kjobenhavns

[LarryInMichigan]

I paid $28 plus $15 for shipping.  There is no gold here that I can find.  Most of the metal parts are nickel plated brass.  The cords appear to be made of something much thicker and stronger than silk.  They do look to be authentic though.  Someone imported boatloads of these probably in the 1960s.  It was in the 1960s that the Asian replicas started appearing in huge quantities.  If someone can explain to me why people keep calling these "French", I would appreciate it.  As far as I have seen, there were no phone models in France which looked like these.

Larry

[southernphoneman]

I bought one of these on ebay a couple of weeks ago: ebay link.  It has only 8 terminals and no counter like one of the phone pictured earlier in this thread.  Also like that other phone, one of the leads from the induction coil was twisted together with one wire going to the dial.  I removed one of the straps, moved a wire, and used the terminals for the dial and induction coil wires.

The dial looks very much like a British GPO No. 10, but a bit different.  It has only four terminals.  The plate was covered with a paper overlay which had the North American lettering scheme.  The overlay was in terrible condition, so I discarded it and removed the hard, dry adhesive from the enameled original Danish plate.  I replaced the strap to the ringer terminal with a resistor to reduce the amount of ringer current (and the loudness).  When the phone arrived, the ringer gong was stuffed full of cotton or wool.  I suppose that a former owner thought that the ringer was too loud.

The phone housing is painted off-white, but it was apparently originally black, though the handset plastic parts and cords are white.  The nickel plating was very tarnished and discolored, but I did alot of polishing and managed to make it look presentable.  I bought a tube of MAAS metal polish which helped alot.  The phone looks nice, but the sound quality is not great.    

Larry

larry is that a model DO -8 like I posted about a couple of weeks ago?

[LarryInMichigan]

I believe that it is a D08, but originally not the dial version.  I just found a web page (http://www.bigdoer.com/3048/old-things/ktas-d08-phone-rebuilt/) with good pictures of the parts of one on these.  Mine is mostly the same as the one in these pictures, except for the terminal strip, the lack of the counter, and the colors.  The dial is identical.

Larry

[wds]

Most of these that I've seen have the brass trim - this one looks quite nice with the nickel finish.  Much nicer than brass.

[vinhvinny]

1. My first question is: does this KATS need a subset, like my Western Electric 202 to keep power supply to reach the receiver? Which in the long run will desensitize and damage it.

  This KTAS of mine is much older than my WE202, I suspect it may need a subset.

2. Is my phone to supposed to ring?  now it does not.


When I just got the phone, and hooked L1 L2 to red and green cable and turn the magneto, it rang all the phone in the house. Dial tone right away though.
After a few calls in and out. It now no  longer rings any phone when turned, but my DMM still measures about 30 V AC when turned, generated by the phone itself.

3. Did I damage the magneto?

4. What is that red button for?

My wall plate has 5 wires as seen in pictures. Unlike Bingster's painstakingly drawing (thank you so much,) which has only four wires in line cord

Here is my trials and errors process but  I still don't know how it is supposed to be wired:

My wire cord has L1 L2 Z K and EK, EK seems to do nothing.

After all kind of combination of L1 Z to Red, L1 Z to Green, L2 K to red L2 Z Green.... etc..
All have voltage of 16VAC on hook and 5 off hook, have dial tone then busy then silent even on hook and can't answer.Louder volume.


The only things that works is Z to red and K to green has 99VAC on hook and 11VAC off hook. Ringing 48VAC. Talking 3 -6VAC. Softer volume.

Is the last scenario is the correct hookup?

Please see pictures of my line cord and my phone model.

Thanks a billion.

vinny

[dsk]

It is not easy without the wiring diagram, but usually the button would be a cut out function. When handset on cradle, the button disconnects the ringer when cranking. (more energy to the other party, and silence on your own phone).
On bad connections, the button would be used to short out the transmitter circuit to let all the energy go to the receiver.
(a press to listen button :-)  )

The Rosett (connection plate) is marked Z and K for  zinc and carbon (3 V battery between z and K)  L1 and L1 is for the line. EK is for extra Ringer. On some phones this should be shorted to one of the line terminals, usually the closest.  (You may need to put a capacitor here, e.g 1 microfarad unpolarized rated 200V or more)

I don't think you are able to kill the generator (magneto) by using it, but dc from the line may be bad for the magnets. This is definitely not made for connecting directly to a "modern" central battery system. 

dsk

[dsk]

The diagram could be like this.
dsk

[dsk]

If that diagram is the right, then this would be OK at a CB line, but the magneto generator and push button has no practical function here, no need for a battery.

dsk

[vinhvinny]

Thank you DSK,

Now I have a better understanding of my phone.

Like you said, it can be hooked to phone line, so it will not need subset to keep current out of receive and damage it.

attached below are  some images of the inside, can we figure out the diagram just by looking at the pictures?

since I now know L1 L2 Z K, I did some more hookups:

L1 L2 to phone line will have dial tone but hook switch seems to have no effect, and I will get "hang up now--eh eh eh" tone and then silence.

But why Z K are for battery but in my case Z K actually make the phone work perfectly when hooked up to phone line...

As you can see in picture, phone is in original condition with all wire letters matching it contact board letters.

Can you show me how to hook up  the ringer so that it rings when called in?

Thank you thank you,

vinny

[dsk]

The reason for not braking the dial tone is the "missing" capacitor.  I am not sure if the diagram I made is the right one, but if it is, it should work as sketched up at the last picture. The current from the line will act as a battery, and the shorting between L1 and L2 makes the receiver circuit work about like in a phone from approx 1920. Going on hook breaks the circuit. The ringer is a little bit more tricky. If you are lucky the capacitor between EK and K solve it. No risk to test.  If you don't have the capacitor, you may just short EK and K. If you hear dial tone in off hook state, but don't break dial tone by pressing the cradle it is good chance to be right. I have to guess about the capacitor values, but it should be rated 200V or more, be non polarized and have a value of at least 0.47 microfarad, and not more than 1. (I am sure 1 will work, but may give a rather great REN value))

dsk

PS Does the wires connected to these screws go to the ringer? What is the marking? Could you please take a closer photo?
DS

[dsk]

The essential difference here between US and many Scandinavian LB phones is the separation between the transmitter and receiver circuits.  If what in the blue square is isolated from the rest it is easy to do as described over, if it is some electric connection I need to figure out more details. The second thing may be if the EK is made for a serial ringer, or a parallel ringer. In som way we have to get a capacitor in series with the ringer.  Hopefully the ringer has a DC resistance of at least 1000 ohms.

dsk

[vinhvinny]

Again, thank you DSK for taking your time doing all the drawings and help me.

Please note, at this time to make the phone work properly, I am using K Z to phone line.

And I know that the ringer still works because while the phone being called, I hook up EK to K and L1 to Z ( same as EK L1 to phone lines) it immediately gives one full ring but also acts as picking up the phone--phone call is answered.

This phone is model M35, production was started in 1935?  I just wonder how old my phone is.

About the capacitor between EK and K to make ringer work, while K is to phone line, besides the specs you gave is there any name to what kind of capacitor it is?

All of shortings  above seem not to work but  I hope the capacitor won't increase REN that much, I already have 3 payphones on the line.

The picture below has writing of KL (right corner) and there are two coil wires that appear to be going to the ringer indeed.

The main board still has PA unused? Any suggestion for ringer.


Cheers,

vinny


P/S, to be honest, some technical info in your illustration are over my head!!!

[dsk]

Yes M35 seems to be made from 1935.
This capacitor may do the job: http://tinyurl.com/q8ebd24

Question could you please disconnect all wires your wires and measure resistance in on hook state between z and L1, Z and L2, K and L1, K and L2, and do the same in off hook position.  The next measurements will be in on hook position L1-L2 L1-EK L2-EK....


And fill out this form:

[vinhvinny]

Sorry DSK for late response,

Here are the measurements,  Please note that off hook state between Z and K (that's where I connect my phone with line cord) gives 75 ohm

I removed all my wires and this is measured at the Rosett.


Thank you,

vinny

[dsk]

Sorry DSK for late response,

Here are the measurements,  Please note that off hook state between Z and K (that's where I connect my phone with line cord) gives 75 ohm

I removed all my wires and this is measured at the Rosett.


Thank you,

vinny

Now is the time to say, you see I know everything about phones :-), but that's not true . 

It looks like my diagram matches pretty well, the transmitter circuit has nothing common with the rest, so z and k to line makes the transmitter work, powered by the telco.

The receiver with secondary winding will work when L1 and L2 are connected.  (It will probably be some impedance mismatch, but no great problem) 

The ringer seems to be pretty lo ohms, 620 ohms (I had expected 1000 ohms) , connected between L1 and EK (maybe via hook sw.) a connection between one of the line wires (K or Z) and L1 connects one side of the ringer to the line, the other line wire (Z or K) connects to the EK ringer terminal via a capacitor. With a 1 microfarad capacitor, my guess are close to 2.5 REN. 2 such capacitors in series, or one of .5 will give a more normal REN load, but it may be necessary to tune the ringer mechanical to work at so limited current.  Her is the best option to test and try to you get a result you may feel as OK. 

dsk