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KTAS telephone but wrong transmitter cap or???

Started by dsk, January 18, 2018, 02:29:28 PM

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dsk

This are for sale in Norway, I do not know how serious the seller is, but he has had others for sale during the last month, modest priced.  NOK 300 or about $38 or 39

https://goo.gl/PXJBM2

dsk

dsk

#1
I will not buy it, I'm just curious about the transmitter cap.

dsk

dsk

I ended up with buying, so within a week or so  :D   and I got spares with it. (same cost)
dsk

AE_Collector

The little numbers in the window are a way to mark the phone number on the phone which is easily redone if number changes or phone is removed and reinstalled elsewhere? Each window has room for 4 digits? So up to an 8 digit number?

Terry

poplar1

Window on right is for the call counter (message register).
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

AE_Collector

Well I wondered about that in the past but thought why would it be on the phone rather than at the CO. Unless it is recorded at the CO and also indicated on the phone as well. Dsk will have to tell us about the one in the left unless it is a Window only to write the number maybe.

Terry

dsk

That is one of the reasons I actually did go for this, it is designed in 1930, and Denmark was pretty late of getting automatic, Copenhagen had manual CB exchanges as late as 1978! https://goo.gl/GmyzYy

I do actually not now the Danish systems, but I was told that in Denmark they started to tax when you got off hook. 

Looking at the schematics for this phones, the counter is put in to circuit between tip and ground only when the dial is out of rest position. This may have been a kind of ground start via the 300 ohms coil in the counter.  I have to guess that it counted one digit for each time you dialed a number, not one for each digit.   

dsk

HarrySmith

It took 3 whole days to go from "I will not buy it" to "I ended up buying". Your Phoneitis must be weakening, it should have been the next day ;D
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

rdelius

I Thought that the counter connected to a "clock" circuit and recorded time units when in use

dsk

Quote from: HarrySmith on February 24, 2018, 07:00:39 AM
It took 3 whole days to go from "I will not buy it" to "I ended up buying". Your Phoneitis must be weakening, it should have been the next day ;D
Yes but I got 2 for tor 1, and together it should be at least one complete phone.

dsk

Quote from: rdelius on February 24, 2018, 09:23:18 AM
I Thought that the counter connected to a "clock" circuit and recorded time units when in use
The counter is disconnected when the dial is in rest position.

dsk

I have 2 ideas about how to make the counter working, I do not know if the 91k resistor will let the electrolytic capacitor get enough juice to work the counter, but this will not size the line.  Values has to be tuned in bout circuits. The idea is to have enough to let the counter count one on the first digit dialed, but not at the following digits.


My phone line has 24 only! The 400V capacitor is just because I found it in my basement.  Should at list be rated higher than voltage at ringing. 100V?


dsk

AE_Collector

#12
Lots of possibilities here I guess. I recall in the 1980's making long distance calls on a phone at a hotel in Rome and also a similar set up for long distance calls from Saudi Arabia to Home. A counter that incremented every so many seconds which was likely variable depending how LONG the distance was! I assume it was driven from the CO. Of course this determined what your cost was and in both instances it was on a phone used by the public but not really a Telephone Company Paystation, so quite likely just a way for the owner to determine approximately how much to charge me to cover his charges.p from the Telephone Company.

On a residential phone such as these that we are discussing, more likely just a single "unit" charge for a local call and possibly a certain number of local calls were included per month. But then, would this meter be to give the subscriber some idea how many he had used per month and if so how does he reset it or would he have to record the number at the end of he billing timeframe. The official peg count meter might be at the CO. Or...would the Telephone company come out to read the meters monthly or maybe the honour system where they call you to read the meter with maybe an occasional spot check to ensure you are being honest? And finally, this doesn't easily lend itself to a customer with extension phones!

Terry

Jim Stettler

Quote from: AE_Collector on February 24, 2018, 11:41:21 AM
Or...would the Telephone company come out to read the meters monthly or maybe the honour system where they call you to read the meter with maybe an occasional spot check to ensure you are being honest?

Terry
I have been told that the originally the phone company would come out to read these meters, This would be the sets that you have to remove the cover on.
Later, they made the meter window on the housing. After the meter window was in use, I think they started allowing the user to report the number.

The easiest way to do it with a meter window is to call the subscriber and ask them to read the meter number .

JMO,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

dsk

#14
Quote from: AE_Collector on February 24, 2018, 11:41:21 AM
Lots of possibilities here I guess. I recall in the 1980's making long distance calls on a phone at a hotel in Rome and also a similar set up for long distance calls from Saudi Arabia to Home. A counter that incremented every so many seconds which was likely variable depending how LONG the distance was! I assume it was driven from the CO. Of course this determined what your cost was and in both instances it was on a phone used by the public but not really a Telephone Company Paystation, so quite likely just a way for the owner to determine approximately how much to charge me to cover his charges.p from the Telephone Company.

On a residential phone such as these that we are discussing, more likely just a single "unit" charge for a local call and possibly a certain number of local calls were included per month. But then, would this meter be to give the subscriber some idea how many he had used per month and if so how does he reset it or would he have to record the number at the end of he billing timeframe. The official peg count meter might be at the CO. Or...would the Telephone company come out to read the meters monthly or maybe the honour system where they call you to read the meter with maybe an occasional spot check to ensure you are being honest? And finally, this doesn't easily lend itself to a customer with extension phones!

Terry
What you say is common sense, probably for Danes too.
I guess this counter, only counted the number of calls since it is disconnected when the dial is in rest position.

Here in Norway the counter was at the CO, and for a sudden fee you could get a counter at home following that counter. Here it was done by sending a 16 kHz beep for every step of the counter.

When I was a small kid a local call was one step, but when I started at school they added one step for each 3 minutes. Long distance had shorter time between the steps when that was automatic. Payphones used the same 16kHz signal for billing. But that was Norway!

It may be as Jim says in Denmark.  ??


dsk


Edit:


I got information from a Danish / American; David
The counters were activated once per call when the first number was dialed.  A meter reader visited the location, perhaps monthly, it may have been quarterly, to capture the meter reading for billing purposes.  This was when the "demi-automatisk" System was used.  In Copenhagen, the subscriber dialed the one or two digit prefix or central code and the operator would answer to get the rest of the number.  For example, C or 1 was for Central, the Indre By (city center) switchboard.  BE (23) was for the BElla, or Bellahøj central.  The exchange name announcement was later automated on a recording.  The calling subscriber verbally stated the rest of the number, eg. 24 13. The call was completed on the cord board.  Party line numbers ended in a letter, u, y, x and v. ... 

dsk