AE tt 10 button

[whatchitfoool]

Hello, all!
I come seeking the board's collective knowledge, which everyone seems so eager to generously share.

I'm trying to identify more information on a touch tone dial pad, and hopefully track down a few replacements.

The one I have was made by Automatic Electric.  The manufacturing date would have to have been prior to 1971 on my unit. I'm not sure how long they produced the dial pads or the units they went into.
I'm under the impression they can be found in AE Autovon sets, AE 890's, and AE western Union data sets.

I'd love to hear of any other sets that have the AE "numbers only", no text on the buttons. 
Feel free to mention other pads that look visually similar, too.  I fear tracking down the AE 10 button may be a challenge.

Please let me know if more photos could be of any use.

-Gary

[AE_Collector]

Hi Gary:

Welcome to our forum. An interesting topic to get your arrival here underway.

Is it specifically AE 10 button rather than 12 button touch pads that you are interested in? You will run into them occasionally but they are pretty rare. The first picture below might be the only AE 10 button touchpad that I have other than my AE Autovon set. And yes, that is my only "fuzzy" Starlite that it is installed in. Fuzzy phones were created by some company refurbishing old discoloured plastic phones with this process yet I have no idea how it was fine. I got this on eBay and still kick myself got not grabbing a second one that was rotary dial and blue fuz listed by the same seller.

Or maybe it isn't AE 10 button touchpads but numbers only touchpads that you are looking for more info about? Second picture below is my AE Autovon set that indeed is numbers only and 10 button (sort of).

But maybe it us really the very old style of these early AE touchpads that interests you the most. They really were *Crap* but us collectors don't care about that aspect of their design! The third picture is my 890 "data set" that indeed has the same old vintage touchpad but in an early 12 button model sporting a different looking "Star" and a "Diamond" rather than a "Pound" or "Octothorp" or is it a "Hash" these days?

Terry

[whatchitfoool]

Thank you for the pictures, Terry!
The fuzzy phone is awesome,btw.

Let me explain a bit more; I'm donating my time to a museum, working on a large restoration project. The 10 button numberpad was installed in some government equipment in the early 1970's. Some need a good cleaning, others are missing and need replaced. Unfortunately, I cant really share anymore information about it (yet, I think).

So Its not all AE touchpads I'm looking into,its specifically a numbers only style like In my pictures or on the AE autovon.  I could remove the A key to make it fit for use, for example, from an autovon set.
I have the 10 button dial face plates, so that is not an issue.  Hopefully I can find some numberpads NOS or salvage some from undesirable sets.

Information is also welcomed, about the "numbers only" pad or the pad like in the 890 data set.  Information like what sets had the pads, manufacturing dates, catalog numbers, part diagrams/schematics, etc.
I've seen people make mention to the fact that this early AE touchpads are of poor design, but that is never explained; does anyone have facts on the matter?

If tracking down replacements turns out to be undoable, does any visually similar "numaric only pads" exist?


-Gary

[paul-f]

Welcome Gary!

Check out this topic for a similar wire matrix dial that needed major repair.

   http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3239.msg42981#msg42981

Apparently this design was subject to all sorts of failure modes including contact misalignment and contact point corrosion. Problems could be created or exacerbated by rough handling in shipping, dropping, etc.

I wonder how they fared in a government installation. Hopefully they weren't deployed in national security applications!

Unfortunately, there aren't many "undesirable" Autovon sets to use as dial donor sets.

Numbers only dials were also extensively used in the teletype network, but I haven't seen many installations using AE numbers only dials.

[AE_Collector]

I think that as Paul says, it is going to be very difficult to find the touchpads that you need to use in your project, assuming that it isn't a "cost is no object" project!

If it is to replicate the look and keeping the cost down is important, maybe you already have the most important part, the 10 hole faceplates. You could use modern AE numbers/letters touchpads with the star and pound buttons removed. The faceplates will cer those holes. Then all you are left to replicate is the numbers only aspect and I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't sand the numbers and letters off the buttons and then have numbers only painted back on. If for show only the fact that painted numbers would eventually wear off wouldn't be a factor.

I have never investigated but I assume that the letters/numbers in touchpad buttons are not molded in like they were on dial number rings. I think there are just indents with ink in them. Does anyone know for sure?

The function of the more modern touchpads in your project would be better than the old ones so that might be a plus for you if the device actually needs to work.

Terry

[paul-f]

I have never investigated but I assume that the letters/numbers in touchpad buttons are not molded in like they were on dial number rings. I think there are just indents with ink in them. Does anyone know for sure?

Terry,

I know Western Electric molded the numbers in, and suspect AE and others did as well.

[AE_Collector]

Thanks Paul. I know tgat dial number rings were made that way but had never thought about push buttons. So to make cost effective numbers only buttons from number/letter buttons for Gary's project maybe painting out the letters with carefully matched paint.  That would leave numbers that are smaller than on a proper numbers only button so the only way around that might be to paint the entire button top and repainted the numbers back on. I guess tgat it all comes down to how identical looking the touchpads need to be to the originals.

Ray Kotke had a buch of 10 button Touchpads in Starlite phones from tgat train depot find. They probably all found new homes by now. They may have been the early AE touchpad design as well but likely were numbers and letters so they would still need to be turned into number only buttons.

I am not certain if Gary indicated tgat they actually need DTMF touchpads versus just the buttons and switch matrix for his project.

Terry

[whatchitfoool]

Great stuff Paul and Terry!

As far as what will work electronically,  The answer is anything I want to spend the time on.  I design electronics.


The buttons on the AE touch pads are molded from behind.  More accurately, the first mold of the button is in black; it is the shape of the button as a whole and the number.  Then, the white is injection molded over that.
I've highlighted in red where the black plastic is.
That would be the opposite of how Western did it, making the button white and then pressing the black in from the outside.

Wear is a big concern. They will be pressed, and I can't dismantle each piece in the future to repaint the numbers.

It looks like I may have to search hard for or contract out manufacturing of 'external visuals' accurate replacements.  I'm not going to tear down (10+) $300-$500 sets for numberpads. Wouldn't want to ruin cool vintage gear

-Gary

[paul-f]

That would be the opposite of how Western did it, making the button white and then pressing the black in from the outside.

Not to split hairs, but most Western Touch Tone dials are gray with white letters. The Princess and some other sets used white or translucent white with black letters and numbers. The Design Line sets show some other variations, including some of the above plus:

Telstar - black with white
Elite Commemorative: chrome and black

  http://www.paul-f.com/weDesignLine.html#Telstar

[poplar1]

As far as what will work electronically,  The answer is anything I want to spend the time on.  I design electronics.

If it would interest you, many of us have need for a compact Dial Pulse to DTMF converter, with modular connections,  that can go between an ATA, MagicJack, etc. and the house wiring, so that one converter is sufficient for a whole house.
Dialgizmo is a similar product, but the company is in Australia and refuses to respond to customer emails.