No Dial Tone From Kellogg Red Bar Manual

[dsk]

Great observations, in a coil the winding directions may work against each other when connected in the wrong direction, a swop like the one in the drawing here may affect the function considerably.


dsk


(switch handset and resistor on the transmitter coil, to reverse the current direction in the coil)

[HarrySmith]

Thanks DSK. I will try that tonight. Let me make sure I am reading it correctly. I should move the resistor to T & H1?

[dsk]

Thanks DSK. I will try that tonight. Let me make sure I am reading it correctly. I should move the resistor to T & H1?

Yes, move the resistor to T  H1, and move the handset wire from T to B2

dsk

[HarrySmith]

OK, Thanks. I will try that tonight.

[RB]

Harry
Have you chked the resistance of your transmitter?
If it reads open, its open, and prob will not talk.

[HarrySmith]

I don't recall if I did or not. I have checked & tried so many things at this point I forget what I did!
I will try to get back to it tonight or over the weekend. Thanks for all the help & suggestions.

[dsk]

I agree, it may be difficult to be remember all details tested in a long process as this.  If the handset worked fine, and you could here yourselves loud and clear when connecting black and white to line/or battery, the handset should be proven working, if connecting red and white, and getting tone/clicks the cord are tested too. In the picture, I have tried to follow the currents as it will be when modified.  The red arrows is a way to indicate signal strength.  If we connect them after each other we see that tong arrow will be strong signal, and depending on the direction (polarity) on the last winding, the total signal will be strong or weak.

Of course it is of importance if the handset are working. It may be easier to test with a well known working handset, find the strongest signal, and then go on and look at the original handset.

To just follow our advises as what is happening if..., and then do... it is little learning, and the process becomes boring.

So why should this be working?  The battery current from the exchange goes trough the transmitter and the right winding.  The transmitter makes the current change as a reflection of the sound coming in to the transmitter. This current is transferred to the other windings of the coil (transformer), here the direction is important. 

The incoming sound signal is AC and that travels easily trough the Capacitor C and some trough the coils, some trough the receiver.  This splitting is pretty advanced, but results in the anti sidetone circuit, (you do not hear yourselves stronger then the you hear the other party).

Hook-switches and ringers are totally ignored in this explanation.


dsk

[HarrySmith]

OK. My plan was to try hooking up a known good handset next. I will continue testing as soon as I can get back to it & report what I find.
Thanks again. This is fun to learn & figure out!

[HarrySmith]

OK. I got out one of my working 302's. I took the element out of the F1 handset and jumpered the Kellogg element to the F contacts. It worked great! Next I disconnected the F handset and jumpered the Kellogg handset to the 302. It did not work. I took the element out and jumpered the 2 contacts of the element and it worked. I am not sure about the way the connections in the Kellogg handset work. I have attached a picture of my connections that work.

[dsk]

looks right, the 2 spring sets on the transmitter shall make good contact on the knives R and B. Sine I have used a Norwegian cord, I used the Norwegian color code RWB= Transmitter, Common,  Receiver 

[rdelius]

I have seen many open bussbars in Kellogg handsets.Check between both ends of handset

[HarrySmith]

The problem was the clip, it was too far open and was hitting the W blade. I squeezed it closed so it fit tightly on the R blade and now everything works properly. Thanks for all the help!

[Doug Rose]

Bring dial tone to the handset only. Rules out the handset cord, handset and the elements

Harry....so it was the handset after all the troubleshooting? That's why I like to rule it out from the start....Doug

[HarrySmith]

No, not just the handset. I had no sound at all, as in the title, I did not even hear dial tone. Which we sorted out first by moving the wires & adding the resistor. Then I had sound but it would not transmit which ended up being the connection in the handset.

[dsk]

Telephones has with feelings too
When i registered that the problem was solved I got happy 
When I discovered that it immediately was for sale or trade i got disappointed 
but after some thinking I found that it is good if someone else could use it.   

The Redbar is mostly known for its design with the red bar, but it is also extremely before its time with its plug and play system.

I really hope it will get a nice home 

dsk