I am interested in how some people get their bakelite phones to such a high shine. I have used/am using brasso, novus and then carnuba with a ryobi and hand buffing. Here are some questions:
1) Anyone have a method that they swear by?
2) Anybody have any luck with Glayzit?
3)Is elbow grease the main ingredient?
I have no problem dedicating myself to working long tedious hours, but I don't want to waste my time if there is a 'foolproof' method. BTW, I wear a uniform everyday to work and spit shine my boots and brass - everyday. Patience is not new to me. Thanks in advance.
I use brasso, but I've never gotten the spit shine some exhibit. A finish coat of Turtle wax F-21, will give you a ice finish, but because bakelite is a closed ended polymer, nothing soaks in, so a coat is all you will get and needs to be reapplied. I almost wondering if some spray a clear coat. I've rubbed my butt off on bakelite and never got the like new finish except once on a Philco Hippo radio case.
D/P
I use Novus 2 with a Ryobi RB60 hand held polisher, like the one shown in the picture.
You can buy them at HomeDepot for $20-22. Buy the pads at Walmart, about $3 each. The original pads are worthless. I modified mine by cutting off the bottom half inch so it is easier to install the pads.
Vintage bakelite has a jet black, piano like finish. The shiny plastic is a thin layer over a thermoset plastic. If damaged by years of neglect or exposure to the elements, you may be out of luck or get some presentable finish depending on the damage.
After washing the part with hot water and soap, I polish it with Novus 2, until the part gets very warm. If the bakelite is good, it doesn't take long to bring back the original finish.
The pads will get dark green or black after a polishing session, but they clean nicely in the washing machine. Half hour minimum on a handset is OK with me.
Jorge and Dan-
I have the Ryobi (thanks to advice on this forum!) and started using the Brasso and robi last night. I did get the green/black stains on the pad. I will be buying more this week. I think I am going to get a can of Glayzit and try it on one of my 'part phones' and see how it works. On one of my Kellogg pyramid projects I did actually spit shine (shoe polish/water) the outer surface. Not quite the results I was hoping for but definitely better than buffing alone. I will be taking some pictures. Thanks, again!
NYFED, Dan:
I have gone through three of these machines because the pad tends to wear out after repeated used. They were designed to be used in very large panels like car doors, hoods, etc, where the pad flexes little.
When polishing a phone, (handsets, housings, gongs, etc) the foam in the pad flexes a lot and they don't last too long. Once I found a nice piece of foam and was able to make a pad out of it.
The motor lasts forever. The ball bearing in the transmission will last through 20-35 phones and will begin to rattle and show a lot of looseness. What I have done in the past is to move the ball bearing from one with a busted pad into my well cured favorite. In this one I used a hacksaw to cut off the bottom 1/2 inch so installing and removing the pad is easier.
Mine seems to improve with age: when new, the pad was easy to stop from rotating. As the ball bearing "ages a bit", it needs more pressure to reduce the pad rotational speed. That is the "zone" in which you want to operate this machine.
With a clean pad and Novus 2 on it, apply some pressure to get the Novus spread over the part you want to polish. I hold the part to shine between my left hand and upper torso and guide the Ryobi with my right hand. After 5 minutes or so of moderate pressure, increase the pressure so you can hear the machine slow down. This will increase the bakelite or plastic temperature and help bring the shine out.
Apply some pressure from the other side so you don't break a housing. I wear a leather glove in my left hand, because the direct vibration from the machine makes my hand tingle a bit if I do this for more than an hour. A few minutes into this will dry the Novus and you should have a shiny part, if the bakelite is good to start with. With a bakelite housing, I stuff a rag or two inside and apply pressure from the inside with my left hand, while the machine applies pressure from outside. Plan to spend sometime doing this; usually 30 to 40 minutes per pass per housing or handset is OK.
You can do ringer gongs with this procedure and they come out with a nice mirror like finish, but gongs are tougher to hold with my left hand because of the small size. Definitely use a leather glove when doing gongs. I usually do these with Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound (the reddish type), but Novus 2 is OK also.
Lucite finger wheels, caps and number wheels can be done with this machine, but I use extra care to make sure the smaller parts don't fly away.
In less than ideal results, you can end up with a handset like in my AE40 shown below, not perfect, but presentable. If the stars align perfectly, you end up with a finish like in my Galion, shown below. This one turned like this in just 3 to 5 minutes.
Good luck!
Jorge;
Can you post a before and after photo.
D/P
Quote from: JorgeAmely on July 11, 2009, 02:15:20 AM
The shiny plastic is a thin layer over a thermoset plastic. If damaged by years of neglect or exposure to the elements, you may be out of luck or get some presentable finish depending on the damage.
I wonder if that's what happened to a red 500 I have. When I brought it home, I dismantled it and washed the plastic parts in plain dish soap and luke-warm water. I noticed the sponge I was using turned reddish, and the housing lost it's shiny finish. Here's a before and after picture:
I think the red phone is painted. Check the inside of housing, caps and handset for over spray. What kind of soap did you use?
D/P:
For the AE40, I have before and after pictures at this location:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Amelyenator/AE40#
For the Galion, I found four "before" pictures that I added to:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Amelyenator/Model8H6FromNorthElectricCompanyFromGalionOhio#
Brinybay you're not confusing Bakelite with the plastic, are you? I wouldn't use Brasso on plastic, either soft or hard. On both of the examples Jorge posted and his Bakelite tips are for Bakelite.
I agree with Jorge that the red phone may have been painted at some time in its life.
Quote from: JorgeAmely on July 11, 2009, 03:05:58 PM
I think the red phone is painted. Check the inside of housing, caps and handset for over spray. What kind of soap did you use?
The housing doesn't appear to have been painted, but the handset cord looks like it was. I just used regular dish soap, I don't remember the brand because I always buy whatever's cheapest at the time.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on July 11, 2009, 03:17:50 PM
Brinybay you're not confusing Bakelite with the plastic, are you? I wouldn't use Brasso on plastic, either soft or hard. On both of the examples Jorge posted and his Bakelite tips are for Bakelite.
I agree with Jorge that the red phone may have been painted at some time in its life.
Although the thread is about Bakelite polish, I assumed that this sentence by itself was referring only to plastic and not bakelite. If I misread it, my apologies for confusing the issue.
QuoteThe shiny plastic is a thin layer over a thermoset plastic. If damaged by years of neglect or exposure to the elements, you may be out of luck or get some presentable finish depending on the damage.
Actually, Brasso (particularly old Brasso) is a wonder for all manner of plastics. It's frequently used for polishing plastic watch crystals, CDs... the list is endless.
Brinybay, you could take a pen knife and scratch the INSIDE of the phone's case, to see if the case is painted.
I've seen some of Ma Bell's paint jobs that are pretty hard to tell that it's been painted. My Franken554's beige handset was painted the same color beige at some point, and it's so good that you really have to look hard.
Some of the info in this thread is very useful and maybe ought to be moved to the technical info section.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on July 11, 2009, 03:17:50 PM
Brinybay you're not confusing Bakelite with the plastic, are you? I wouldn't use Brasso on plastic, either soft or hard. On both of the examples Jorge posted and his Bakelite tips are for Bakelite.
I agree with Jorge that the red phone may have been painted at some time in its life.
The black mostly 1960 Signal Corps (WE 500) is hard plastic. It was dirty and after a very thorough washing it still didn't shine very much. I figured what the heck and passed some brasso on it, buffed it, then used some Nu Finish car polish on it. It now shines like a mirror.
Brinybay;
You didn't by any chance use the two sided sponge with Scothbrite on the back, that is what I use to remove paint splatter etc. but you need to polish afterwards.
D/P
Quote from: Dan/Panther on July 12, 2009, 01:45:04 PM
Brinybay;
You didn't by any chance use the two sided sponge with Scothbrite on the back, that is what I use to remove paint splatter etc. but you need to polish afterwards.
D/P
I did, but I used only the sponge side.
The scotchbrite sides of those pades, coupled with bon ami, is what I use to get nicotine discoloration off colored phones. It works wonders. As Dan said, it has to be followed up with polish, but you'd be surprised at how much can be accomplished with a good scrubbing like this.
I tried using Armor All on Bakelite and it works pretty nice, maybe more buffing will do
Quote from: bingster
The scotchbrite sides of those pads, coupled with bon ami, is what I use to get nicotine discoloration off colored phones. It works wonders. As Dan said, it has to be followed up with polish, but you'd be surprised at how much can be accomplished with a good scrubbing like this.
I'm also wondering about using "Barkeepers' Friend" as a mild abrasive, tho it may be just about the same stuff as Bon Ami.
Ramil, your phone looks great with the Armour All. Is that a Dutch Ericsson Ruen phone or is it a Swedish Ericsson? Either way it's very nice. From what I've read on the forum the Armour All seems to be a good last treatment after the cleaning and polishing, just that on bakelite the phone can use more Armour All and buffing every once in awhile to keep the good shine.
thanks Matt, for plastic casing, I use Pledge Furniture Polish and it works great
Quote from: mienaichizu
thanks Matt, for plastic casing, I use Pledge Furniture Polish and it works great
Interesting. I've never heard of using Pledge as a polish on plastic. Has anyone else used it? I wonder what the active ingredients of Pledge polish are.
I use it on the plastic faceplates of radios, but for some reason it never occurred to me to use it on a phone. I'll have to try that.
here's the one I did using Pledge
more photos are posted on my blogsite
http://mienaichizu.multiply.com/photos/album/189/STC_Telephone
That came out real nice ;)
Nice shinny "Aussie" phone you have there!
thanks everybody
Those phones look fab! Like new. I will have to try the amour all idea.
Besides the great shine given by the Armour All, am I correct in assuming that it also gives some UV protection? 8)
Quote from: HobieSport on July 20, 2009, 12:52:26 PM
Besides the great shine given by the Armour All, am I correct in assuming that it also gives some UV protection? 8)
yes, here's a little info about Armor All
"Can I use Armor All® Protectant products on my dashboard; will it cause cracking?
Armor All® Protectant products are safe to use on your car's dashboard, and will not cause cracking. In fact, Armor All® Protectant products are specially formulated to guard against UV damage (like cracking and discoloration). Whether you prefer sprays, wipes or gel, our Protectants can help keep your dashboard looking like new."
http://www.armorall.com/faq/interior.php#answer11
I've been having great luck lately with using Semichrome to polish bakelite handsets, particularly G1s.
I'll have to post some photos, but I got a nice shine out of one that I thought was a lost cause.
A couple of days ago I ordered a tube of Paste Polishing No. 5. It's supposed to be very good, and is what the G.P.O. used on their Bakelite 'phones. I'll report back when I've had a chance to use it.
GLAYZIT is specifically formulated for the cleaning/polishing of bakelite phone sets. It works well if applied correctly. I sell it, if anyone is interested. Contact me directly @ Bonchakrs@aol.com if interested.
BOB
The Greygate polishes have arrived. I ordered a 'kit' consisting a 60g tube of Paste Polishing No.5, a 100ml bottle of Plastic Polish and a microfibre cloth.
The paste is rather like toothpaste which has been stained the colour of English mustard, and given a slightly odd smell. The smell reminds me of something, but I can't think what. The plastic Polish seems to be a solution of waxes in some sort of solvent; it has quite a strong smell, and carries a flammable warning. There's also a warning against using it on Cellulose Acetate. It says that there's a special version available for use on this material, but I don't have any. I've tested the polishes on my recently-acquired 232. The handset cradle, plunger top, drawer front and knob are acetate on this 'phone, but since it's dismantled at the moment this isn't a problem.
I started with the Earpiece cap. The paste worked well, but dries quite quickly, I think it is best to work on just a small area at a time; if it dries out on the surface it seems to leave a residue which takes a fair amount of work to remove. Only a small amount of paste is required; I would say about 15-20 'phones could be done with one tube. The paste easily removed the many small splashes of paint, and the dull surface dirt. and left the Bakelite looking almost like new. It does take time to remove all traces of the paste, I probably spent about 30 minutes working on the earpiece cap, but it was in rather poor condition. I've since also done the spit-cup mouthpiece, which was somewhat quicker. I'm going to leave the rest of the handset until tomorrow.
Once all traces of the paste have been removed the surface looks pretty good, but using the Plastic Polish does improve the gloss. The polish doesn't seem to go as far as the paste; I would estimate about 5-10 'phones per bottle.
The process really needs more than one cloth; I'd say three, one to apply the paste and do most of the work, a second to remove the residue and a third for the polish.
can you get brasso at wal-mart????
Walmart, grocery stores, hardware stores... just about everywhere. Be careful not to get it on any painted markings, as Brasso in the plastic bottle will ruin paint.
Brasso is also a bit "fumey", use in well ventilated area.
Brasso is made with ammonia.
(http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1259.0;attach=5712;image)
This polisher looks huge! So is everyone using something like this?
The pad is about six inches in diameter. It is designed to be a hand held unit.
I know but the phone is 6 inches wide, and there are so many nooks and crannies...
You won't get into the nooks and crannys with the buffer. But you will soon learn that it is your friend. It isn't not as large as it appears. I don't hold it by the knob at the top. I put my hand around the housing, below the knob. I've about worn out my second one and gone through lots of terry cloth covers. The foam rubber part is what wears away. They were $19.99 for a long time but I think they're up to $25 now.
Yep $25 at Home Depot. Does hand polishing work? Is it worth trying?
What types of stores sell Novus 2?
Hand polishing is good. Some only do hand polishing. I used to do only hand polishing and still do, but when I'm finished hand polishing I always give it the once-over with the Ryobi.
I have never seen Novus products in a retail outlet. I have heard that some Harley Davidson shops sell it for polishing plastic. You might also check local plastic manufacturers. I did find one here in my area that will sell Novus in quantity. I have always purchased mine off eBay. I buy Novus2 in the half gallon bottles. I avoid the 3 bottle packages because I don't use #3 or rarely #1.
Cha-ching, found it at the Container Store, assuming they stock it in store... it says backordered on the website:
http://www.containerstore.com/shop/cleaning/cleaningSolutionsAccessories?productId=10026228
Also, Needledoctor has it, which is a little more out of the way, but they have a retail store near the U of MN campus:
http://www.needledoctor.com/Novus-Polish-2-Fine-Scratch-Removal
And, Ericofon.com has it and he is local. I just remembered that:
http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/novus/novus.htm
HA! THEY ARE BASED HERE!!! I'm such an idiot...
Novus can be found at some Motorcycle shops and some boat shops.
"Let you fingers do the walking"
Regarding buffing. Before I joined the forum a list member suggested using a ryobi buffer and linked Jorge's photo alblum as an inspirational example.
Jim.
What kind of cloth do you use for hand polishing?
Terry cloth would be okay, but I like to use a guiar polishing cloth, which is available from your local music store. They're not expensive and are really soft.
I ordered some Glayzit from "Radiodaze" and am waiting for it to arrive. I'm not at all happy with their on-line ordering process or their lack or response to my order. I had to e-mail them to find out of the order even went through. Their reply was that my package shipped out a week ago today, yet I'm still waiting to receive it.
Until they get their act together, I'm advising members to avoid them if you can find the product elsewhere.
Hats off to whoever bought the first Ryobi. For 25 bucks or less, it sure is a big help. I bought one about 6 weeks ago and my phones look a lot better than when I just did hand polishing. However, some of the polishing jobs I have seen on here put mine to shame. Somebody else in another post suggested a power shoe polisher (which has a smaller pad than the Ryobi), but I haven't tried that yet. I'm thinking it might help for smaller areas like the back of an AE40 or between a 500 set's cradle ears. I can never quite get those areas good enough to satisfy me.
You can make a buffer for about $100. You need a 3/4 to 1 HP electric motor. A slave pulley to step down the speed from your drive pulley Most electric motors turn about 3400 RPM. You need to step down to about 1000 RPM so you won't burn plastic. A mandrel to hold the buffing wheels. With this kind of buffer you get better control and are able to hold the item you are buffing in two hands. Below are a couple of pictures of the one I built. Not much to look at, but it gets the job done. I got the concept from a collector in B.C. who posted a picture of his on some Web site I came across.
On another note, someone in this thread suggested Pledge wax. Use Pledge Future floor wax ( or polisher?) It give a translucent shine. It is used by model makers for a shiny finish - cars, airplane canopies, etc. I apply it with an airbrush, but you can apply it with a cloth ( no one uses an airbrush on a floor0 You don't have polish it, just let it dry. It is available at most supermarkets and hardware stores. Use ammonia to take it off if you don't like the result
Chuck:
Can you take a few more pictures around the unit?
Thanks in advance.
The Glayzit arrived. I don't have a power polisher so just gave my recent early G1 acquisition a going over with a soft cloth. From some of the comments posted on CRP forums in the past, I was expecting miraculous results, but really only noticed slight improvement.
My F1 handset looks awful brown even after cleaning. I've done a little hand polishing. I have a motorcycle to buff, so I may just try out the Ryobi, even though I think it looks clunky.
What do I do if the thin coating turns out to be worn off? At that point is it best to just get a new handset?
Netdewt,
No matter how much you polish it, your handset will never look blacker. The outer black layer is worn off of it. Many people have used black shoe polish to blacken bakelite, but you obviously need to be careful applying shoe polish to a handset because you don't want shoe polish on your hand.
F1 handsets are easy to find, so your best option is probably to replace it. Steve Hilsz (http://phonesurplus.com/f1handset.html (http://phonesurplus.com/f1handset.html)) has alot of them, and his prices are very reasonable.
Larry
Okay, I was thinking of checking with him. I wouldn't mind having the extra, worn, "trash" handset for another project.
I am planning on attempting to paint a worn F1 handset, which has been replaced, ivory for my WE Imperial (when I get around to it). It never hurts to have some spare F1s lying around.
Larry
Ralph;
Radiodaze is kinds know for slow. Do Ebay search, and get larger quantity cheap.
I use a hand held electric shoe polisher, I found it on ebay new for about $30.00. The Ryobi is cheaper.
I use the micro fiber clothes from Wal-Mart, 6 for $5.00, the only cloth I've ever seen that will not even scratch the bright surface of a DVD. Whenever I sell a phone, I put one with it and a small bottle of F-21, I bought some small aerosol bottles that hold I ounce from ebay, for about a buck each. I wrote up an instruction sheet, and put it all together in a ziplock baggy.
D/P
We have a harley-daividson shop in Jackson would they sell novus?
Kenny, call them up and ask them.
I would but they have a long distance number we are going up there tommorrow for to register for home school so we will pobably just stop by there
Try to find a plastics specialty shop in your area, e.g. in my area it's called Tap Plastics. They have all 3 grades of Novus and the floor people weren't mindless clerks, they were experts on plastics and resins. The local Harley shop only had small bottles of Novus 1.
what is the difference between novus 1,2, and 3?
Novus #1 is a fine, finish polish that comes in a spray pump-style bottle. It is a "final" polish. #2 is the medium grit polish and the I use most of the time. #3 has a much grittier feel to it and is for deeper scratches. I have found that I use mostly #2. I buy #2 in a half gallon bottle and it lasts me quite a while. I have only used one full 8oz bottle of #3 and rarely bring out the #1.
My recommendation would be to spend your money on a larger bottle (8oz) of #2 rather than pay for the set of three. A little goes a long way. If you really get into polishing up phones you might want to consider buying the polish in larger quantities.
I think that Novus was initially developed as a way to remove or improve automotive lenses that have fogged over or discolored from age. Things such as colored overhead light lenses on emergency vehicles, etc. At least that's one use that their web sites boasts.
http://www.novuspolish.com/
Quote from: Dennis Markham on August 06, 2010, 10:03:55 AM
Novus #1 is a fine, finish polish that comes in a spray pump-style bottle. It is a "final" polish. #2 is the medium grit polish and the I use most of the time. #3 has a much grittier feel to it and is for deeper scratches. I have found that I use mostly #2. I buy #2 in a half gallon bottle and it lasts me quite a while. I have only used one full 8oz bottle of #3 and rarely bring out the #1.
My recommendation would be to spend your money on a larger bottle (8oz) of #2 rather than pay for the set of three. A little goes a long way. If you really get into polishing up phones you might want to consider buying the polish in larger quantities.
I think that Novus was initially developed as a way to remove or improve automotive lenses that have fogged over or discolored from age. Things such as colored overhead light lenses on emergency vehicles, etc. At least that's one use that their web sites boasts.
http://www.novuspolish.com/
Dennis I agree 100%. I still have a half used bottle of Novus #1 from eight years ago and I didn't find much value from the spray #3. The #2 is truly a winner and the star of the Novus family.....Doug
Actually Doug, the spray is #1 and the heavier polish is #3. I could never figure that one out either. You'd think the numbers would start with #1 as the "big gun" followed by #2 and then the finish spray as #3.
Quote from: Dennis Markham on August 06, 2010, 11:15:26 AM
Actually Doug, the spray is #1 and the heavier polish is #3. I could never figure that one out either. You'd think the numbers would start with #1 as the "big gun" followed by #2 and then the finish spray as #3.
Dennis...shows how much I used them!...Doug
Got it. It was 5.95 for an 8 ounce bottle. I got 2 bottles. They have all 3 and it does wonderful work.
My 302 handset is pretty faded but smooth. Is there any way to get it back to black? I have not used the buffer with Novus 2 on it yet. I was thinking maybe I need to re dye it or something.
Hi All:
For years, I have bought my Novus at local auto glass shops. They use it to buff and remove scratches from plastic headlight and other lenses. I have found that just about any glass shop around here sells it.
Dave
Quote from: NetdewtMy 302 handset is pretty faded but smooth. Is there any way to get it back to black? I have not used the buffer with Novus 2 on it yet. I was thinking maybe I need to re dye it or something.
Netdewt -
There is some disagreement among members here, but if the handset is smooth enough to satisfy you (in other words, if there is some gloss), and all it needs is recoloring, then black paste shoe polish works well. Just as for shoes, you rub it on, let it sit, and buff it with a clean cloth or a buffer. It won't smooth out any imperfections, but it will shine up nicely on an already-smooth surface.
Bill
With bakelite I use my daddys shoe polish.
Quote from: DavePEI on September 18, 2012, 08:17:34 PM
Hi All:
For years, I have bought my Novus at local auto glass shops. They use it to buff and remove scratches from plastic headlight and other lenses. I have found that just about any glass shop around here sells it.
Dave
Dave - You comment about "...buff and remove scratches from plastic headlight and other lenses" got me to thinking about headlight restoration kits. Amazon.com has one: 3M 39008 Headlight Lens Restoration System that sells for $14.41. Do you think it's worth a try? Gerald
Before you try a headlight restorer, try a (cheaper) premium rubbing compound which may be the main ingredient in a headlight restorer anyway. Turtle Wax T-415 has always worked well for me and can be found in big box and auto parts stores for about the same price as Amazon. I've stopped using Novus a while ago and mostly use T-415 for polishing both plastic and bakelite. I also used it to clean and shine the original paint on a few metal 302s and my 51AL with great results.
I previously used black Kiwi shoe polish (old school paste) for restoring the black finish to bakelite handsets, but mineral oil has really gotten my attention after reading about how Doug and others have had good results with Skin So Soft. I have posted my mineral oil results in another thread.
Now that summer is almost officially over :'( I can get back to restoring phones. Just wondered if anyone has tried a product called Wipe New. They have advertised it on TV plus I have seen it in Canadian Tire. They basically say it will restore things to its original shine but not to be used on painted metal. Can restore headlights, vinyl, etc. just curious if anyone has tried it. Thanks