Project phone Wiring Help

[HarrySmith]

I am working on a project for a friend. I have a very small wood box to work with. He wants a phone that works. I have a pile of the original parts, I think, such as dial, bulldog transmitter, hookswitch & wiring board. I have no condensor or coil. I want to use a small NE network I have a few of. I searched the library for AE dials and could not find one like I have. I need some help from you wiring gurus or a direction to the dial wiring. Thanks for you help!

[unbeldi]

Well, the dial has five wires attached. Looking at the contact piles, from what I can see, it appears the side with two wires is the pulsing switch and the other side with three wires is the pile for the ON contacts. Since it's three contacts, I assume it is a break-make type in which one, perhaps the center one connects to one or the other. It should be easy to visually determine the function.

There are plenty of diagrams in the wiring section here that would provide a model for the circuit.
It looks like your network is a 425-type, only be some other manufacturer.  Do you have a diagram for this?

You can probably follow the wiring suggestions and the diagram in this thread:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12512.0
only you will be building your own telephone housing.

A working telephone consists of three circuits.

• ringer circuit:  Ringer in series with a ringer condenser across the T and R of the line.
• transmitter circuit:  From R to induction coil primary to the transmitter, from transmitter to the dial pulse switch and from there to one of the hook switch contacts and from there to Tip of the line.
• receiver circuit: Receiver across the secondary or tertiary winding, in case of 425 across R and GN terminals while having the one 'make last' hook switch in that path (to avoid hearing the line clicking), as well as the break contact of the dial to avoid hearing the dial clicks.

What does the green rectangular block do on the network PCB with the contacts on the top?

[HarrySmith]

I do not have a diagram for the network. I do not know what the function of the green box is but that is where the L1 & L2 terminals are.

[unbeldi]

hmm.... QMM19A  wonder whether that is the part number of the green thing, or of the whole network.

A relay?  with X and Y being the coil?

Can you measure the resistance across X and Y ?
Also, measure the conductivity or resistance from L1 and L2 to their corresponding exits from the block on the other side of the printed circuit board.  You probably have to experiment a little, but there really shouldn't be more than 3 terminals emerging on the other side, if X and Y are the relay coil.

[HarrySmith]

I get an open on X & Y. The same for L1 & L2. None of the terminals on the board seem to be connected to the terminals on the box. I have attached a couple of pics of the back of it which has a number on it.

[unbeldi]

Since last night I have found that the top of this box is simply a terminal strip.  The board appears to be some model of a Northern Electric or Northern Telecom network.  I think Poplar1 may have some more info on this.
From a similar type it is evident that these terminals have no internal connections.  But it's good that your measurements confirm this.

Looking at the trace side of the printed circuit board, it does appear that there are some components inside the green box.
Perhaps caps?  There are two disk-shaped devices on the side of it, I suspect those are varistors. So, by accounting for components, perhaps the green box contains capacitors.

Thanks for the additional pics. I am learning something.

I am convinced that the thread previously quoted (here) provides much of the needed information. You just need to adapt it to the specific switches on your dial and hook switch.

Your hook switch appears as a standard simple deskstand type in which all contact points are switched together upon closure. The means that you cannot either not have AST operation, or that you will have clicks to (better not) listen to when going off/on-hook.  PS: I think there may be a spacer pad between the two middle springs, providing two independent switches. You have to confirm that from direct inspection.

[poplar1]

The QMM19A network is a Northern. It is similar to the  QNBA425E1A network pictured here in a 1981 QSQM 500 AX: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1201.msg15239#msg15239
The screw terminals are not connected to any of the network components, but are just spare terminals, like the L1, L2, G, S and T terminals on a WE network. One reason for screw terminals is for terminating the inside wire when installing a wall phone.

[HarrySmith]

OK, thanks again for all the info. I found it is a network from a Contempra, QNB425E1A. Armed  with this info I found a wiring diagram at the ATCA document repository which I have attached a copy. I took a quick look at the referenced topic on installing the network in a WE and it looks helpful. With the diagram and that topic I should be able to make some progress. I will keep you updated!

[poplar1]

                                                    ADD: AFTER GOING THROUGH DIAL PULSE CONTACTS AND HOOKSWITCH CONTACTS
With any 500-type network, the input ^
is RR and C, and the output is GN (receiver), B (transmitter), and R (common xmtr/rec). The dial pulse contacts and hook switch go between the line and the network input.

[HarrySmith]

OK, I am stuck. I cannot figure out this wiring. The issue seems to be the switch hook. It has 4 wires from it that are connected in pairs, 1 from the top contacts and 1 from the bottom contacts. They are soldered together at the terminal board. I cannot find this in any of the diagrams.
In answering an earlier question, Yes, the dial has 2 wires from the pulsing contacts and 3 from the shunting contacts. This seems strange also.
I have attached a couple of pictures to show the wiring.

[poplar1]

red line------>L2<-----------hookswitch---------->C
green line--->  F<-----------dial pulse------------>RR

receiver------>GN<-------dial shunt
receiver-------> R<-------dial shunt
transmitter---> R
transmitter---> B

[HarrySmith]

OK, here I am 4 months later. I got the parts in the box and connected. I have dial tone but that's it. Will not break dial tone with hook switch or dial.  I have studied the diagrams and info below but I am stumped. I have attached a couple of pictures below. Here is a description of my connections:

red line, dial pulse, hookswitch - C
dial shunt, dial pulse, hookswitch
green line, dial pulse - RR
dial shunt- F
dial shunt- GN
rcvr- GN & R
Xmitter= B & R
Ringer= Red line & green line

[poplar1]

Harry, line connects to  F and L2. (Or, you can connect line to L1 and L2, then run a jumper from L1 to F).
Then, the hookswitch is connected to L2 and C. And the dial pulse connects to F and RR, as in a 500.
Dial shunt is GN and R on network (in parallel with the receiver). As in a 500 and as listed in Reply #10.

Ringer will need to be in series with a capacitor, possibly larger than the 0.47 that's wired to A and K.

[HarrySmith]

I had put this project away to work on some other phones and recently found it. I pulled it out and wired it accordingly, it works! Thanks for all the help!
I have one problem, the loud click. when dialing or going on/off hook. I tried switching wires around on the switch hook & dial but it remains. What am I missing now?

[Jim Stettler]

 The shunt contacts should shunt the receiver element while dialing. I would try a varistor (sp?)across the receiver element to quiet the hook clicks. The varistor is the little bead across the receiver element on a g-type transmitter. My understanding is that it is for suppressing clicks.

Just what I would try,
Jim S.