GPO 248 with Homemade Bellset

[Slal]

Hi everyone,

This will likely be my last phone for a while because getting it to work with intercom or extensions is going to require a great deal of work.  (Already been a bit of work, taking it apart, cleaning it, and making a ringer but more about that later.)

Very happy to have gotten it, and consider myself fortunate.  Been looking at Neophones & 232F's for years, but problem with GPO's being in England is you "can't look under the hood" so to speak, and some sellers refuse to mail outside UK.

Very lucky to have had a member here, who lives in England, offer to "post" a phone (or parts) for me since I'd sent him a WEco DarkBeige-- free as part of a silly phone game based on college football.  While the seller did ship here to the States, thought that was very nice of him to offer.

Anyway, here is! 

A collectors' name for it on eBay UK seems to be "King Pyramid Phone" and I can see why.  Beast of a phone and is almost is big as an old my typewriter!   

--Bruce

[Slal]

Second set of photos might need some explanation.  I had to set alarm at 3AM since UK is 6 hours ahead.  Seller & I speak English, but maybe I was still half asleep when on the phone with him.

He assured me phone was legit-- even down to the buzzer.  (Not 'modernized/restored' and all that.)  Unfortunately seller might've taken 'buzzer' to mean bell.  I took him calling it a 'bell' to mean DC buzzer...    

So what I got was a little AC operated 'tinkle bell' of a ringer, and no original buzzer. 

1.) Anyone know where I might find original bellset 44 buzzer?

Anyway, didn't like the sound of mini-bell, so made my own subset out of a pirated WEco 5302 ringer.  All I need now is a better box.   

2.) Suggestions where I might get a box circa '49 to 1966 (refurbished then) that might look nice with it? Don't know if they made bakelite or metal boxes about 6" x 6"

thanks

--Bruce 

===
PS: if not clear from photo.

302's ringer:

Black to T1
white & white striped commons to T2
Red to T3

UK to USA/Canada converter (looks like an old DSL modem filter) required for different plugs & capacitor if want it to ring.

[Jack Ryan]

Hi Bruce,

The name Pyramid has been around for a while to describe the top section of the telephone. I personally prefer to use the proper name as "Pyramid" refers to several telephones in the UK and several more elsewhere. In addition, 332s and the like are also referred to as Pyramids by eBay sellers who don't know any better and/or think the name will help the sale.

The same eBay sellers coined the tern "King Pyramid" to describe a Tele 162 or Tele 232 with a bellset. Already there is ambiguity because two telephones can be called the same name. Better tho use the proper names.

I don't think I have ever heard the intermediate telephone form referred to as a King Pyramid.

The Bellset No 44 and its predecessors do not contain a bell - despite the name. Someone may have added a mini-bell so that the usual external bell was not required.

I assume you know where to find the diagrams.

For example the Bellset No 44 is here: http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/0000/N544.pdf

The telephone (Tele 248) section is here: http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/0000/N348.pdf

For telephones, add 100 --> Tele 248 + 100 --> N348

For Bellsets, add 500 --> Bellset No 44 + 500 --> N544

Regards
Jack

[Slal]

I don't think I have ever heard the intermediate telephone form referred to as a King Pyramid.

The Bellset No 44 and its predecessors do not contain a bell - despite the name. Someone may have added a mini-bell so that the usual external bell was not required.

I assume you know where to find the diagrams.

For example the Bellset No 44 is here: http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/0000/N544.pdf

The telephone (Tele 248) section is here: http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/0000/N348.pdf

For telephones, add 100 --> Tele 248 + 100 --> N348

For Bellsets, add 500 --> Bellset No 44 + 500 --> N544

Regards
Jack

"King" probably just hype then.   

Sam Hallas, great stuff-- phones & bell sets... Eye candy.   

Thanks for the tips.  "Bell or buzzer"  might explain the confusion. 

So what's circled do-hickie in attachment?

Maybe I've got it wrong.  Thought the idea was you could 'buzz' someone in another office, or even put your phone on 'hold' to prevent listening in, or accidentally picking up & dialing, etc. 

Assumed that's what the little indicator was for.  Pops up "Exchange" if someone else on the line?

Plenty to learn.  Didn't know that about 'official' names either.  Copy & pasted.

Links too.  Have a few diagrams for plans 5 & 7, but going to be a real challenge to try to redraw them & see if can't get an AE intercom phone to work with it.  Can't afford another GPO like a 306F though that style looks cool.  (Maybe it's the drawer-- very ingenious.)   

LB is probably really going to be another tough one. 

9 volt or 12 DC at how many amps?  Have to draw the circuit first though.  Be the most ambitious project I've done.   

Wish me luck! 

---Bruce

_____
Google Images unclear, so disclaimer:

The attached image was retrieved for educational purposes from:

http://www.britishtelephones.com/bellst44.htm

[Jack Ryan]

So what's circled do-hickie in attachment?

Maybe I've got it wrong.  Thought the idea was you could 'buzz' someone in another office, or even put your phone on 'hold' to prevent listening in, or accidentally picking up & dialing, etc. 

Assumed that's what the little indicator was for.  Pops up "Exchange" if someone else on the line?

That is a DC buzzer - it is used to signal incoming calls from the extensions. There is no bell to signal incoming exchange calls.

It is a very simple intercom system. I haven't worked with this particular interphone for quite a while but generally the main can put the exchange on hold while making a call to an extension. The busy indicator tells the main user that the extension is talking to the exchange.

The DC supply is used as the extension talk supply and to sound the buzzers.

These might help:

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/4000/N4308.pdf

and possibly

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/4000/N4310.pdf

Jack

[andy1702]

Second set of photos might need some explanation.  I had to set alarm at 3AM since UK is 6 hours ahead.  Seller & I speak English, but maybe I was still half asleep when on the phone with him.

He assured me phone was legit-- even down to the buzzer.  (Not 'modernized/restored' and all that.)  Unfortunately seller might've taken 'buzzer' to mean bell.  I took him calling it a 'bell' to mean DC buzzer...    

So what I got was a little AC operated 'tinkle bell' of a ringer, and no original buzzer. 

1.) Anyone know where I might find original bellset 44 buzzer?

Anyway, didn't like the sound of mini-bell, so made my own subset out of a pirated WEco 5302 ringer.  All I need now is a better box.   

2.) Suggestions where I might get a box circa '49 to 1966 (refurbished then) that might look nice with it? Don't know if they made bakelite or metal boxes about 6" x 6"

thanks

--Bruce 

===
PS: if not clear from photo.

302's ringer:

Black to T1
white & white striped commons to T2
Red to T3

UK to USA/Canada converter (looks like an old DSL modem filter) required for different plugs & capacitor if want it to ring.

That little brass colred mini-bell is definitely a modern extra fitting. There's a dealer over here in the Uk who likes fitting those to phones that shouldn't have them. Incideltally, I think it's actually a part he got from the US, but I could be wrong about that.

There were also a lot of thoase bases around new old stock a year or so back, so I wouldn't be surprised if the phone didn't originally come on that base.

Andy.

[Slal]

That little brass colred mini-bell is definitely a modern extra fitting. There's a dealer over here in the Uk who likes fitting those to phones that shouldn't have them. Incideltally, I think it's actually a part he got from the US, but I could be wrong about that.

There were also a lot of thoase bases around new old stock a year or so back, so I wouldn't be surprised if the phone didn't originally come on that base.

Andy.

Thanks to both you and Jack for helping me on this.  Half the fun of this is learning about them. 

Not fun is setting alarm clock to 3AM since UK is 6 hours ahead.  Comedy of errors with bell.  He may have installed a bell thinking that's what I wanted!   

Had called seller about one from the war years, but he wasn't going to budge on his price. (Which was too expensive for me.)  Said he'd check & figured that was the end of it.  To my surprise, he mailed back that he'd found one I might be interested in except no "F" dial face.

Don't know if bellset is NOS or not.  Bewildering number of wires on terminals chopped off.  Also, one big fat cable chopped off & poked through clamp in front of mouse hole.

Anyway, markings on the base may or may not help, but would be interested what they mean.

Square bit of paper on it reads, "BS 44 FNR 65/2"

Stamped on RH side of bellset is a box with crown and "GPO A PPO 3299"

Diagram on drawer (which could be off anything) has "KS 10695"

So... Probably a mongrel phone, but I'm happy just to have one. 

HS is 1946, top is 1950's? and "batch sampled" refurb  in 1966?

Bellset... Who knows...

Directory is 1960 & number card isn't like any I've seen in pictures.  Rather than a nice bold printed version of name & number, it  looks to have been stamped.  Probably never know.    

BTW:  306 or 312 would've been likely extension?  Not that I'll be getting one any time soon.  Need to sell off 500's & a useless B2 that's been ruined because someone repainted it with powder-coat.  Has #2 dial & e-1 handset.  Who cares.  Probably get $10 on e-Bay minus 15% pay-pal and 15% e-Bay listing fee.  Toss it...

---
Technical:  Have an Automatic electric BE that's 12V DC at 1.5 mA.  Too much?  Question at a forum based in UK states only need a 9V battery to get buzzer to work.  (provided seller didn't toss buzzer or can find one... )

"The United States and Briton.  Two great nations separated only by our common use of the English Language!" -- paraphrasing  George C Scott's line from the movie Patton.   

[Owain]

Technical:  Have an Automatic electric BE that's 12V DC at 1.5 mA.  Too much?  Question at a forum based in UK states only need a 9V battery to get buzzer to work.

These extension plans originally used 2 x 1.5 v dry cells to provide local battery for the intercom speech, indicator and buzzer signalling.

The later replacement Plan 105/107 used a 10 v dc power supply from the mains.

[Slal]

Thanks.   Might not be workable for GPO/AE 'hybrid' since the latter is higher voltage.

Meanwhile, picked up this little addition.  I had thought postage was a little high, but got here quickly!

Summing up questions then.

1.) Anyone know what the markings on bottom of bellset mean, or how old it might be?

2.) Technical assistance if want to try to get indicator to work?

3.) Since AE out of the picture, would any GPO 300 series work, or need specialized one such as a 306 or 312?

thanks

--Bruce

Edit:  Think it looks much nicer with numeric 'figures' dial face.  : )

[andy1702]

What's the figure only dial plate for? Your phone appears to be a 248L (unless I'm missing something) which means the lettered plate already fitted is correct. If the phone was refurbished in 1965 there is a slight possibility  the lettered plate may be plastic, but that would be right for the period and more historically correct that fitting one that's figure only.

If this phone is a "bitsa" then you might be better off removing the current base and converting it to a normal phone and bell set if you want it to work. I'm no expert with these old extension systems though, so somebody with more knowledge than me might be able to advise you better.

[Jack Ryan]

Might not be workable for GPO/AE 'hybrid' since the latter is higher voltage.

I forget what AE system you had in mind but this is just a telephone with a switch plus DC signalling - it is not a key system.

1.) Anyone know what the markings on bottom of bellset mean, or how old it might be?

Square bit of paper on it reads, "BS 44 FNR 65/2"

The Bellset was refurbished in the GPO factory at Edinburgh in 1965

2.) Technical assistance if want to try to get indicator to work?

Properly connected, the indicator will work without additional wiring, parts or exchange facilities.

3.) Since AE out of the picture, would any GPO 300 series work, or need specialized one such as a 306 or 312?

Definitely not a 312. I posted a link previously for the configuration N diagram that shows the extension phones (N4308 page 3). The extensions are normal CB auto telephones but with a call button to signal the main station. One is:

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/n_diagrams/0000/N428.pdf (a Tele 328)

http://www.britishtelephones.com/t328.htm

The 328 can be configured with up to three buttons for various purposes. In this case, you need a single call button.

There is an alternative listed that is the same but with a different bell

Regards
Jack

[Slal]

@Andy

What's a "bitsa?"   Franken-phone or something that's been botched? 

You're right about authenticity of course.  428L should have letters.  Numbers only just a matter of taste.  Will save the original of course.

With no buzzer though, it might very well be a bitsa.  (Or a botched job by seller)

Are 'spares' like that common in England?  Would like to have it as accurate as possible & need a buzzer if seller has tossed it in recyle bin.

@Jack

Thanks for heads up about the 312.  Not as easy as just a button on top. 

Will need to print diagrams & copy by hand to trace where everything needs to go.  Also have to go to parts store for wire & spade tips to reconnect phone to bell set.  (All connections chopped but at least I have a clue about wire colors.)

Meanwhile, your mentioning AE intercom got me curious.  Never got around to testing it-- mainly wanted BE and the handsets.

The wiring inside them doesn't match the diagram tucked inside (AO-1169 attachment.)

Getting interesting .  : )   

[Jack Ryan]

What's a "bitsa?"   Franken-phone or something that's been botched? 

Yes, made of mismatched parts, Heinz 57 varieties...

428L should have letters.

Tele 328 of course, 428 is the 'N' (diagram) number

Are 'spares' like that common in England?

I don't know. Certainly not in Australia.

Will need to print diagrams & copy by hand to trace where everything needs to go.  Also have to go to parts store for wire & spade tips to reconnect phone to bell set.  (All connections chopped but at least I have a clue about wire colors.)

Buzzer and buttons are add-ons - the rest is pretty much standard 332 (the standard subscriber telephone).

Meanwhile, your mentioning AE intercom got me curious.  Never got around to testing it-- mainly wanted BE and the handsets.

BE?

The wiring inside them doesn't match the diagram tucked inside (AO-1169 attachment.)

The diagram shows a station from something like a 32A47 intercom system. Is uses an IC receiver and has no dial but it does have a button.

The extension phone you need is closest to a standard telephone with a button & buzzer - I would use a 332 (or a WE 302) and make a box with button etc to make the system work while you look for the correct phone.

Regards
Jack

[unbeldi]

The wiring inside them doesn't match the diagram tucked inside (AO-1169 attachment.)

The diagram shows the type number as L-1169-A0.  Why are you changing it ?
I am curious about exactly what kind of equipment this is.  It appears to be an intercom of the late 1930s to early 1940s.

[Jack Ryan]

The diagram shows the type number as L-1169-A0.  Why are you changing it ?
I am curious about exactly what kind of equipment this is.  It appears to be an intercom of the late 1930s to early 1940s.

I am curious as well - what does the phone look like?

I said: The diagram shows a station from something like a 32A47 intercom system. Is uses an IC receiver and has no dial but it does have a button.

If the diagram doesn't match the actual circuit I am thinking that someone has converted it to ... something else.

Jack