:34 PST
From Seller - Gregory Sargeant
2/13/2011 13:34 PST
As already stated, I will issue a full refund if you return the phone.

From Seller - Gregory Sargeant
2/13/2011 13:48 PST
The antique telephone has worked in my kitchen perfectly for several months. It worked when I shipped it to buyer. I offered to accept it as a return for a full refund or repair it if that was the problem. I will give her a full refund when I recieve the phone back, as I have already stated in my correspondence with her and my warranty. If the phone is not working as she says, I will refund her shipping. if it is working, then I will not refund her shipping cost. I shipped it to her for free in the first place.

From Buyer - S__________
2/13/2011 14:28 PST
Whether it works in his kitchen is neither here nor there. I was told it would work for me. I did exactly as I said I would and connected a phone line, NOT a cable line. If seller was aware of 'newfangled' phone lines, that should certainly have been brought up if selling in good faith. Getting a refund of $100 is not really helpful to me-it leaves me without a phone and stuck with a $70 installation fee AND a $45 monthly phone bill that I will probably have to pay to cancel!

[Sargeguy]

Here is previous correspondence:

BUYER-Hello-
You had said that the black wire serves no function, then said to switch the black and red wires...confusing.
Here's the deal. I bought a phone that is supposed to dial AND ring. It does not do half of what it is supposed to do. You also promised I could return it if it doesn't work to my satisfaction. It doesn't.
So-do you want me to return it for a refund or do you want me to return it and have you fix it then send it back?
I don't know anything about phones and don't want to mess with wires that I don't know anything about. If I wanted to do that, I would have bought a $20 fixer upper phone.
Let me know how you want to proceed.
Thanks.

ME-Hello,
That wire is supposed to be taped off, it serves no function in your model phone. If the line isn't the problem (not VOIP, fiber optic, or digital) then ringer polarity is the second most common cause of a phone not ringing. Take a look at these wiring schematics. They are the most common wiring schemes used today for 500 phones. One is for a 425A network the other is a 425B. You can determine which one you have by looking on the side of your network where it should be printed. Otherwise the letters on the side should match one of these diagrams. Reverse the black and red wires from the ringer and see if that helps. If you feel up to it you may try to rewire it to match that scheme. I don't know what configuration was used on your phone because it was working when I hooked it up so I didn't mess with it.
Thanks

BUYER-see the black wire at the bottom next to the where the pink cord comes out of the bottom? it has yellow tape on it; it's not attached to anything but seems like it should be. ? when we call the phone, you can 'answer' and talk, but it doesn't ring so obviously there's no way to know someone is calling.  when it should be ringing, nothing is moving or vibrating...

ME-There are more than one black wires. That will not solve the problem. You say that the phone will not dial either, which is diagnostic: you do not have the right type of phone line. When you said that you had had "a regular old phone line" I thought you had a regular old phone line. Apparently you have a new-fangled phone line, one which is not pulse enabled or capable of sending enough juice down the line to make most old phones ring. In the past 18 months or so phone companys have been doing away with old-style lines and using digital on new installations. Did you inform the phone company that you intended to use an old phone? You can return it for a refund.
Thanks

BUYER The phone DOES dial. I specifically asked the phone company if I could use a rotary phone, and they said YES. And I can-it will dial out and answer, like I told you, but the phone itself does not ring.
That's not a problem with the line; that's a problem with the phone.

ME-I will return it to you if that's what you prefer. Please send a shipping address.
Will you be reimbursing return shipping?
MY address:

Greg Sargeant
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX, RI

My policy is that you may return any non-working phone for free. Working phones you pay the S&H. Please be sure to pack it so that the handset does not hit the body of the phone, I don't cover damage that occurs during shipping.
Thanks

BUYER-You know, I really just want to get this fixed.
Will you fix it? Or will you reimburse if I have it fixed here?(of course I'll send invoice?)

ME-Hi- I will look at it when I receive it and if it it is not working, I can fix it and ship it back to you for free. If I do not find a problem when I hook it up, then there won't be anything I can do because it would indicate most likely that the ringing function is not compatible with your line. One thing I did not think of yet is trying a different modular phone cord from another phone ( if you have one) to see if that works. So if that does not work and you would like to send it back for me to look at for fixing ,please go ahead and do so at the address in the previous e-mail. Thanks

BUYER-I found a repair shop that will look at it tomorrow. If they can do it, and it's reasonable, I'll just do that. I am about to open my shop and want to have it ready in time.
If they can't or it's too expensive, I'll send it back to you to repair via UPS.
Either way I will let you know.
Thanks

[gpo706]

Far too much hassle on your part Sarge, I'd just get her to return it give a refund.

I've had worse run-ins with bay sellers, and at the end of the day you cut your losses and discard them.

[Sargeguy]

I have been trying to give her a refund.  She doesn't want to send me the phone.  I think she wants me to pay for her phone installation or something.  I didn't realize there were shops that fix 554s around.  Especially ones that are open on Sunday.

[Sargeguy]

Here is the latest:

ME-Hello,
You can send it to me for repair or return it to me for a refund. Once you have someone else work on it you will void the warranty and I will not accept it for a refund or repair. These are my policies as I have already stated in previous correspondence. Let me know what you decide.
Thanks


BUYER-You never said no one else could work on it, but that's fine.

You know, I'm pretty much over it at this point.

You sent a phone that does NOT work. I know this because I did use your diagram and see that some of the wires are not where they are supposed to be. So it's impossible that you sent it in perfect working order. Whether or not it can be repaired, I won't know until I take it to a shop as I don't want to mess with these wires that look like they are all original and ready to fall apart at any moment.

It has spots on the top of it, so it was not cleaned.

I honestly don't trust that if I send you the phone at this point that I will be fully reimbursed. You've already thrown several clues out that indicate the direction this is going, and I'm not going to be out a phone and the $$. Who is to say that you won't say it is working on 'your' line (as if you have some special phone line that I couldn't have) and that the phone was never not working? Then you refund whatever you please...it just is not sitting well with me.

I have my own business and have never, ever made a transaction so difficult for someone.

I'll keep the phone and have it repaired myself.

ME-I'm sorry if you feel that this has been a difficult transaction. I discounted the phone by 20%, shipped it for free, offered to repair it for free, and offered a full refund if the phone didn't work, a full refund of the cost if it did. I cannot see what else I can do. The phone worked perfectly in my home, was cleaned and polished before shipping. The wiring schematic I sent is one of many configurations that were used over the years and is the one currently recommended to be used if your current wiring scheme does not work. I have been restoring phones for several years and have always been able to resolve any issue (only had one other) to the satisfaction of the customer. Good Luck with your phone, if I can be of any further assistance let me know.

Now keep in mind that this woman, despite claiming she will keep the phone, has not canceled her claim against me and my PayPPal account is still frozen until I deposit the $100.