Western Electric 302 Sluggish Ringer

[bellsystem]

Just fixed up a 302 and it's now in good, working condition - or at least acceptable condition.

The only problem I have right now is with the ringer. It's working but it's sluggish and doesn't sound very good and isn't very good. I know this isn't typical of 302s because of online videos of other 302s.

What can I do to make the bell less sluggish? I don't mind it not being loud, but I'd like the ringer to sound more normal.

There's a lot of vibrating. When it rings, I can hear a bunch of vibrating inside before the actual bells kick in. If I pick up right away as soon as I hear something, I don't end up hearing any bells at all, but just a sluggish vibration inside.

[Jack Ryan]

Can you move the clapper by hand?
Is the bias spring too tight?
Is the bias spring bent and pushing against one of the bell coils?

Jack

[bellsystem]

Clapper can move by hand but there is not much room to move it. However, I don't think that can be solved since the bells go in a fixed place...

[TelePlay]

Try re-positioning the gongs. They are drilled off center so can me moved closer to or farther away from the clapper. This is a trial and error adjustment.

Also, looks like the bias spring is in the middle of 3 positions. As Jack said, try moving it to the weakest or far right (parallel to the coil) position. Do that and try ringing the phone before adjusting the gongs.

By "sluggish" I assume you mean it works but is not striking the gongs as expected.

[bellsystem]

John - that is exactly what I mean by sluggish!

I don't know how I would reposition the gongs. Looks like they're screwed in at just that spot. So if I unscrewed them, wouldn't I have to screw them back right there?
   Maybe not? If they are farther away from the clapper, the ringer will be louder I assume?

The thing is, the clapper seems pretty weak - as if it will only move so far even if the gongs are not in the way.

Can you please point out the bias spring? I believe it's a coil (looked up a picture) but not sure which one in particular it is. A diagram would help and be much appreciated!

[Alex G. Bell]

It looks like the armature stop arm, that gentle "S" shaped thick brass wire at the upper left, is adjusted close to the metal stop just to the right of it, which would limit armature travel and ringer volume.  Bend it slightly to the left to allow more armature travel.

Remove the ringer from the mounting by withdrawing the horizontal screw between the gongs and inspect the bottom of the ringer for debris and ferro-magnetic particles stuck to the magnet or mechanism.  Be careful not to exert too much pressure removing and reinstalling it in the mount to avoid damage to the rubber grommets which isolate the ringer mount from the base plate.

When the gongs are properly adjusted the clapper is not in contact with either gong when the armature is at rest or fully operated but strikes each gong on the rebound because the flexibility of the clapper rod causes it to flex and the clapper to over-travel slightly when the armature changes direction.  This produces the greatest volume.  The clapper being out of contact with the gongs allows the sound of the gong to die away gradually instead of being quenched by contact with the clapper.

[bellsystem]

Is there a particular way to move the "S" thing? I try pushing it to the left (away from the bells) but it just keeps moving back to where it was. Seems stuck there.

I'll wait to see if I can do that, then try removing the gongs.

[TelePlay]

First, the clapper wire seems to have a slight bend in it. That could be straighted, not absolutely necessary, up to you.

The attached image shows the armature wire, the bias spring, the low setting of the bias spring, the screws that hold the gongs on with a circle showing the center of the gong (the screws are off set) and how to move or rotate the gongs to get them closer to or farther away from the clapper.

If and when you want to adjust the gongs, loosen the mounting screw about a 1/2 turn and rotate the gong closer too or farther away from the clapper and then tighten down the screw. The rotation direction for the top gong is opposite shown for the bottom gong.

[Alex G. Bell]

Is there a particular way to move the "S" thing? I try pushing it to the left (away from the bells) but it just keeps moving back to where it was. Seems stuck there.

I'll wait to see if I can do that, then try removing the gongs.

With practically any adjustment of an object which requires bending you always grasp the item to be bent with appropriately sized pliers or a special tool near the point where it is attached and twist gently in the appropriate direction (CCW in this case).  This concentrates the deforming force over a small length of the object resulting in the item "taking a set" (being permanently deformed).  If you grasp the tip of the object it undergoes "elastic deformation" because the bending force is distributed over most of its length and it recovers to its original shape when the force is removed.

[bellsystem]

The clapper wire is bent but if I straighten it it will not be able to ring the gongs. So I think it is supposed to be bent.

[Alex G. Bell]

The clapper wire is bent but if I straighten it it will not be able to ring the gongs. So I think it is supposed to be bent.

I never suggested you straighten it out.  I suggested you adjust it so the tip is a little further to the left of where it is now so the clapper can move further towards the lower gong before the tip of the wire touches the stop just to its right. 

To do that you need to grasp it with needle nose pliers near where it is crimped into the armature.

[bellsystem]

The clamper is literally almost just touching the upper gong, so I can't move it that way.
As for moving it towards the lower gong, I can try but that might just flip the problem around.

[poplar1]

AGB suggested bending the "armature stop arm" / "s thing."

Teleplay suggested straightening the "clapper wire."

2 different operations.

It looks like the armature stop arm, that gentle "S" shaped thick brass wire at the upper left, is adjusted close to the metal stop just to the right of it, which would limit armature travel and ringer volume.  Bend it slightly to the left to allow more armature travel.

Remove the ringer from the mounting by withdrawing the horizontal screw between the gongs and inspect the bottom of the ringer for debris and ferro-magnetic particles stuck to the magnet or mechanism.  Be careful not to exert too much pressure removing and reinstalling it in the mount to avoid damage to the rubber grommets which isolate the ringer mount from the base plate.

When the gongs are properly adjusted the clapper is not in contact with either gong when the armature is at rest or fully operated but strikes each gong on the rebound because the flexibility of the clapper rod causes it to flex and the clapper to over-travel slightly when the armature changes direction.  This produces the greatest volume.  The clapper being out of contact with the gongs allows the sound of the gong to die away gradually instead of being quenched by contact with the clapper.

I never suggested you straighten it out.  I suggested you adjust it so the tip is a little further to the left of where it is now so the clapper can move further towards the lower gong before the tip of the wire touches the stop just to its right. 

To do that you need to grasp it with needle nose pliers near where it is crimped into the armature.

First, the clapper wire seems to have a slight bend in it. That could be straighted, not absolutely necessary, up to you.

The attached image shows the armature wire, the bias spring, the low setting of the bias spring, the screws that hold the gongs on with a circle showing the center of the gong (the screws are off set) and how to move or rotate the gongs to get them closer to or farther away from the clapper.

If and when you want to adjust the gongs, loosen the mounting screw about a 1/2 turn and rotate the gong closer too or farther away from the clapper and then tighten down the screw. The rotation direction for the top gong is opposite shown for the bottom gong.

[bellsystem]

Used a screwdriver and the bias spring just snapped where I wanted it to go! Moving the bias spring to a "weaker" position did make the bells LOUDER. Not what I wanted, but I won't say no to that!

I'm still having the same problem with it. I'm looking into rotating the bells now. I took a video and am uploading it to YouTube now so you can see... I've got a really slow PC so it might be another half hour. I'll share when it's ready. I took the video before adjusting the bias spring: the problem hasn't changed however, the bells are just louder.

The screws holding the gongs in are SUPER tight. Almost broke my screwdriver. Now that I adjusted the bias spring, will messing with the armature thing do anything? Or am Inlet will moving the gongs?

Again, I'll post the video as soon as I'm able.

[RotoTech99]

The airgap between the gongs does indeed make a difference... The wider they are apart, the more room the clapper has to move between them.

The gongs should be close enough for the clapper to strike each "cleanly" while ringing, and when it stops for the clapper to go to the at rest position, with a slight gap between the gong it's nearest to, allowing the fading echo of both the gongs to be heard. If you are only hearing one echo, the clapper is most likely touching one gong.

Ideally, there should be perceptible gap between the clapper and the gong it is nearest to when "at rest" it wont be much of a gap, but there should be a gap there.

For loosening up the gong screws, try WD40, or Liquid Wrench, or another type of lubricant on them, allowing about 4-5 minutes for it to penetrate. The screwdriver should be as wide as the screw's slot, or slightly wider for effectiveness in loosening the screws.

Hope this helps some.
RotoTech99