212g. First Three Slot payphone in my collection. Now some questions

[trainman]

I found a 212g in pretty much original condition. I have some questions. Mine is dated 1962. What type of cable did they use to connect the dial to the terminal strip in the upper housing? What type of cable did they use to connect the phone to the subset? I want period correct. Number of cables and colors.

The signal transmitter wires on the coin chute were cut, and I'm sure I'm missing wiring, a capacitor and reisistor, and the coin switch wiring on the hopper was taken out of the circuit. Colin Chambers has plans for a post pay simulator I'd like to build.

Anyone have a picture of a postpay instruction card? I think the one on the phone now is a prepay card.

Anyone have a 212g they can post of picture of the coin hopper switch? I think I'm missing something. the switch was bent away from the coin vane and I cant figure out how all that was done. With the switch bent away, the coin vane is always down. so I assume the switch held it up.

I posted these pictures after I started the thread, so I had removed the coin switch on the hopper when I took these pictures.

Thanks.

Tony

[Stan S]

Tony
The dial cable is the standard 5 wire cable used in all the 200 series payphones.
The wire between the payphone and the subset is 2 or 3 short lengths of standard station quad wire.
Postpay payphones do not have a coin vanes.
I doubt that Colin Chambers designed a postpay simulator.

See attached.
Stan S.

[RotarDad]

Tony - I appreciate your efforts to restore your 212 correctly.  Stan beat me to the reply, but you should pay more attention to his input anyway...😀  As Stan says, the dial wire is a payphone-specific harness of 5 wires: white, yellow, blue, black and red, if memory serves.  Early ones were brown cloth covers over rubber insulated conductors, while later ones like your '62 would be vinyl/plastic.  I think one of the online vintage phone retailers sells the harness.

The 685A subset connections are detailed well on the forum.  I had trouble with hooking up a 233G a while back, and got plenty of help in this thread.  Note that there are 2 sets of wire for this connection, a 4-wire, and a 3-wire section of solid station wire (red, yellow, black, green).

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=14500.msg150768#msg150768

[RotarDad]

Tony - Here's a source for the dial harness:

http://www.oldphoneworks.com/payphone-dial-cord.html

This one has a green wire instead of white.  I've been working on a 191 which has the white, not green.  I'm not sure about the colors on the newer phones.

If you could locate the wire diagram for your phone, that would be helpful in getting everything back together right.  I couldn't find a 212G diagram online, but the phone functions should be very similar to the very common 233G.  This article may also be useful:

http://atcaonline.com/pay210.html

[Stan S]

Western Electric 212G and subset diagrams.
See attached

Stan S.

[trainman]

Thanks Stan and RotarDad.  Did these ever have a G1 handset installed, or did they always have G3s. Mine has a G1 installed.

[Ktownphoneco]

Tony   ....    Attached is a post pay instruction card.     I posted it earlier this week.    It's actually an Automatic Electric card, but I've removed the A.E. reference for you.    It'll certainly do the trick until you find and actual Western / Bell System post pay card.

Jeff Lamb

[poplar1]

Postpay payphones do not have a coin vanes.
Stan S.

Stan, I'm confused by this:

7.03  For dial postpay service, the coin hopper is
        equipped with a coin trap and a coin vane.
The coin vane is positioned permanently to the
left, allowing all coins to drop into the coin recep-
tacle. With the coin vane blocked in the collect posi-
tion, a coin shield is not required. A coin-trap
counterweight holds the coin trap in a horizontal
position unless it is forced downward by a
passing coin.

From BSP 506-110-100, Issue 1, January, 1959, Coin Collectors, General Information and Method of Operation

[Stan S]

Why are you confused?
I'm the one who was confused. I was thinking about a coin trigger.

Old age.

[Stan S]

This is probably what you want.
Stan S.

[RotarDad]

Tony - Your '62 would have had a G-1.  The black ABS G-3 didn't exist until '65 or so.  Check inside the handset at the earpiece end at the bottom for a date.  In the early 60's, they had a 2-digit year with hash marks encircling the year, one for each month.  So, a 62 with 5 hash marks, would be a May 1962 date of manufacture.  Of course, you can't check that if your handset caps are glued on - that was standard practice to deter vandals I believe about the time they started using armored handset cords (mid-60s ?).  Paul

[trainman]

Would anyone happen to know the value of the resistor and capacitor that is associated with the electromagnet circuit on the coin chute? Missing these, as well an the RF filter, but the filter is trivial. again, why cant people just disconnect wires instead of cutting them.

[andre_janew]

People often cut wires because they are in too big of a hurry to disconnect them.  Why are they in such a hurry?  That I don't know.

[Stan S]

Last first.
All depends on what circumstances the payphone was acquired. If it was bought from the phone company as salvage and they just cut wires, you got away lucky. It was standard practice to take a sledge hammer and pound the left, right, front, back, top and bottom of each 3-slot that was being sold as salvage. They were selling electronic scrap not payphones by the pound. Paul Vaverchak got hundreds of pounds of perfect untouched internal payphone parts out of those wrecks for years.

If that wasn't enough to make you sick read on!

Many years after the LEM was built successfully by Grumman Aircraft, they held auctions for surplus material every month in Bethpage Long Island. This went on for YEARS!!! There was room after room loaded with six foot racks filled with brand new (never touched by human hands or cigarette smoke) electronic test equipment lined up in rows. Standard, current catalog models. H.P. RF signal generators and AC voltmeters. CURRENT MODELS! Insulation break down testers, audio generators. You name it. It was electronic test equipment heaven!

Before the auction for 'Electronic Salvage' began, a team of MOOKS swinging sledge hammers went down the rows of racks and smashed each piece of equipment in the front of the rack. They then went around to the back of each rack and did the same thing. Actually made me physically sick the first time I witnessed it. After a few months it was just another day buying surplus by the pound. Your tax dollars at work.

The value of the capacitor in your 212 is in the neighborhood of 4 mfd. (give or take). Every time I try to measure one of those Westerns the value is all over the place. Could be because there's 'stuff' leaking out of the can or the can is crushed. The resistor is 10 ohms.

You might give Jim aka payphone installer a call. I believe he has Northern Touch Tone tops. The Northern Electric parts are the same value as the Westerns except the capacitors are modern and appear to have Epoxy cases. Much better quality. The Northern in the attachment measured 4 mfd.

Might be a good idea to check if the electromagnet is working. The wire of the coil of the magnet where it is soldered to the eyelets has a habit of breaking. Great engineering! They pulled the coil wire so tight before it got soldered to the eyelets that there was no slack for contraction due to changes in temperature. Hey Western Electric, way to go!

Put a 9V battery across the A and E screws on the coin track. See if the first nickel holding assembly changes state. This can be tested by depositing nickels in the top. If it doesn't, reverse the polarity of the battery and touch it to the A and E screws again. That electromagnet is polarized unlike the 233 type which is non-polarized. Non polarized electromagnet will release when the voltage is removed. The one in your payphone will remain in the same state with or without voltage applied to it. It will only change state with a reversal of the applied polarity.
Stan S.

[Jim Stettler]

People often cut wires because they are in too big of a hurry to disconnect them.  Why are they in such a hurry?  That I don't know.

Bell System Property, Be quick grabbing the phone or the phone cops will catch you.
JMO,
Jim S.