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How do you read the date code on a WE Princess phone?

Started by Babybearjs, February 12, 2016, 12:44:56 PM

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Babybearjs

#15
the one I have right now is a CS-2702-BMG. I got it on ebay a few years ago and was surprised at the changes in base design... at that time, I didn't know about the updated version.... I thought they had kept the regular light inside. and to find out about the LED version.... disappointing.... now, my next question is... I was looking at BSP #502-110-102 Pg. 12 and wondering why the bell system didn't customize the princess a little more when used on a 1A1/1A2 system. they could have..... changed out the wedge lamp to a #2825 (12 Volt) bulb, moved the Grn wire from 1 to 2 on the term. Board (By-Passing the resistor) and tied the ground together with the A lead line, and used the 10 volt lamp lead instead of using another transformer for the lamp. what do you think of that???
John

G-Man

Quote from: Babybearjs on February 12, 2016, 03:55:33 PM
the one I have right now is a CS-2702-BMG. I got it on ebay a few years ago and was surprised at the changes in base design... at that time, I didn't know about the updated version.... I thought they had kept the regular light inside. and to find out about the LED version.... disappointing.... now, my next question is... I was looking at BSP #502-110-102 Pg. 12 and wondering why the bell system didn't customize the princess a little more when used on a 1A1/1A2 system. they could have..... changed out the wedge lamp to a #2825 (12 Volt) bulb, moved the Grn wire from 1 to 2 on the term. Board (By-Passing the resistor) and tied the ground together with the A lead line, and used the 10 volt lamp lead instead of using another transformer for the lamp. what do you think of that???

Those of us who have had the misfortune of dealing with ground-loops and from a safety perspective, feel fortunate that Bell did not take the cheap route. It is partially explained in 2.05, on page-one.

Babybearjs

if you are referring to this:

2.05 In sets having a dial light (TRIMLINE'" or
PRINCESS· type) Al ground should not be
common with one of the transformer leads. This
is necessary to prevent feedback of ac to the A
relay in the case of accidental grounding of the
transformer leads.

then I understand IF the 2012A transformer was being used but I'm saying omit the 2012 and use the LF lead to power the lamp.
John

DavePEI

Quote from: unbeldi on February 12, 2016, 12:47:11 PM
I date Queens only.
I recommend dating Princesses or Queens. You never know, your Princess may grow up to be a Queen, or even a Contessa!
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

Jim Stettler

Quote from: DavePEI on February 12, 2016, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: unbeldi on February 12, 2016, 12:47:11 PM
I date Queens only.
I recommend dating Princesses or Queens. You never know, your Princess may grow up to be a Queen, or even a Contessa!
Beware the Contessa. Many become barefoot contessas.
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Babybearjs

John

G-Man

#21
John, an "A" putting in some thought but are you sure that 10-volts will be enough to sufficiently illuminate the 12-volt lamp? Bell was also very conscious regarding cumulative current load, though I haven't checked to see how much the 2825 draws.

And even if the Bell System had decided to use this scheme, how often do you suppose that a Princess® used in a typical business environment, would need Illumination? I suspect there were not that many key system installations in the first place that specified a Princess® set.

However, back in the day, it still would have been something to contemplate.

paul-f

Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

poplar1

#23
Bell intended to rewire the Princess or Trimline like any other single line set: if extra switchhook leads were not availabie then one set of contacts could be repurposed for A/A1. In a 500-type set, Tip (green) and black ringer wire move to F, and switchhook wire moves from F to G, freeing up the green and white switchhook leads (now on L1 and G).
The dial light (Trimline) or dial/night light (Princess) remained independent of the 1A2 key.

However, I like your idea of repurposing the dial/night light on the Princess set as a "line/busy lamp"!
The line lamp would flash 60 IPM for incoming calls, and the busy lamp function would indicate any station was off-hook.

One " nonstandard" shortcut when installing round button (incandescent) Trimlines behind 1A2 was was told by my lead tech, Butch, former Bell tech. Instead of rewiring the base for A-lead control, they simply connected the black and white spade tip wires to A and A1 of the 1A2 Key Equipment. The low resistance of the incandescent lamp acted like an A/A1 short to the KTU.
(Of course, the dial no longer lit up.)

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

poplar1

One BSP or Service Rep Manual (don't remember which one) recommended busy lamps wherever 6 or more single line phones shared a line. I presume this is because interruptions by others wanting to dial out were more likely.

It does seem they would have found a way to use the Princess lamps for that purpose, without night light feature and without a key system. Two normally open switchhook contacts from each phone, all connected in parallel. All 6-volt (existing) lamps in parallel (not factory wiring). Common  6-volt ransformer large enough for all the lamps. 3 pairs to each phone.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Babybearjs

Thank you for the info. I didn't know Paul's website was so extensive. last time I browsed it, it didn't seem to have all this content. I was able to order the 6 wire jacks for the phones and I have 2 beige princess phones on order from ebay to take apart and reconfigure. I'll post pictures once I get this project going... I also notices on pauls website that there was a 412 phone. would love to come across one.... that would be a great catch! does anyone know if there is a schematic to the 412? all I find is the 410-411 drawings. anyway, thank you for all the help! 
John

paul-f

#26
Quote from: Babybearjs on February 13, 2016, 03:00:19 PM
... I also noticed on pauls website that there was a 412 phone. would love to come across one.... that would be a great catch! does anyone know if there is a schematic to the 412? all I find is the 410-411 drawings. anyway, thank you for all the help!

You're welcome, John.

Look in the chart column for BSPs...
  http://www.paul-f.com/we300typ.htm#412

Look up the BSPs in the TCI Library. The last on one the list includes connections...
  http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2804-502-430-400-i1-telephone-sets-401-402-410-411-412-5410-tl
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

Babybearjs

I downloaded the BSP. thank You. it just dawned on me that pauls site has all the reference materials right in front of me.... dummy me.... all I had to do was to WRITE IT DOWN..... I'm going to have to write down all these numbers and cross reference them in the TCI Library... hopefully they are all there.... does anyone know if the Library offers digital copies of all the BSP's on file? or have they gotten that far yet?
John

paul-f

It's all a work in progress.

Not all the BSPs referenced on my site are in the Library, as they haven't all been contributed yet.  Many of the numbers came from studying the index documents.

Similarly, not all the BSPs that exist are referenced on my site. There are just too many to have a complete list.

As we research more topics and uncover more references, they will be added as time permits.

Contributions to both sites are always welcome.

What do you mean by "digital copies?"  All the scans are stored and delivered in digital form.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

Babybearjs

Thanks Paul! your website really is a Godsend... I just wish all the docs were in the library.... but the bell system was real good at keeping things out of "Enemy" hands.... too bad there's not a law that requires all information like this to end up in the library of Congress.... then it would all still be around...  Thank you again!
John