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What's the difference between a WE 102 and 202?

Started by Stephen Furley, July 25, 2009, 06:08:23 PM

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Stephen Furley

The British 706 is quite similar to the 500, as is the 300 series to the 302.  If the 202 contained an induction coil then the 102 and 202 would fit in quite nicely as equivalent models to the 162 and 232, but I think that neither the 102 nor the 202 had the induction coil fitted within them; is this correct?  If so, then what is the difference between these two models?

Going back to the previous generation the GPO standard 'auto' candlestick model was the 150, this was the model which was converted to a lamp in the Ebay item which I posted a link to on the auctions forum a couple of days ago.  Many of these were converted from the model 2 which had no provision for a dial by fitting a new base and re-wiring.  What would be your equivalent models to the 150 and the 2?

At present I'm bidding for a 150 on Ebay.  It's in good condition, and the current price is low, but I am unlikely to win it.  There were two bids below the reserve, then mine.  At present it's sitting at the reserve price with my bid as the highest,  but I think there will be several last minute bids, exceeding mine, before it ends tomorrow.

benhutcherson

The difference  between a 102 and a 202 is in the wiring.

A 102 is a handset mounting which is wired by a 3-conductor cord to a 500-series sidetone subset.

A 202 is a handset mounting which is wired by a 4-conductor cord to a 600-series anti-sidetone subset.

The handset mounting can be an A, B, C or D.

An A handset mounting looks like a candlestick telephone with the stem cut off and a cradle installed in its place.

A B handset mounting has more of a domed appearance to the base.

The C handset mounting is a wall mount design.

The D mount is the oval shaped base with the dial sunken down in it.

Greg G.

Man, I learn something new every time I log on here.  I would have just said one is round, the other oval.  But then, I'm not a tech guy.
The idea that a four-year degree is the only path to worthwhile knowledge is insane.
- Mike Row
e

Phonesrfun

Quote from: Brinybay on July 25, 2009, 07:18:49 PM
Man, I learn something new every time I log on here.  I would have just said one is round, the other oval.  But then, I'm not a tech guy.

Brinybay (and everyone else for that matter):

You are not alone.  It is a very widespread misconception, even amongst many dyed in the wool phone collectors.

For some reason, we have become accustomed to a change in the basic shape of a telephone to determine its model number.  This is not surprising, because just about everything we buy as consumers, from automobiles on down is generally that way.

If one becomes educated in telephone models from following e-Bay one will find that just about everyone assumes a round phone to be a 102 and an oval to be a 202.  Oh, by the way, it is a fact that just about the time WE was coming out with the anti sidetone circuit, it also did a redesign to change the model B handset mount from round to the model D, so that phones would be easier to hold on the desk/table while dialing.  Therefore there is a pretty high likelyhood that a round "B" body is wired for sidetone, and an oval "D" body is wired for anti sidetone.  Just never assume.

-Bill Geurts
-Bill G

Stephen Furley

Quote from: benhutcherson on July 25, 2009, 06:50:43 PM
The difference  between a 102 and a 202 is in the wiring.

A 102 is a handset mounting which is wired by a 3-conductor cord to a 500-series sidetone subset.

A 202 is a handset mounting which is wired by a 4-conductor cord to a 600-series anti-sidetone subset.


Can you confirm that in both gases all of the components of these circuits are housed in a separate box, and that the body of the telephone contains only the dial (where fitted)?

do you know where I can find a circuit diagram for each of these circuits that I could compare with those that I have for the 162 and 232?

bingster


Stephen, you're correct in that there is no induction coil contained within the phone bases that Ben listed (A, B, C, D).  The coils were located in the subset with the ringer and ringer condenser.

There were numerous desk stand (candlestick) models, and even after new models were introduced, the older ones remained in service, many for decades.  Going off the top of my head, the most common models found from the 1920s through the '40s were the 20AL (brass) and 40AL (steel), which were non-dial models; the 51AL which was the dial model; and the 151AL which was the dial anti-sidetone model.  (With desk stands, the digit "1" preceding the model number indicated the phone contained anti-sidetone capability.)
= DARRIN =



bingster

Quote from: Stephen Furley on July 25, 2009, 07:52:56 PMdo you know where I can find a circuit diagram for each of these circuits that I could compare with those that I have for the 162 and 232?

One of the big clubs here has a large section devoted to diagrams.  Scroll down the page to the sections on A, B, C, and D mounts:

http://telephonecollectors.org/library/weco/weco.htm
= DARRIN =



Stephen Furley

I've had a quick look at those diagrams;  the circuits are somewhat different to ours, but the general development seems to be very similar.

Leaving out the early wooden wall telephones, where there seems to have been little standardisation, we started with the No. 2 candlestick:

http://www.britishtelephones.com/t002.htm

This had no dial, but interestingly on Ebay a few days ago was a device consisting of a dial mounted in a holder which could be clamped around the column of such a telephone; I've never seen one of these before.

Next step, 1n 1924, was the 150:

http://www.britishtelephones.com/t150.htm

Major change in technology with the introduction of the dial, but very similar design otherwise; similar enough that many were converted from older No. 2 models.  The bellset No. 1 isn't shown, but it looked similar to the bellset 41 shown here:

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/bells.htm

A wooden box with two gongs on top, containing the bell, capacitor and induction coil.  It looks similar to American ones of he time.

Next change, in 1929, was the introduction of the 162:

http://www.britishtelephones.com/t162.htm

Totally different design, but the circuit was almost exactly the same as the 150, just put in a different shape box.  The existing bellset No. 1 was still used at first, though when stocks were used up the Bellset No. 25 replaced it, with the same components nounted on a steel plate, with a bakelite cover to match the 'phone:

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/bells.htm

Except for the shape, the 164 is pretty close to the 102.

Next step, in 1934, was the 232.  This introduced the anti-sidetone circuit.  The induction coil moved from the bellset to inside the body of the 'phone, with the new bellset, the 26, containing only the bell and the capacitor.  The new bellset looked exactly the same as the previous one, as did the telephone itself.  I suspect that the GPO converted many existing 162 telephones and 25 bellsets into the later models, as happened with the candlesticks, but I don't know for sure.  162 telephones are rare now, and this could be the reason.  The 232 can be compared to the 202; similar style of telephone to the previous model, except that the 232 contained the anti-sidetone induction coil, and so didn't need the 4-wire line cord as used with the 202.

Next step, in 1936, was the 332, which basically took the components of the 232 and bellset 26, and put them all in one box.  Almost no change in technology, but a very different style of telephone.  Compare with the 302.  The 332 replaced the old system of creating a rather makeshift combined set by mounting a 232 on top of its bellset, but the 232 remained in production for use where a separate bellset was wanted.  the 232 was smaller than the 332, except when the bellset was mounted underneath, when it became a huge, clumsy thing.  It was expected that the 332 would be used mainly in offices, with the 232 remaining more popular for residential use, but both were used in both situations.  The 232 remained in production well into the '50s, and in use into the '70s.

Nothing changed until the introduction of the 706, in 1959.

http://www.britishtelephones.com/t706.htm

This was revolutionary.  Made of thermoplastic, available in seven colours, coiled handset cords, improved circuit, including new transmitter and automatic regulator circuit, much reduced weight, adaptable to various special uses by fitting a few extra parts, very easy to work on.  Compare with the 500.

The 746, introduced in 1967, doesn't really have an equivalent over there, but it was really just a minor revision of the 706 design.  Slightly modernised shape, could take two buttons and switches rather than one, reduced size if certain components, and regulator circuit now built on the main board, rather than a plug-in assembly.  Overall reduced cost.  This was really our last 'standard' telephone.