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Telephone quality. A comparison.

Started by dsk, April 25, 2011, 12:39:06 PM

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dsk

Everything was better before  ??? What happend in the 60ies to the 80ies ???

Not that simple, earlier this year I got my first "modern" American telephones.
The 1967 W.E. 500 was impressing. Not too "high tech", just solid, well designed and reliable, The very best carbon microphone telephone I ever have tested. :D
The Norwegian telephones changed that year, the old 1953 (With W.E. 302 characteristic quality. (But actually thermoplastic)).  The 1967 model had printed circuit board, 2 transistors, dynamic microphone, and a warbling electronic ringer.
(This was the one and only std. telephone until 1980 ies, when our monopoly became history.)

The 1967 model came with "new" technology transistors, because the carbon capsules was worn-out, and the amplifier would make it able to transferee over loooong bad lines. (To compare:The 500 tends to be less good here, and the 302 should be prefer ed.) The rotary dial mechanism was almost equal to the 1920 ies versions. Just because it has prooven its quality.

When I got my Automatic Electric 80E some days ago, i thought I had got something between the 500, and the Norwegian 1967. A little fix up, a new fingerstop, cleaning the contacts, tuning the rotary speed, and yes it worked!
A few calls later the hookswitch started to fool me, and the dial did so too.

I started to compare the 3 telephones. The 500, and the 1967 has a metal base plate with solidly attached feet's, the 80E has a plastic base with smaller rubber feet's...OK shouldn't matter the 3 may be equal that far. The rotary dial is attached to the base, again plastic on the 80E, metal on the others. The hook mechanism is a part of the circuit board on the 80E and the 1967, but separate unit on the 500. Simpler assembly, and no risk for mixing terminals could be a pre. On the other hand the switch could be easily replaced on the 500.BUT
yes it is a but, the switch on the 500 and the 1967 would hardly not need more than cleaning, the 80E is weaker, and has a lot of plastic mechanisms, and a tiny little spring!  :(
What about the rotary?  The 1967 keeps on the noisy clicking but always working 1920ies patent. The 500, A little bit more sophisticated, more silent but still an "ever lasting" design. The 80E has a smooth silent mechanism, with tiny contacts, and easy to assemble parts, but the anti clicking gear, with a plastic spring and a friction lever to engage the pulsing contact on the return are not working properly, and I am considering to clean it in an ultrasonic cleaner,  :-\  On the other hand, I could use the handset with cord on my 554, and probably use the printed board in another frankenphone... :-\

Conclusion: The 500, and the 1967 was made to last, when the telephonecompanies could understand the development against customer owned phones the cost was more important, and the lifetime could be calculated considerably shorter,  (but still much better than today).

(With a max of 6 photos, I skipped the well known 500 photos)

dsk

rdelius

The 80E was designed when the telco knew deregulation was near and there was no reason to keep making expensive well built telephones . I live in GTE country and they were crap.The hookswitch mounted on the circuit board was troublesome. The plastic anti click spring on the dial was troublesome.The dial was not that bad but why did the change the main shaft so that the older fingerwheels would not clamp properly. the newer metal fingerwheels would fit the older dials though.I do like the ringer though.
I still think 500 sets and older type 80 sets were some of the best built telephones produced anywhere.

dsk

I think you are right!
Buy the way, The 1967 tended to stop working when you slided it from the table, and fell on the floor. This was not good enough, and it was modified. (a little slack on the coil wires on the transformer, and coil).
Later changes was only to improve production. Some plastic bearings on the dial brake rotor(??). A MOV instead of a zigzag spark gap on the printed board.

dsk

GG



The difference is, when the telcos owned the equipment, they wanted it built to last, and that's what they got.  With deregulation came the "consumer electronics" approach of making things cheaper and less durable, and that's what we ended up with.  Today the average cellphone is in use for about 18 months and ends up in a landfill. 

80-E was pretty good compared to what people have today. 

Oh, and you got a rare one there with a party line / frequency ringer.  First 80-E I've ever seen with one of those. 


dsk

The ringer is 20 Hz and the telco delivers 25 Hz. I tuned it as good as possible, and it rings nice :D What i didn't know was my KXT616 delivers 20 Hz.
:( I fooled my selves, but  :D it works.
Very interesting, never seen such ringer before.

dsk

Jim Stettler

Technology  note: WE was  producing some IC based Trimlines sets in 1968 and beyond.
Most of the ones I have come across are mid 70's tho.
Jim

The IC (Integrated Circuit) was used to generate the TT tones.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Dennis Markham

#6
Looks like we are "back on the air" with this thread.  I was able to view dsk's posts.  I deleted his last one and low and behold the rest of this topic is intact.  

Here is what dsk wrote.  (I saved it before I deleted it).

I ended up with disassembling cleaning and assembling the 80E dial, now it seems to work well.  Another pre with this one, the easy changeable front label. I have been experimenting with the design, and printed out on colored paper.
Even possible to make reverse dial in a few minutes.

The problem may have been with the photo that was uploaded.  

Thank you to DougPav for suggesting this to me.  Now why didn't I think of that?

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.  

~Dennis

dsk

#7
Thank you for helping.
The actual pictures are atleast here:



dsk

bellsystemproperty

18 months for a cell phone is even pushing it, especially with the glass touch screen ones. You drop an iPhone once and you're lucky if the screen  does not crack. No matter how well one treats their electronics they are bound to drop it at least once.

I found a cell phone in one of those electronic recycling bins brand new and it was a prepaid with over $100 of calling credit, working and everything. It's amazing what people waste.
C*NET # 794-5953 (KYLE)

GG



DSK:   Good job redoing the facemat for the 80E there.  I never thought, in my wildest million years, that I would see an American phone properly redone to work in Oslo. 

Those harmonic ringers were unique to the US as far as I know.  The system was designed for rural party lines with as many as ten houses sharing a line: at least they all rang individually.  There was another element in that type of party line system, called an "SATT dial," which has an additional cam on the back with a set of contacts that are tripped by a screw placed in one of a number of holes in the cam.  The purpose of this was to automatically signal the identity of the station that was making a billable call, for billing purposes. 

The way that works is, when you're dialing 0 for Operator, an additional impulse is sent (presumably via ground) that is in sync with one of the dial pulses.  Thus you have ten dial pulses for Operator, any one of which can have an additional ground pulse associated with it.  The central office equipment interprets the signals to inform the operator which party on the line is calling. 

Very clever system, and one of the reasons the telcos did not want people messing with their phones: if the dial got out of adjustment (or if someone deliberately moved the little screw), calls would be billed to your neighbor down the street. 

dsk

#10
The dial face mod was quite easy. Black print from a normal printer on white or colored paper gives a nice result. Just to test, I made a fantasy layout. and a Swedish one too. 20 min exactly!
The fantasy layout; don't know if it ever has been used, but the Dialgizmo has it as an option.
dsk

dsk

#11
Now I'm satisfied with my AE80E.
Take a look here: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3033.msg60549#msg60549

I have probably (re)learned a lot about the term Quality.
As a collector made to last(serve) for ever could be a way of expressing high quality.
As a modern engineer, the best quality is the product which stops working after you throw it in the recycling container, but before it hits the container :D.

When we have that collectors telephone it is hardly not possible to choose a besttelephone, they were made with a special focus, design?? w will probably not agree. Function, long lines? 500/AE80E, not hat good. Short lines? 500/AE80E works well in medium and short lines, but on extremely long lines the 1967 does well, but you will get far too much sidetone on a short line. Maybe more like a 302.  Norway is a small country with many long lines, and only one std. telephone modell, the 1967 was a good one.

dsk