About a month ago I bought a 202 with an E1 handset on eBay. It was my second 202, the first being fitted with an F1 handset. This new one is my first contact with an E1. Anyhoo, the handset cord was in relatively good condition, with only one spot of outer covering going bare. I whipped it with brown thread and thought that would be the end of the fraying. Unfortunately, since I'm using this one as a "daily driver," the rest of the cotton outer covering is shredding--I guess 75 year old dry cotton just isn't up to the task of daily service.
I'd like to replace the mounting cord and handset cord with new ones from House of Telephones, but I've been holding off because I can't get the E1 to come apart (surprise). Both bakelite caps come off, but I can't get the rest of the stuff loose to put a new cord on. Does anybody have any tips on getting these things apart without a set of E1 wrenches? I've doused all the cracks with WD40 to try to loosen things, but that didn't work at all.
Bingster, I have recently worked on an E1 handset that had the same problem. They often do. They are often damaged by people trying to use those wrenches that fit in the little holes. A strap wrench works best. There was a fellow from the TCI selling them 8 or 10 months ago. His name is Ray Kotke adn he does have a web site (http://www.telephonecreations.com/). Now with the sales pitch out of the way for a strap wrench, one of which I do not own, I have had great success using a hair dryer to warm the cap. This method works great for plastic caps that get stuck on the Bakelite G1 handsets. It also will work on Bakelite on Bakelite. The handset that I just cleaned and replaced the cord on is a seamless E1. I almost gave up but finally got it to free. You only need to remove the mouth piece end to replace the cord. I just lay the tip of the hairdryer about 4 inches from the stuck piece. I let it blow for a good five to ten minutes then give it a try. I used one of those rubber "cloths" that are for opening lids on new jars of pickles or whatever. If you try it several times and it still won't budge I have also come up with the next step. I take a large zip lock freezer bag. I put the handset inside the bag and then stick the nose of the hair dryer into the bag. The bag will inflate like a hood and trap in the heat to make the part even warmer. That and WD 40 in the crack (like you've already done) did the trick for me and the cap came off. Keep an eye on the bag while doing that...I've melted a bag before but it won't hurt the handset. If you can't get it off that way you may have to resort to the strap wrench. They're about $20 from Ray.
Bingster, I've been wondering if you tried the hair dryer technique. The suspense is killing me!
I don't own a hair dryer. :D I keep my hair pretty short, so I haven't had one in probably twenty years. But! I'm going to try the reverse tonight. Instead of heating up the transmitter end, I'm going to try dropping a few ice cubes in the aluminum transmitter cup, and see if it shrinks the metal enough that I can turn it. If that doesn't work I'm going to invest in a strap wrench. There's one on eBay for around five bucks including shipping right now.
I've heard of people putting them in the freezer too. I've tried that with not much success. The only purpose I have for a hair dryer is to get stuck Bakelite caps off handsets! ;D I had hair once that could have benefited from a hair dryer, but not any more.
Well, I think it's a strap wrench for me. I mentioned before that I could get both caps off the handset, and since it's equipped with the newer F1 transmitter, that came out, too. With the transmitter out, there's nothing in the transmitter end that could be damaged by water, so I figured my ice trick wouldn't hurt the thing too much.
I decided that, in addition to cooling the aluminum cup, it would add an extra bit of effectiveness to heat the bakelite first. But how to do that? I'll admit that caveman logic took over and the first method I used for heating the bakelite was sitting on the transmitter end for a while. I don't recommend this method. It doesn't heat the plastic enough, and it's not very comfortable.
Then it occurred to me that since I was getting the thing wet with ice cubes anyway, I'd just to run that end under the water faucet, gradually going from lukewarm to hot. After doing this, I got the plastic good and warm, and then took some ice cubes and held them in the aluminum cup. The cup got cold right away, and I could fee victory within reach, but despite my best efforts at turning the cup, nothing would budge. Nothing at all.
I thought about trying a pipe wrench with lots of padding, but decided aluminum threads are far too delicate for that to be feasible. So a strap wrench it is. I might look for a cheap one this weekend, instead of waiting for ebay shipping. We'll see.
Bingster, I remembered that I took some pictures as I worked on the E1 handset that I bought in August. If it helps any I'll post a couple here. I'm sticking with the hair dryer method. I know you said you don't have one but I'm sure they're pretty cheap at K-Mart, WalMart, Target, etc. But a strap wrench will still be handy. The problem is you need to be able to grip it, thus the rubber "cloth" that I used to get the grip. You also need to protect the palm of your hand from the threads that are exposed after removing the cap. This seamless E1 was in very nice condition when I got it but the handset cord had seen better days. It now sports one of Odis LeVrier's reproduction cords. Anyway, here are a couple of photos.
Yep, I was laughing at that, too. It made sense at the time. Kinda. ;)
Thanks for the photos, Dennis, they do help clear up a couple things about how the parts fit together. I didn't realize the spacer was threaded onto the aluminum. I had assumed it was held in place by the compression of the aluminum part being tightened down onto the handset.
It also explains why my experiment didn't work. It appears that the aluminum threads onto the outside of the brass flange. Cooling the aluminum just clamped it tighter.
I wasn't sure if that would help you or not. But when I first took one apart I kind of did it blindly. I'm always reluctant to force anything that doesn't want to move...we all what happens next---it breaks! I have heard of guys snapping the handset in two by holding the receiver hand in one hand and cranking on the other end. I am always careful to try and not do that too. I've thought of the vice-grips, channel locks, etc., but am always afraid of leaving bite marks. I guess the strap wrench is the safest way to grip it....but I still think heat applied to the isolated part, along with a dose of WD 40 helps. The strap wrench minus the heat is not as effective, in my opinion as the strap wrench with heat applied before hand. As Dennis Miller would say, "...that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...". ;D
Well Bingster, I now find myself in the same position as yourself. Just yesterday a 302 was shipped to me with an E1 handset on it. The owner of the phone wants me to do a refurbish job on it. I heated the darn thing up this afternoon, doused it with WD40 and for the life of me I can't get the aluminum piece off. I'm hoping that the WD40 will soak in over night and I'll try again. Otherwise, I'm going to have to get me one of those newfangled strap wrenches and hope for the best!
Go easy with the strap wrench. You'd be surprised how fast things can go wrong using it. Ask me how I know :P Like crushing the aluminum, or worse. Heat it up as suggested, and go slowly and carefully!
First, strap wrenches are available in several sizes in the Plumbing section of a big-box hardware store, and maybe your local hardware store.
Second, last week I used a strap wrench to get the bakelite parts of an E1 handset apart. It took substantial force, but then, I had a pretty small strap wrench. Most important, it didn't damage or break anything. BTW, I had used penetrating oil followed by the dance of a thousand tap-tap-taps to try to lube the threads - nothing.
Third, I was warned not to try to get the aluminum cup out of the bakelite cap. And I suddenly wondered WHY I wanted to get it out? In my case, I had a 395 module that was badly packed, and I thought I needed to replace it. But on the advice of others, I whacked the aluminum housing a few times, and it unpacked the module quite nicely. If you have an F1 transmitter in your handset, I've been told that they are very reliable and hardly ever need replacing. And replacement of the transmitter capsule is the only reason to try to get the aluminum housing out.
Just my thoughts
Bill
Hi Bill, Normally I'm of the mind that things shouldn't be taken apart if they're not broken, so I'm with you in principle. But I'm dealing with the only other reason to get the aluminum cup out... To replace the handset cord. I'm using the phone for daily service, and the original isn't holding up at all well.
Bingster -
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your dilemma. When I took my E1 handset apart, I ended up with the "spitcup" containing the aluminum housing in one hand, and the handset itself in the other hand. The handset looked like the third and fifth pictures in Dennis' sequence above. The ends of the wires are clearly exposed in the threaded brass part of the handset.
What I was warned not to do was to try to get the aluminum housing out of the spitcup. I had wanted to get it out so I could replace the transmitter module - but there are no wires in there.
Are you saying that you got the spitcup (transmitter module cover) and the bakelite trim ring off the handset, but the aluminum housing is stiuck in the brass housing? If so, that is an entirely different situation that I encountered, and you can safely ignore my posts. That happens a lot.
Bill
Very close, Bill. What I've got is the spitcup itself off, along with the little holed plastic screen. The aluminum and the plastic spacer are still firmly stuck to the handset.
My E-1 handset looks just like the one pictured by Bingstar (above post). Appreciate all the previous posts, but am still quite confused. Need to get into the handset to replace the cord, which has been cut off. Can anyone provide step-by-step instructions about how to further dissasemble the handset in order to replace the cord? The talk and listen ear pieces come off easily, but nothing below them (threaded mountings) can be moved. Perhaps a pictoral of the construction of the handset would help those of us trying to open it up. TIA.
BOB
Funny you should post about this today, Bob, as my ultimate solution was waiting for me on the doorstep when I got home from work tonight. I broke down and got a set of Western Electric E1 handset wrenches, and I finally got my handset apart effortlessly in no more than thirty seconds. Given their price, I don't know if I'd recommend this approach or not, but I have to say I'm not regretting the purchase.
1) Here are a couple pictures to show what you'll see as the pieces come apart. The first step would be to remove the caps, as you already have, and as I showed in the picture in the post above. Next the aluminum parts come out with their black spacers:
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/step2.jpg)
2) From there, the spacers can be removed from the aluminum parts, leaving you with this:
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/bingsterdc/step3.jpg)
The aluminum transmitter part threads onto the outside of the brass ring at the cord end, while the aluminum receiver part threads onto the inside of the brass ring at the other end.
And as a last resort, here's where I got my handset tools:
http://www.oldphoneworks.com/western-electric-e1-handset-tool-kit.html
The handset tools look like they could be readily adopted from a set of point spanner wrenches, such as those used to disassemble camera lenses.
Microtools sells an "economy" version for $15 that I think probably, could, with some filing, be used very nicely.
If I had an E-1 handset, I would try it.
Here's the link to the microtools one I have in mind
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=SPP --> ( dead link 7-18-17 )
Hi gang. When we started this thread I too was experiencing problems getting mine apart. My phone collector friend, Mark Scola brought over his strap wrench the other day and in 20 seconds he had the aluminum piece off of the handset. His wrench has a thick rubber strap. It took very little force to remove each end of the handset. I had given it a pretty good soaking with WD 40 ahead of time. The hair dryer did not do the trick. (I still like that method for removing both plastic and Bakelite caps from either ABS plastic or Bakelite).
He said strap wrenches are available at stores such as Home Depot, Lowes, etc. I need to get one myself. But that did the trick. The trouble with those wrenches that fit into the little holes, they often chip the hole. How many E1's have we seen with the holes chipped on the edges or widened out? A few.
Dennis
I have a strap wrench, and it has been one of the best telephone tools I've had.
I have a couple of black 500s with G1 handsets that have thermoplastic caps. On every single one of them, I'm unable to get the caps off without the aide of my strap wrench.
I've also had a couple of other stubborn caps, and the strap wrench did the trick every time.
Somewhere or another, I've run in to an original Bell system strap wrench. Apparently, they were, at one time, part of a field repairman's tool kit.
I thought about the strap wrench today. Realized that I had an oil filter wrench (about same thing) in the garage that I had glued some rubber inside the strap in order to work on some small diameter oil filters. This cheap/modified wrench worked perfectly to remove the transmit section, exposing the wiring connections (R-W-BK). Will need to reduce the wrench diameter further in order to remove the listening section. Bet you can get one at Wal-Mart real cheap (mine is old), and modify it to work. Is this really needed in order to replace the three wire cord that goes from the handset to the base? Additional questions - all the connecting wires are disconnected from the handset to the base and to the dial mechanism. The base has terminals marked GN, W,BK,Y, on one side, and R on the other. The dial has terminals marked Y, BK, BB, and R. How do I connect the wires? Where can I purchase the correct wiring harnesses? Looked at PHONECO, but there wiring descriptions are confusing to me. TIA.
BOB
You can head over to House of Telephones for your cords. You'll need a three conductor handset cord and a four conductor "desk stand" cord (which is called a "mounting cord" by the Bell System). They're beautiful cords, and well worth the price. You can get cords from other vendors, but they all get them from house of telephones, so you may as well go to the source. > www.houseoftelephones.com <
Also, please note that D-mount (and older) telephones need a subset to work properly. If you don't have a proper subset, you can make do by using an old telephone as a subset. In fact, there's a thread here about doing just that. If you connect the telephone directly to the line, the phone will work, but the longer it's used this way, the weaker the receiver will become. The reason is that too much current is allowed to flow through the handset, and it demagnetizes the receiver, causing fainter and fainter sound. This kind of damage is irreversible.
You can check the diagram below for 202 wiring for B1 and D1 mounts:
It was a black and white drawing on one of the online telephone sites. I can't remember which site it was now, but I'll have a look for it. I "colorized" it so that it would be easier for me to trace the conductors. One note about the colors: The blue and purple dial cords should be black in reality, of course. I just picked other colors for the diagram to help differentiate them from the black conductors in the cords.
Nice job on that diagram, Bingster. I'm not sure how I would go about "colorizing" something like that. You must have a better tool than I do.
Bill
Easy to follow that's for sure. You should do the same with some of the other desk-stands including the candlestick. Then just note the fact about some of the colors changed for readability.
Thanks BDM. Should have mentioned this previously. I'm working on a WE model 202, round base. Marked B1 on back of base. It has an E1 handset. The metal portion of the transmit section is marked 625A and 8/34 (manufacture date?). Can't find any identification numbers on the dialer. The base needs to be repainted. What is the correct (spray) paint to use? What are the correct cord sets to purchase? This set was "rescued" from my grandparent's estate many, many years ago. I strored it away because I could not determine how to open the handset to replace it's cut off cord. Thanks to this forum, I have now opened the handset and am ready to do restoration. I do have a three wire (RD-YL-GN) round cable with spade ends and stain reliefs that I stored with the phone. Don't know where this fits into the wiring scheme. Thanks for all the forum assistance.
BOB
Bob, many collectors bake the paint on in the oven. It's been years since I've messed with paint. I honestly cannot say what to use. But, spray bombs probably shouldn't be used for correct and long term durability. Sorry I cannot help further.
Quote from: BDM on September 28, 2008, 12:49:47 PM
Easy to follow that's for sure. You should do the same with some of the other desk-stands including the candlestick. Then just note the fact about some of the colors changed for readability.
Even though I'll probably never need it, I did a matching diagram for an A-mount. They're the only two such diagrams I've ever found, though. I haven't been able to find the source of my diagrams, but I cropped the images from BSP pages found online (the older, small BSPs). If anybody has a set of those and could look for other "cording" diagrams, I'd be glad to to do the same with them.
Quote from: BOB BONCHAK on September 28, 2008, 07:08:54 PMI do have a three wire (RD-YL-GN) round cable with spade ends and stain reliefs that I stored with the phone. Don't know where this fits into the wiring scheme.
That sounds like a three-conductor mounting cord (the cord that goes from the phone to the subset). Those are fine, but better performance can be obtained from a four-conductor mounting cord. If you use the three-conductor cord, just ignore the placement of the mounting cord's black conductor in the diagram.
The red/yellow/green cord is a standard 3 conductor line cord. That would best be used from the subset to the wall jack. A 4 conductor "desk stand" cord work good from the phone to the subset for anti side-tone connection.
Speaking of cords, has anyone mentioned already that Odis LeVrier has sold his business effective November 01? The word from the ATCA is that he was recently hospitalized but is expected to fully recover (Diabetes) but has sold the business. From what I read on the ATCA List Serve the owner of Oldphoneworks, Don Woodbury. Here is the message current partner of Odis wrote to both the ATCA and TCI.
I am responding because Odis had to be rushed to the emergency room today. He had a reaction to his diabetes. I believe he is going to be ok. (could you please let others know to keep him in thoughts and prayers)
He is going to sell House of Telephones effective Nov. 1st. You can place orders up to then, but the sooner the better. Everyone is stocking up on their products while they know they are truly Odis's cords. (WE ARE SWAMPED WITH WORK!!!)
I will train the new owners employees in a couple of weeks, so they can (hopefully) continue to create our QUALITY and HIGH standards of telephone cords.
Sorry this email is not more elegant and to the point as Odis, but I'm still a bit emotional. If Odis does not respond to you please send me or call me for your orders. He may not be able to conduct proper business for a while.
Signed, Aaron Hess.
Dennis
Harbor Freight Tools has a two piece set of stap wrenches (Item 94119) on sale for $2.99 until 10/27. Work great in removing the round parts of handsets.
BOB
As Maxwell Smart would say, "The old handset wrapped in a towel and held next to the wood stove without cooking your hands to remove the frozen thermoplastic cap trick."
I just tried that today with two G1 handsets that have stuck transmitter caps. It worked like a charm with the first one. The stove was rip roarin' hot, so I didn't dare do it for more than 15 seconds at a time. Eventually, it occured to me that some gloves might make the process a little less uncomfortable. :)
I tried like heck for about 30 mins. on and off with the second one, but couldn't get it to budge. I even sprayed some WD-40 in there to try to loosen things up, -no dice.
I plan on getting one of those strap wrenches that everyone is raving about, but I don't know which one to get. Can anyone suggest a specific brand or type that's available on Ebay or at the Home Depot?
Thanks,
Tom
I stuck my handset in the freezer for about fifteen minutes. It worked great but now my girlfriend has given up on me and and I have to move to Southern Sicily.
I recommend a strap wrench.
I have to stick with my hair dryer method. ESPECIALLY with plastic caps on a Bakelite handset. Two minutes with the hair dryer and it will come off. I know you said you don't have one. I keep one under my work bench just for removing caps. I don't have enough hair to dry! :)
I need to replace the cord on my WE E1 handset but have been unable to unscrew the bottom portion of the transmitter cup from the body of the unit. I have removed the transmitter cap and transmitter but the next section is just too tight to remove. I have successfully removed it on several other E1 handsets but this one won't budge! Any suggestions?
What are the two small holes for on the body of the E1 on each side of the cup?
Thanks,
Bill at Rochrest
There is a thread, I can't find it that tells how to remove stubborn handset parts.
I'll keep looking, maybe someone else can find it.
D/P
D/P:
I think Dennis has successfully used a strap wrench to remove those stubborn caps.
Quote from: Rochrest on June 26, 2010, 02:05:21 PM
I need to replace the cord on my WE E1 handset but have been unable to unscrew the bottom portion of the transmitter cup from the body of the unit. I have removed the transmitter cap and transmitter but the next section is just too tight to remove. I have successfully removed it on several other E1 handsets but this one won't budge! Any suggestions?
What are the two small holes for on the body of the E1 on each side of the cup?
Thanks,
Bill at Rochrest
The two holes are for a special tool designed for E1 handsets. You can find them on Oldphoneworks, but they are expensive. If it's wedged in really tight, the tool won't help, and they have a tendency to slip and gouge the threads. I have an E1 like that, not even the tool worked on it.
http://www.oldphoneworks.com/western-electric-e1-handset-tool-kit.html (http://www.oldphoneworks.com/western-electric-e1-handset-tool-kit.html)
Update based on experience: These things are OLD, and not unusual to find one that was not kept in good environments and consequently may be beyond saving: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8710.msg97013#msg97013
I did finally have success with a strap wrench that I bought at Ace Hardware. It worked great after I spent a lot of time grunting and groaning trying to use a rubber "cloth", like for opening jars. With the strap wrench I had it off in seconds.
This is the one I bought:
http://tinyurl.com/28sgwly
I'm sure they have them at other hardware stores, Home Depot, etc.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I will try my trusty oil filter strap wrench first and if that doesn't work, I wil ask around for the tool you suggest. I should have thought of it myself.
Bill at Rochrest
Did U try heating it up some with the wife's hairdryer? You'll want to wear gloves to protect your hands from minor scorching while unscrewing it 'cause U want to grasp the cup and twist immediately upon removing the heat.
I think the bakelite/plastic will expand sooner then the aluminum. It should, as it has a lower melting point.
I've successfully loosened several obstinate handset cups n' stuff this way. Just don't "boil" it!!! Try about 20-30 seconds. That was all I needed. U might need to apply the heat more than once is all. I think I had to hit one of my handset cups twice before it "gave."
Duane
FWIW, it's helpful to keep 2 strap wrenches on hand. I've had E1 transmitter assemblies come off but I still had to separate the bakelite spitcup from the metal element holder. For really bad cases, you can try working in Liquid Wrench PROVIDED it's cleaned up right after you get everything apart. (I found out the hard way that this stuff leaves a dull gray residue on metal.)
Strap wrenches are also handy for taking apart stuck candlestick receivers. That cap has, after all, been stuck on for about 80 years.
Quote from: Rochrest on June 26, 2010, 09:46:20 PM
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I will try my trusty oil filter strap wrench first and if that doesn't work, I wil ask around for the tool you suggest. I should have thought of it myself.
Bill at Rochrest
Bill;
The caps are very fragile, a filter wrench will not have enough give and may shatter the caps or at least gouge them.
I think maybe you said Oil Filter wrench with tongue in cheek ?
D/P
I need to check out the receiver capsule in an E1 handset. With the help of a hairdryer and my trusty strap wrench, I got to the point shown in the picture. But I still don't have the capsule in hand. Where is it? I'm just checking - do I need to go one more layer, and unscrew the silver-metal part from the black cap - the part propped up on the rubber grommets? (It's like standing an egg on end!)
The last thing I want to do is break something by disassembling something that isn't supposed to disassemble.
And I'll take the opportunity to ask this. Once I get the capsule out, is there any way to "check it out"? I'm not sure that I will have an exact replacement to use as a substitute. The problem I'm experiencing is stupendously low volume in the earpiece.
Thanks
Bill
That is the most difficult part of an E1. More hair dryer/strap wrench work is about all that I can suggest, but you might try spraying something like WD40 into the threads and let it sit for a while first. There was a mention here recently about a product called Liquid Wrench. That might be good at loosening bond between the aluminum and the bakelite.
Have fun!
Larry
Bill, you can see the disassembled receiver element here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.15
Keep in mind there's no capsule, as was we know them from later phones. It is a magnetic receiver/diaphragm setup like was used in candlesticks, but miniaturized. You may need a pair of strap wrenches at this point, so you can twist each part in opposite directions at once.
As for the low volume, if you're using a subset, and you're sure the wiring is correct, it may be the case that a previous owner thought the main telephone was "plug and play," and had it wired directly to the line without a subset in between. Whenever that happens, the receiver element is weakened, sometimes to such a degree that it will produce no sound at all.
Was the receiver once working, and now all of a sudden the volume is very low, or did you get the phone in that condition. It could be a wiring issue, rather than the receiver itself.
If it does come to needing to check out the receiver, what I would do before trying to force the cap off is to get a couple of alligator test leads from Radio Shack, and connect the receiver via the test leads to a 500 receiver handset to see if you get regular volume out of the E1 receiver when hooked up that way. If you get regular volume, you first of all don't need to go any further with trying to remove the nasty cap, and secondly, you know that you need to look for a wiring issue in the phone or where the wires enter the base of the handset.
Thanks for the ideas, guys. I hadn't intended to get into the problem here, holding that for a separate discussion, but since you ask:
• I bought the phone and the 634A subset separately.
• The phone was dial-less, so I bought a 4H dial and had it tuned up by Steve Hilz.
• I haven't yet tried cleaning the dial contacts, and I don't know if Steve checks that.
• Neither unit was advertised as "working", and I just got them together for the first time yesterday.
• I'm quite sure the wiring is correct. I am an electroniker by profession. I used Bingster's excellent diagrams, and cross-checked against the TCI diagrams.
• I have individually checked the components in the subset. The 101A induction coil has the right winding resistances. Both capacitors show Open with an ohmmeter, as they should.
• In addition, the pseudo-capsule measures 32 ohms DC resistance, against a nominal 30 ohms.
• The phone actually works correctly. I get dial tone when coming off-hook, and it dials the number correctly, but the receiver volume is extremely low.
• The phone line (I have a modem on my cable TV line) works well with a POTS phone - a rotary-dial princess in this case.
I did not think of clip-leading another receiver into place, or clipping this receiver into another phone.. I will do that today. I think what I am hearing you say is that, although they have different physical configurations, they should all work more or less correctly, right?
The pictures you referenced show that the aluminum fitting is screwed into a brass insert, not directly into the bakelite. I didn't know that, and I find it encouraging.
Finally, I certainly don't want to break anything, but my natural curiosity makes me want to know how the pseudo-capsule is built. I had read that earlier miswiring could have demagnetized the magnet, and that is probably what happened. I have a vague thought that I could somehow mount a small high-strength rare-earth magnet on the original one, and get some performance back.
Short summary - thanks for the ideas. I'll be back!
Bill
Quote from: Bill on April 01, 2011, 12:07:44 PM
I think what I am hearing you say is that, although they have different physical configurations, they should all work more or less correctly, right?
Yes, absolutely correct.
OK, Bill, you hit the right approach. I clipped the E1 receiver "capsule" into a 500 set, and got very low volume in the E1 capsule. Then I clipped the 500 receiver capsule into the E1 handset, and got normal volume. Seems pretty clear that the problem is in the E1 receiver. And since the DC resistance is OK, it must be a low magnet.
So now my struggle to get it apart continues. I have only one strap wrench, and I agree that I may need another, so I'll have to see if I can borrow one somewhere.
Incidentally, I let the threads soak overnight in penetrating oil (Liquid Wrench). No results. Apparently aluminum-to-brass corrosion is a different animal than the steel that the product was designed for.
Incidentally again, neither the bakelite housing nor the aluminum insert has holes for a pin wrench.
Again, I'll be back.
Bill
Bill,
The low volume problem may be from the diaphragm not being able to vibrate properly. It may be too close or too far from the magnet or bent, or there may be some dirt or corrosion pushing against it.
Larry
Good thought, Larry. If I can get it apart, that's the first thing I'll check out.
Bill
Several minutes ago, I lifted the handset of my AE34, and the dial tone from the receiver was very faint. After the slightest tightening of the cap, the volume became very loud. The spacing and tension of the metal diaphragms is critical.
Larry
For reference, this image shows the parts and their relationships to each other better than my photos on the other page.
Bingster -
That was what I started out looking for! Thanks for digging it up for me! Per the diagram, it appears that my current problem is separating the "Receiver Case" from the "Cap", so that I can access the Diaphragm and the magnet. I'm getting really frustrated. Dry ice may be the next step, to shrink the aluminum.
Many thanks again - you are a great source of info and effort.
Bill
I had this same problem with the receiver cap on my E1.
I only have one strap wrench, and for this operation two are required in order to have any chance at success. I had to come up with an alternate method.
It may horrify some members to read about what I did, but here goes. The hair dryer procedure is a given. It didn't require much heat. But securing the assembly so I could use a strap wrench left me with only one option: putting the base of the receiver element in a vise. I cut sections from a cardboard paper towel tube to use as cushions and to protect the threads. I used to have 1/8" thick pieces of leather for this purpose, but they were somehow lost. I placed the element into the vise between the cushions and tightened only as much as was needed to keep the element from turning while I used the strap wrench to remove the cap.
After heating the cap with the hair dryer I gave removal a try and it was a cinch! The cap came loose with only moderate but steady effort. The heating and removal process took less than one minute. No harm done to the element itself or the cap. Nothing but a combination of heat and stability was required.
I'm intrigued with this idea of somehow mounting a small rare-earth magnet to strengthen the magnetic field in abused receivers.
Alternately, has anyone thought of setting up shop with a very strong electromagnet and some other tools, and offering to fully disassemble & re-magnetize receivers?
Going slightly off topic here, I noticed in the picture of Bill's handset that it still has the original style of "bullet" transmitter.
Bill, how is the transmission quality? Those "bullet" type elements have a bad reputation and I was talked out of one when I wanted to replace mine, so I went with the adapter for the F1 transmitter as shown in the exploded view that Bingster posted.
If you haven't yet held an actual conversation with a distant party using that handset, I would be interested to know how well and how clearly (or not) you could be heard on the other end.
I have to admit that I like being able to use my D1/E1 set like any other phone now that it has the F1 transmitter. Nobody I call has a clue that I'm using an 80 year old phone with a 75 year old F1 transmitter element. I got nothing but complaints with the "bullet" transmitter.
My experience is that they are as bad or worse than your average solid back transmitter. Knowing that the solid back was state of the art at the time, people were probably more than happy to have its sound quality with the convenience of a handset.
In my youth and stupidity, I once took one completely apart. They have a lot of pieces and are much more complex than its successor, the F1.
I currently have one (Not the one I trashed), and I have opted to use the F1 + adapter when using the phone.
Try baking in the oven at low heat, around 170 degrees followed by the double strap wrench. Then plunge the aluminum part into some ice water. Worked for me.
Yeah Bill, I opened up my bullet transmitter and only made things worse. I keep it around, but the F1 is the only way to go.
This is becoming what a movie reviewer would call an Epic Struggle Between Good and Evil!
I have only one strap wrench. Thought about buying another, but considering the amount of force I am using here, I'm not sure I could control two wrenches, even with the help of a burly neighbor.
As suggested, I baked the unit in a 200-degree oven, then plunged the aluminum cylinder into ice water and strap-wrenched it. I was hoping the thermal shock would loosen the bond between the aluminum and the brass. In addition, aluminum expands/contracts more than brass, so I was hoping the aluminum would shrink away from the brass. Good idea. No result.
I baked the unit again in a 200-degree oven, then poured a pool of penetrating oil on the joint and set it on the bench to cool overnight. The hope was that as it cooled, it would draw some oil into the corrosion. Good idea, no result.
I have a good solid bench vice. I used a couple hardwood blocks in the vice to pad the threads, and gripped the aluminum cylinder in the vice. No matter how tight I cranked down the vice, the cylinder slipped when I really leaned on the strap wrench on the bakelite cap.
Repeated the vice trick, using several thicknesses of shirt cardboard in place of the hardwood. Bunged up the threads some (I can touch them up with a small file), but the cylinder still slipped, and nothing else happened.
I am cranking so hard on this thing that I can hear the diaphragm ping as the parts deform under pressure. But I still can't get it off.
The thing that seems least controlled is my ability to grip the cylinder tight enough to prevent it from turning when I apply the strap wrench. Since it doesn't have grip holes, I drilled a couple, then put a "pin" (an 8-penny finish nail cut to length) across the cylinder. The hope was that the pin would stop the
cylinder from rotating. No good - the ends of the pin simply bent over. Lots of force here!
Dry ice is probably the next step, if I can find some.
Stay tuned. This turning into a real challenge, and I'm not done yet. But I'm growing fearful enough that I have ordered a set of replacement parts from OPW. By the way, I also ordered an F-1 transmitter capsule - on re-reading the posts above, do I need some sort of adapter in order to use it? Or does it just drop into the aluminum cylinder (625A) that holds the bullet transmitter capsule?
Bill
Use MaxFilm instead of Liquid Wrench or some other oil.
Chuck
You'll need to order the adapter and "grid" as well as the F1 transmitter. The "bullet" assembly is a single unit, whereas the F1 assembly has three components: the adapter, the capsule, and the "grid" or transmitter cover as shown in the exploded view.
Just to be sure, when you're using the vise to hold things in place, are you then heating the cap with a hair dryer before attempting to remove it with the strap wrench? That's what worked for me, but yours seems to be really stuck.
Recently Dan/Panther posted that he had good luck using lighter fluid to get two stuck parts separated from each other, so you might give that a try.
An old friend used to say to me "If force doesn't work, you haven't used enough." I had reached that point, and was prepared for the thing to break if I went further. It finally came apart, but I can't believe what it took.
I've got a good solid bench vise, bolted to my workbench. I've been squeezing the aluminum cylinder in that vise, using wood or cardboard padding, but no matter how hard I leaned into the vise handle, I couldn't get the vise tight enough to keep it from slipping. So I discarded the wood and cardboard, borrowed a pair of thick leather straps from my neighbor, put it all in a vise, and used an 18-inch cheater bar on the vise handle to get a really good grip on it. I'm surprised that the aluminum didn't deform, but it held solid.
Then I got my strap wrench on the cap, and leaned into it. You guessed it, the strap wrench began to slip. I cleaned both the wrench and the cap with alcohol, and tried again. Nope. Still slipped.
My neighbor watched all this, and as he wandered away, he jokingly suggested a pipe wrench. We agreed that it would certainly break the bakelite, but after thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized I was out of ideas, so I put in a couple thicknesses of shirt cardboard, put my 18-inch pipe wrench on the thing, and heaved. Very grudgingly, it begain to turn - and I got it off.
First thing I noticed is that the aluminum is threaded directly into the bakelite. There is no brass insert, at least on this one (date code 230). So there was no aluminum-brass corrosion, and all the corrosion dissolving chemicals in the world weren't going to help. In addition, it was threaded so tightly into the bakelite that no oil was ever going to get into it. In fact, when the aluminum cyclinder finally came loose, the peak of each thread in the bakelite sheared off and stayed with the aluminum. It is possible that dry ice might have shrunk the aluminum enough to release its hold on the bakelite, but refrigerator ice wasn't anywhere near doing it. And heat just made it worse, by expanding the aluminum and driving it deeper into the bakelite.
To my surprise, the magnet seems quite strong. I have no real experience with how strong it should be, but I can hang a 5/8-inch Craftsman combination wrench from the pole pieces. So it may turn out that the problem was simply a gunked-up diaphragm, as was suggested earlier. If so, there was no way I was going to clean it up without getting the whole thing open, so it was worth it. The diaphragm, incidentally, looks perfect. So I will reassemble, clip it into a 500-set, and try again. If volume is still low, I will try the rare-earth magnet trick, and report back.
I have reported all this simply to let others know that the thing can be REALLY hard to get apart, but that if you get desperate, a bit of excessive force might not be such a bad idea.
You can be sure I will put a thin coat of Vaseline on the threads before I reassemble it ...
Bill
Bill,
Congratulations on your success :) All of the E1 handsets I have seen have bakelite caps screwed onto aluminum. It seems that your cap was somehow fused to the aluminum.
Chances are, that if you clean all of the surfaces well and make sure that the diaphragm is perfectly flat, the receiver will work well after it is reassembled. Make sure that all of theelectrical contacts are clean from any dirt ans oxidation.
Larry
Wow, that was quite an ordeal! I once had one that (I'm guessing) must have been stored in a very humid environment, because all the aluminum had corroded to a point at which it was covered by a thick white powder and the steel had rusted. I wound up having to use a dremel and little nippers to cut/break the receiver case out of the cap.
Incidentally, the only major brass parts on an E handset are the two threaded pieces molded into the handset handle. Everything else is aluminum.
It seems that your magnet is quite ample and not demagnetized. It might be that the cap, while very tight on the aluminum body was still not screwed down all the way to achieve clamping of the diaphragm edges along the cup of the receiver. I know that is not what you wanted to hear, because I don't know how you could screw it on any more than it already was! You have probably already checked for signs that someone had screwed in on cross-threaded before. You may want to try just putting the diaphragm on the receiver cup and hole it in place with your fingers without the cap. Either put the receiver unit back on the E-1 handle and hold the diaphragm in place or use the clip lead routine. See if you get ample volume out of it that way. If so, it was probably not being held against the cup by the cap.
You should be able to remagnetize your element using neodymium magnets, available from guitar repair supply stores online, or wherever google leads you. You can adapt the instructions for remagnetizing guitar pickups
Bill G, you were right. I got the thing apart, cleaned up the diaphragm and the magnet poles, reassembled it, and it was fine. I was excited.
Unfortunately, the next step was to disassemble the transmitter, which made not a sound. Like the receiver, it was really stuck, so I put the force to it - and broke the cap. Not a real smash job, but broke a piece out of the side. I may be able to glue it, but it will never look quite right. I got a replacement from OPW, to be used whenever I get the thing apart. But for now, it is sitting in a box where I won't see it for 6 months - I have moved across the country for the summer.
Incidentally, my plan is to modify my bench vise into a pin-type phone disassembly wrench. Should be a simple mod - if it works, I'll post with pics. The price of a real pin wrench seems a bit out of my reach.
Bill
The situation I have is that the receiver cap is stuck onto the receiver element, and the diaphragm really needs to be adjusted. I've tried chemicals and tools and even a serpentine belt as something of a hand-held strap wrench, and I can't budge it the least bit. I've already done negligible damage to the threads that the ring goes on and I'm one step away from getting desperate and asking to send it to someone to have them try.
Quote from: BOB BONCHAK on October 17, 2008, 08:06:58 PM
Harbor Freight Tools has a two piece set of stap wrenches (Item 94119) on sale for $2.99 until 10/27. Work great in removing the round parts of handsets.
BOB
I'm going to order these. They're still $2.99, and today is the last day to get 20% off any one item, making them $2.39, or $4.79 with tax shipped to me.
Quote from: Bill on April 04, 2011, 05:27:27 PM
An old friend used to say to me "If force doesn't work, you haven't used enough." I had reached that point, and was prepared for the thing to break if I went further. It finally came apart, but I can't believe what it took.
I've got a good solid bench vise, bolted to my workbench. I've been squeezing the aluminum cylinder in that vise, using wood or cardboard padding, but no matter how hard I leaned into the vise handle, I couldn't get the vise tight enough to keep it from slipping. So I discarded the wood and cardboard, borrowed a pair of thick leather straps from my neighbor, put it all in a vise, and used an 18-inch cheater bar on the vise handle to get a really good grip on it. I'm surprised that the aluminum didn't deform, but it held solid.
Then I got my strap wrench on the cap, and leaned into it. You guessed it, the strap wrench began to slip. I cleaned both the wrench and the cap with alcohol, and tried again. Nope. Still slipped.
My neighbor watched all this, and as he wandered away, he jokingly suggested a pipe wrench. We agreed that it would certainly break the bakelite, but after thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized I was out of ideas, so I put in a couple thicknesses of shirt cardboard, put my 18-inch pipe wrench on the thing, and heaved. Very grudgingly, it begain to turn - and I got it off.
First thing I noticed is that the aluminum is threaded directly into the bakelite. There is no brass insert, at least on this one (date code 230). So there was no aluminum-brass corrosion, and all the corrosion dissolving chemicals in the world weren't going to help. In addition, it was threaded so tightly into the bakelite that no oil was ever going to get into it. In fact, when the aluminum cyclinder finally came loose, the peak of each thread in the bakelite sheared off and stayed with the aluminum. It is possible that dry ice might have shrunk the aluminum enough to release its hold on the bakelite, but refrigerator ice wasn't anywhere near doing it. And heat just made it worse, by expanding the aluminum and driving it deeper into the bakelite.
To my surprise, the magnet seems quite strong. I have no real experience with how strong it should be, but I can hang a 5/8-inch Craftsman combination wrench from the pole pieces. So it may turn out that the problem was simply a gunked-up diaphragm, as was suggested earlier. If so, there was no way I was going to clean it up without getting the whole thing open, so it was worth it. The diaphragm, incidentally, looks perfect. So I will reassemble, clip it into a 500-set, and try again. If volume is still low, I will try the rare-earth magnet trick, and report back.
I have reported all this simply to let others know that the thing can be REALLY hard to get apart, but that if you get desperate, a bit of excessive force might not be such a bad idea.
You can be sure I will put a thin coat of Vaseline on the threads before I reassemble it ...
Bill
Oh, my gosh! I think I have your receiver's identical twin. I'm needing to adjust (i.e., fiddle-fart with) the diaphragm to get a better sound, and it's stuck in the cap worse than anything I've seen before! I've tried hot, cold, loosening sprays, and right now it's wrapped in a serpentine belt and secured in a vise waiting on me to take it to work with me tomorrow and borrow a pipe wrench to do almost exactly what you described here. I also have some strap wrenches on the way, but if they arrive too late for this project, I know I'll have countless others.
One of the members of ATCA came up with an easy to make wood jig to disassemble E1's. I have a file at home, I will try to find it and post it here.
Harry -
This must be a jig similar to the one in Ralph Meyer's book. I plan to fab one in the next couple weeks. Wish I had seen it before I broke my second E1. Anyway, we'll see if it is similar to the one you mention. ANYTHING should be better than a pipe wrench.
Bill
As noted in the other E1 thread, there is a pretty simple wooden disassembly jig described in Ralph Meyer's book. I plan to fab one within the next week or so, and we can see how it works. In the meantime, don't break anything!
Bill
We got it apart, but we scratched the cap a little bit somehow. It's not bad, but I may try to restore it later. I have some other scratched and chipped Bakelite items that I would like to... I digress. The problem here is that the cap was screwed on way too tightly. I'm thinking that is what was causing the poor sound: The cap was so tight it was restricting the free vibration of the diaphragm. Now everything sounds great!
Update:
As reported above, I have had four E1 handsets on my workbench. Two came apart nicely, but I broke two of the caps on the others, trying to get them apart. And wouldn't you know it, the ones I broke were the early unseamed caps. I've used two strap wrenches, a vise, a pipe wrench, numerous chemicals and lubricating solutions, ice, ice water, my oven, a hair dryer, a heat gun, plus baking, chilling, rappin' and tappin', a burly neighbor, and a full-blown exorcism by a Belgian priest. Two of them still wouldn't come apart. This can't continue. So with the somewhat skeptical blessing of my good wife, I ordered the two-piece pin wrench set from OPW. It took a month for it to arrive, and two minutes to prove that - THEY WORK better than anything so far! No more broken E-1's for me! Hallelujah!
So now I am left with two broken caps. Not smashed to bits, but a chunk broken out of each by an over-zealous strap wrench. Has anyone had success using some kind of epoxy (I imagine) to rebuild the missing piece? Or am I dreaming?
Bill
That chip can be fixed with JB Weld.
Chuck
Aha! Seems to me you did some work like that on a broken something. I'll dig up your thread and see what I can do. Since I don't have the broken-out chip, I will be rebuilding the missing piece from the ground up. That will be exciting!
Edit: Found it! My search on "epoxy" didn't bring up anything I recognized, but "weld" did it. Thanks, Chuck.
Bill
Since today was a holiday I, of course, spent part of the day working on a phone. I disassembled and cleaned a customers E1 handset. First of all if you are going to disassemble one of these you need to get strap wrenches! I have fought with some in the past and even given up on a few, only cleaning from the outside. I recently purchased 2 from an ATCA member who was offering them cheap because I could not get the mouthpiece loose on this one. With the strap wrenches it was loose in seconds! The member who offered them sold out quickly but I did a quick search on Google and found they are still offered by the manufacturer, Sloan, here:http://www.sloanplumbingparts.com/sloan-ebv-22-strap-wrench
This handset came from the customer with an extra mouthpiece since the original was chipped and when I got them both apart I noticed something I had not caught before. Both have F1 elements dated less than a year apart but they are made totally different. Frome the front they look identical but the back is made completely differently, see pics below. The 1940 one is smooth and the 1941 has cast ribbibg. I am assuming this was done to save weight as the 1940 element weighs 2.2 ounces and the 1941 element weighs 1.8 ounces.
A few notes on cleaning to follow in another post.
In continuation: I spent several hours cleaning this handset. After the usual wash in warm water and dish soap I did the also usual wipe down with an alcohol wipe. I could not belive the amount of crud that came out of the grooves and the tool pin holes! I spent hours and used a bunch of wipes, first with a toothpick followed by a small pocket screwdriver scraping the grooves and holes until the alcohol wipe remained clean. My wife says it is OCD. Has anyone else here spent time cleaning the grooves and pin holes of a handset? Am I crazy?
Yes. And Yes. ;D (Aren't we all?) ;)
I visited a parts site recently but can't remember which one, and as I recall they provided the option of choosing an earlier type smooth-backed F1 capsule or the later cast ribbing type. Your 1940 is the latest dated smooth-backed type that I've seen.
I know exactly what you mean Harry. I remember in-particular an early G1 handset I was cleaning that had the grooves so caked with gunk they were almost completely filled in to the level of being flush with the rest of the handset! It takes a lot of patience to get them cleaned out to look good while not scraping up the handset. I use acid brushes with the bristles cut off short, those work very well for a lot of different things. ---Eric
I've got one of each type, the smooth type in my 302 (1938), and the ribbed type in the WE handset (date unknown) which used to be on my SC1242 until I got the correct type. I can't remember which type were in the two Leichs.
I recently ordered one of the new unused ones from Oldphoneworks, and got something quite different again. Note the two small projections on top. The sealed packaging was quite an art; it seemed a shame to open it, but now it is open at least the inside can be seen. There seem to be several different versions of the T- 1 as well
Edit:
I've just looked, and the Leich 90 (1951) and 615 (1952) both have the ribbed type. The dates are from the elements, but in both cases the receiver and transmitter match. Do these dates sound reasonable for the telephones as well, or have the elements been replaced during refurb at some type? I believe that Leich made their own transmitter at one time.
Interestingly, the HA-1 receivers are different; one connects via spring contacts, while the other has spring terminals.
OK guys, fess up!
How many of you read this and went right to your collection to check the grooves on your phones? ;D
Quote from: HarrySmith on September 08, 2011, 09:14:33 PM
OK guys, fess up!
How many of you read this and went right to your collection to check the grooves on your phones? ;D
Well, I at least looked over to my left at the 3 seamed E1s sitting here. The grooves used to be invisible, now they look dirty. ;D
An associated question. I have 2 or 3 seamed (grooved) E1 spitcups, and 2 without seams. In all cases, the seamed ones have the tool holes, while the unseamed ones do not. And the aluminum pieces that are threaded into them follow the same pattern. Was this a luck-of-the-draw thing, or was there a design change at some point that added the tool holes at the same time it added the grooves?
In order to get one of the spitcups apart, I was planning on drilling tool holes since nothing else worked including strap wrenches. But if this is an authenticity thing, I may have to rethink.
Bill
I wouldn't drill tool holes; a) you might not get them quite right and then they look nasty, b) they might not be sufficient to enable you to unscrew the handset and thereby lead to breaking something, and c) some of the folks here who are strong advocates for not damaging original equipment will think you're a barbarian who should be avoided.
Instead try this. It sounds a little scary but it worked for me with a stuck F1 handset:
Get a hairdryer. Turn it on to the 1000 watt or 1,200 - 1,500 watt setting and blow the hot air all around the outside of the stuck part. Do this until it begins to get warm and then try unscrewing it by hand or with the strap tool. If still no-go, keep up with the heat, EVENLY applied around the entire outer circumference of the part, until it gets hot but not too hot to touch. Try unscrewing by hand or strap tool again.
After that, if it still doesn't come off, keep up the heat application but NOT to make the parts get hotter, only to keep them the same "not too hot to touch" level of heat, but with that level of heat applied for a longer TIME so the parts have a chance to stay at that level of heat for a longer time. Keep trying every minute or two, to unscrew by hand or using a strap tool.
Another thing to try during the heating process is to occasionally stop heating the parts, and take a screwdriver with rubberized cover on the handle, or some similar tool or a small piece of wood, and GENTLY tap on the stuck part, all around its circumference. This can break the bond of dirt or film that got into the screw threads. Gentle repeated tap-tap-taps are better than stiff knocks, because you don't want to shatter the bakelite.
I was skeptical of the heat method at first, but it worked. However, use it on bakelite and on metal parts only. Do NOT use it on "soft plastic" components or on the later thermoplastic components, because it can cause them to warp and that is non-recoverable damage. Also do NOT put phone stuff in the oven to heat it, because that is not something you can control very well and you could end up with burned or melted components. And do NOT use one of those "paint removal guns" that looks like a souped-up chrome hairdryer, as those put out much too much heat for this purpose.
I just disassembled another E-1 handset today. This one was really tough, but eventually yielded to the pin wrenches, one of which was held in my bench vise. When I got it apart, I saw why it was tough. The threads on the aluminum insert had been partially coated with what looks like blue Loctite! Why?? Who?? Dunno. Anyway, I got it done.
Bill
Bill- Possibly it was used on a payphone, and the blue glue was a means of preventing mean people from tampering with it?
I had an E1 receiver cap that was so tough, I had to cut it off the handset with a dremel tool. Once the cap was off, the reason became apparent: The aluminum had become severely corroded and had swelled inside the cap, not only locking the cap in place but locking the aluminum to the handset handle (it had to be cut off, too).
I wired up a 202 with a E1 handset. The dial works, the mouthpiece is great but I can only hear oh-so-faintly. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but assuming I can disassemble the earpiece, what am I looking for? What can I fix?
I had this problem with my E1. It turned out that the receiver cap was on so tight that the diaphragm could not vibrate like it's supposed to. It took strap wrenches to get the cap loose, but I'm glad I did because it sounds so much better now!
The diaphragm is just a little thin steel circle that's held in place—and made to vibrate—by the magnet in the receiver.
Wow!
I just read through this whole ordeal, it was very fascinating and enlightening, and I have to tell you...I'm totally exhausted! I think I need to sit down and take a long break :D
Bill,
Your descriptive was excellent. I felt like I was there hands on through every little detail of the whole process. The in dept details and the valuable input from others was also excellent. Great job!
And to help keep anyone from feeling like they're going to be walking down a dark blind alley, I would suggest anyone who is going to open up an old E1 handset, read this forum blog first.
Ken
On the subject of receivers.
I don't like testing them with the DC click test, I use the beeper that is used for line tracing to test them, it is loud.
Also when re assembling a diaphragm type receiver, make sure the magnet faces are and the rim it rests on are clean. Also make sure the ring in the cap is clean, and of course make sure it is clean. Any little dirt will affect its performance.
I want to add what I did to make the earpiece work. After strapping the handset apart and looking dumbfounded at the pieces, I went back to the message board. I slowly came to accept that the phone may not be correctly wired, considering the wires from the handset were all wrapped in brown yarn. So I swapped the red and black and now it works great.
C'mon, guys, shell out some dough for a strap wrench. They aren't hard to find, and will perform miracles on handsets. I see a lot of people saying they "must" get one. Yes, you must. I have had one for years, and though I don't have the need for it often, when I do need it, I really need it, and it has never let me down.
I also have the pin type removal tool, and a special G handset removal tool - neither out-performs the strap wrench, and the before-mentioned can scratch the material of the handset.
I just wanted to underscore - a strap wrench is one of those tools which you shouldn't be without.
For the cost of one set of strap wrenches, you can save a fortune in irreplaceable handsets. Don't think about it - just do it! :)
Dave
Dave's post brought this thread to my attention. It seems to be a very popular topic so I have "sticky'd" it and am now going to merge a couple of other threads on the same topic together with this one.
Terry
What a great thread!
I just read through the whole thing and disassembled my first E1!
A small strap wrench I have had for decades and not used much, a hair dryer on low and a plastic bag...a few minutes later the stuck transmitter cap came off the aluminum! (I used a leather glove to grip the bakelite and the strap wrench on the aluminum.)
Is there a recommended material for cleaning the oxidation off the aluminum threads and for preventing future seizing?
Thanks to all for the suggestions and insight!!!
Nick
Since this is several threads merged together it is probably a little bit disjointed. However, Nick just had success with his E1 handset due to everyone's contributions including instructions & pictures so it looks like we have another happy "customer".
I am not sure about what can be done to prevent future seizing of E1's but someone here must have some ideas.
Terry
Quote from: AE_collector on November 07, 2012, 09:49:31 PM
I am not sure about what can be done to prevent future seizing of E1's but someone here must have some ideas.
Terry
For cleaning E1 aluminum thread oxidation, I use a small (2") rotary wire brush in my drill press, and then simply apply a little anti-seize compound on the threads before re-assembling the handset. I have also used clear dielectric silicone on the threads with equal success. This is the gel that you place inside your spark-plug boots on your car's engine to prevent corrosion and moisture from entering the wiring. A small tube (that will last forever) can be found for a very reasonable price at any auto parts store.
Thanks! I will hit the auto parts store tomorrow!
Nick
I agree that strap wrenches are a needed tool. Let me make a note, here, that I have two of them that I bought from Ace Hardware. They are Klein, which should be good, but in fact they are almost useless. The problem is that the strap material is a slick red plastic, and despite the fact that there are little grooves cut into the working surface, they are not the least bit grippy. They slip as soon as force is put on them! To use them, I must wrap a layer of adhesive tape or duct tape around the part to be gripped. That's annoying!
So by all means, get a strap wrench. Make sure the strap is long enough - and make sure that it is grippy. I've used wrenches with either a canvas strap, or a soft "live rubber" surface. These work well.
Bill
I got my strap wrenches from a plumbing supply place. Here is my post from a while back about them.
Re: New troll here... ***Updated with pics, 6th post in***
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2012, 09:21:11 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you still have trouble with that cap you can get strap wrenches here:
http://www.sloanplumbingparts.com/sloan-ebv-22-strap-wrench
I got two of them and have not had a handset I could not get the caps off since.
Harry is correct, the Sloan straps are great and really hold on to the caps. They are a must to own...Doug
Quote from: Bill on November 08, 2012, 03:48:56 PM
So by all means, get a strap wrench. Make sure the strap is long enough - and make sure that it is grippy. I've used wrenches with either a canvas strap, or a soft "live rubber" surface. These work well.
Bill
About 10 years ago, I was trying to take a Stromberg-Carlson candlestick apart, and I found a great little strap wrench that worked like a dream on it. It also was excellent for E1 handsets and just about anything that you needed to loosen without ruining it or marking it up.
I used to buy them in 100-lot quantities and sell them to collectors, but I haven't in years. The earliest version (the square-looking one in the photo) is lighter and doesn't work as well. The single photo is the new version that is much more substantial and lasts longer. The belt is ribbed on the inside and is Kevlar-reinforced. It doesn't stretch AT ALL, and grips very well. I have found that some rosin (from a rosin bag used in baseball) works well to make it grip when things get slippery.
If you know a commercial plumber or mechanical contractor that works with those hands-free flushing toilets and urinals, then you may be in luck. Each and every automatic-flushing Sloan valve is shipped with one of these neat little wrenches, so some plumbers collect them after each job. I have a friend that actually GAVE me a shoe-box full of them! I was amazed at how well they worked. If you can find one, try them, and you will never be without one!
I was truly amazed after reading threw all of the post or responce to this post no one until the very end asked if anyone new how to keep it from happining again (ae collector) & than someone hit it (kleenax) and said anti seize. It' true on any thing aluminum always use a small amount of anti seize the automotive and motorcycle industry learned this about 75 years ago. Do you have any idea how many v.w. porches. and any engine with an aluminum head is running around with a frozen spark plug in it , and as far as cleaning the thread I would only use stiff nylon, or run a thread chaser over them. Dennis. ???
Actually it wan't originally me who originally asked what to do to prevent future seizing. "Nick in Manitou" asked the question and I repeated it.
Terry
I recently acquired another E1 and needed to convince it to come apart.
The strap wrench I used on the previous one was not really very good and I decided to look for the Sloan EBV-22 wrenches Kleenax suggested in a prior post...
I found them at Zorotools.com
I paid $16.90 for 2 including shipping.
I just took apart my second E1 with the help of 2 Sloan strap wenches, a hair dryer and a plastic bag.
I figured that since the prices I found on the internet for the wrenches varied quite a bit, that I would point out the name of the vendor that I purchased from.
I have trouble finding it directly on the ZoroTools website, but purchased it from them after following a link through Amazon.
Quote from: BDM on September 14, 2008, 02:55:15 AM
Go easy with the strap wrench. You'd be surprised how fast things can go wrong using it. Ask me how I know :P Like crushing the aluminum, or worse. Heat it up as suggested, and go slowly and carefully!
Hello BDM.. this post is old but one of your link has somethings that I want...but the screensaver and the slide show are not in service. I mean the links are dead.. do you have a new link ?. thank you ;)
Denis sorry for the very late reply. What links are you referring to?
-Brian
Quote from: Nick in Manitou on March 28, 2013, 10:57:22 PM
I recently acquired another E1 and needed to convince it to come apart.
The strap wrench I used on the previous one was not really very good and I decided to look for the Sloan EBV-22 wrenches Kleenax suggested in a prior post... I found them at Zorotools.com. I have trouble finding it directly on the ZoroTools website.
It comes up on Zorotools if you search for EBV22, rather than EBV-22.
Bill
Quote from: Bill on March 05, 2014, 12:34:53 PM
It comes up on Zorotools if you search for EBV22, rather than EBV-22.
Bill
I just found three of them on eBay for $21.99 and bought them. I previously had another strap wrench, but the last time I used it, I found a small triangular piece which pinches the strap was MIA. I also have a handset wrench, but these are safer to use and do less potential damage to the handset.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271399734773 (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271399734773)( dead link 02-19-21 )Dave
Here's a tip that worked for me on an E-1 I couldn't budge. Not having a strap wrench, I tried using a rubber gripper cloth, but it would slip. I wrapped the cup with masking tape, then used the rubber gripper cloth. It came loose easily.