WE D1 Problems

pierced · January 30, 2019, 05:55:20 PM

I just completed wiring my W.E. D1 and am experiencing a couple of problems.
It has an E1 handset and 5F dial. All parts are marked for the 4th quarter of 1935. I made a "subset" using a small ITT ringer box and a 425E network. When I lift the handset I get a rather soft dial tone with what I'd describe as a faint hiss. The tone is nowhere nearly as loud as my A.E. 40. I can dial out and make a call but can barely hear the person on the other end. However the person I'm calling hears me very clearly. Bad receiver element?
Also, I'm certain that the ringer is wired correctly; Black to L1, Red to L2, Slate to K and Slate-Red to A, but it doesn't ring. Bad ringer? I'd be very grateful for any assistance.

Much Thanks,
Dave Pierce

..... · January 30, 2019, 06:09:04 PM

Welcome back Dave.

See your last post was in 2015. I'm sure you will get an answer to your question shortly. A lot of knowledgeable people here.

AL_as_needed · January 30, 2019, 06:26:35 PM

Hey Dave, I never claim to be an expert (I know very little compared to some here) but here are my suggestions. Check the receiver for sure against a known to be good one, or swap elements if you have extra. Your ringer wiring sounds correct assuming its a three wire ringer, check the bias spring?

I made a subset as well with a gutted WE 500 and also had to jump RR to L1, cannot recall why off the top of my head at present.

Key2871 · January 30, 2019, 07:04:20 PM

I suggest checking the dial for possible shorting the receiver.
Also check the element as suggested already.
As for the ringer, do you have a 500. Type set, check the ringer in a known working set. It sounds like its the receiver element or the dial.

pierced · January 31, 2019, 02:50:06 PM

Thanks so much for the welcome back and advice.
I do have the network jumper from RR to L1. Don't know what a bias spring is but there doesn't seem to be any type of spring on this 1969 ITT ringer. I believe that I do have another couple of ringers somewhere that I can try.
I removed the base cover and looked at the dial connections but there doesn't appear to be any wire making contact where it shouldn't. As far as trying another receiver element, I understand that I'll only be able to use another 557B. Is that correct? I used a rather large 18 gauge stranded wire for the jumpers from dial BB to switch W and dial Y to switch BK. Could that have any effect?
Thanks Again,
Dave

Key2871 · January 31, 2019, 03:02:53 PM

Dials have a contact that shorts the receiver so that dial clicks don't hurt your ear when you dial. If that contact stays closed and doesn't open after the dial stops it will effectively kill the receiver. Try looking at the R and GN on the network and see where they end up in your set.
Also the bias is a spring arm on the ringer between the gongs, there is an adjustment made with your finger to lower the bias spring. Looking at the ringer, look between the gongs and notice the step like notch, Is the little wire in the notch or out off to the side. Also those older ITT ringers sometimes used a weight on the striker for the gongs. If there is one, try to locate a different ringer that doesn't have one of those. I've found that those are a key problem with those ringers.

Ken

HarrySmith · January 31, 2019, 03:50:41 PM

I found a good picture of the bias spring in an old topic.

pierced · February 02, 2019, 10:44:51 AM

Harry, Thanks for the great photo of the bias spring.
Ken, the ITT ringer I was using was indeed one with a weight on the striker and no bias spring. I found a ringer without the weight and substituted it. Problem solved! It now rings very nicely. Unfortunately however the receiver problem persists. The R on the network runs to the R dial connection along with the red wire from the handset. The GN from the network runs to the GN switch connection but dial tone and voice are still very faint. Anything else to try?

Thanks,
Dave

Scott · February 02, 2019, 11:04:20 AM

I did have a problem like that with a princess phone. It turned out the contacts on the back of the dial were not separating when the dial was in the resting position. I had found a thread in the archives that mentioned that could be the problem. I can not find it now. To test that idea I hooked the phone up with the dial attached but not in place so I could see the back. Then I placed something non conductive between two of the contacts on the dial and it worked. The fix was to slightly bend one of the contacts so they would not touch with the dial in the resting position. I hoped my explanation makes sense. I will look again for the thread.

Scott K.

poplar1 · February 02, 2019, 11:34:23 AM

Quote from: Key2871 on January 31, 2019, 03:02:53 PM
Dials have a contact that shorts the receiver so that dial clicks don't hurt your ear when you dial. If that contact stays closed and doesn't open after the dial stops it will effectively kill the receiver. Try looking at the R and GN on the network and see where they end up in your set.

The WE 7C, 7D, and 9C dials short the receiver during dialing. However, earlier WE dials -- 2A, 2H, 4H, 5H, and 6A -- open the receiver (BB and W terminals) when dialing.

pierced · February 02, 2019, 03:07:15 PM

Once again, thanks to all for your input. I haven't solved the problem yet but have been experimenting with the dial contacts.
I am certain of this: the dial contacts must be in the positions that they are now, in order to get any dial tone at all. If an insulator is placed between any of the contacts, it kills the dial tone. The moment that the insulator is pulled out, the dial tone is restored.
Dave

Scott · February 03, 2019, 11:55:33 AM

Just to follow up on my post yesterday, this is the thread I mentioned.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19140.msg196650#msg196650

Sorry to hear it didn't fix your issue. All the best finding the problem

Scott K.

pierced · February 03, 2019, 03:26:17 PM

Scott,
Thanks so much for taking the time to find that thread. It was very interesting. I thought that cleaning the dial contacts was worth a try and I did so using a piece of blank 3"x 5" file card. Unfortunately it didn't solve the receiver problem. I guess my only recourse now is to get another 557B receiver.

Thanks Again,
Dave

poplar1 · February 03, 2019, 03:52:00 PM

Try connecting the handset from another phone -- such as your Automatic Electric model 40. Also, which diagram are you using to connect your 202 to the 425 network?

pierced · February 03, 2019, 07:07:30 PM

For the switch and dial connections in the base I used the color diagram "B & D Mount for 202 Dial Service" from the thread: "W.E. 102,202 and subset easy wiring diagrams"
For connections to the network I used the instructions from the thread: "Using a 425 network from a 500 for older phones"
Line cord: Red to L2
Green to L1

Desk set cord: Red to R
Green to GN
Yellow to L2
Black to C
Jumper L1 to RR on the network

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WE D1 Problems